Valvoline 5w40 MST vs Pennzoil Euro LX 0w30 - Passat VR6

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Originally Posted by KCJeep
Originally Posted by edyvw
VR6 is old engine, with first generation FSI technology. I would use MST in this case.
Appreciate your input. Can you expound as to why? MST is mid saps and PP LX is low saps if that has anything to do with your thoughts.
MST is Mid-SAPS and like LX meets most important spec. there, MB 229.51. That engine is developed in time when 5W40 oils were a norm in Europe. 0W30 and 5W30 were outliers. The engine is design around heavier oils. Whether PP LX work? Absolutely.
 
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Originally Posted by CleverUserName
Originally Posted by KCJeep
Originally Posted by CleverUserName
I'm sure the Ravenol SSO has a traditional additive pack. 1200 ppm of ZDDP, lots of CA, some Moly and Boron. What stands out are the extremely low pour point (-60) and low NOACK of 7.7%. There are some premium base oils used in this product. Since it's about the same price as the PP LX it seems like a better product. If this engine is really a port injected FSI as posted then this oil will work well in your application.
Those are impressive numbers it does sound like phenomenal oil. I was not leaning towards anything full saps due to LSPI concerns. Can you expound on what port injected FSI is? All I know is the VR6 is DI and it's my first DI engine thus the concern about LSPI.
I thought this engine has port injection w/ DI but it appears I was wrong. I haven't heard about LSPI issues with VW. It's primarily small displacement turbocharged engines that succumbed to catastrophic pre ignition engine damage. With that said the Ravenol stuff is superior to the PP LX and meets the appropriate VW specification in the correct viscosity. Enjoy the new car. Hope you got a good deal on it.
On these engines LSPI is not an issue. Small TGDI engines are common in Europe for more than a decade. I am not sure whether ACEA A3 or C3 oils have LSPI test, but it is not as spread of an issue in Europe as here.
 

KCJeep

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Thanks for the input. I am pretty sure at this point the factory fill is a VW 504 0w30 despite the owners manual blabber about VW 502. I wonder why? I have never really seen the need to do a UOA on a FF but now I am considering it just to see what on earth it is. Perhaps the same reason the very pedestrian 2.0 T found in most 2018 Passats suddenly takes VW 508 0w20, when its 2017 predecessor the 1.8T still used VW 502. VW trying to wring a smidge more fuel economy for CAFE perhaps? If LSPI is not a concern in this engine, the Ravenol Clever brought up looks good, as does my go to Castrol 0w40. But I am a bit hung up on LSPI concerns yet, need to read more still but several of you seem to think not an issue in this engine. banana
 
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Originally Posted by KCJeep
Thanks for the input. I am pretty sure at this point the factory fill is a VW 504 0w30 despite the owners manual blabber about VW 502. I wonder why? I have never really seen the need to do a UOA on a FF but now I am considering it just to see what on earth it is. Perhaps the same reason the very pedestrian 2.0 T found in most 2018 Passats suddenly takes VW 508 0w20, when its 2017 predecessor the 1.8T still used VW 502. VW trying to wring a smidge more fuel economy for CAFE perhaps? If LSPI is not a concern in this engine, the Ravenol Clever brought up looks good, as does my go to Castrol 0w40. But I am a bit hung up on LSPI concerns yet, need to read more still but several of you seem to think not an issue in this engine. banana
I still do not know why you are not going with Castrol 0W40? It is much better oil IMO than PP or Valvoline. Also, VR6 did not have CBU issues, so do not worry about SAPS. As for CAFE, of course, that is the ONLY reason.
 

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My only aversion to Castrol was over the high calcium and full saps which I didn't think was a good idea with DI. I have used it much in the past in other vehicles, it is one of my favorites.
 
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Originally Posted by KCJeep
My only aversion to Castrol was over the high calcium and full saps which I didn't think was a good idea with DI. I have used it much in the past in other vehicles, it is one of my favorites.
Why would not be good idea for DI? It is perfect oil for VR6. It is first generation FSI, it is not turbo, there is no CBU issues. Castrol 0W40 is more suitable for that engine than PP and Valvoline.
 
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One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that VW 504/507 oils (like DEXOS2) oils are required to have a HTHS >3.5. This is in contrast to almost all other 30-Weight oils on the market that have HTHS 2.9>3.4. Makes them far closer to a typical 40-Weight oil when the going gets tuff. Keep in mind that PP Euro LX 0W30 is an SN rated oil and thus is perfectly good for use in petrol engines. It just happens to be a very clean,extremely high VI, mid saps oil that meets other specs as well. I use it (Well Helix Ultra ECT C2/C3 0W30, same stuff) in my 2002 Saab 9-5 Turbo 2.3L petrol (185,000kms,) no smoke and great fuel economy. Regards Jordan
 
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Originally Posted by JFAllen
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that VW 504/507 oils (like DEXOS2) oils are required to have a HTHS >3.5. This is in contrast to almost all other 30-Weight oils on the market that have HTHS 2.9>3.4. Makes them far closer to a typical 40-Weight oil when the going gets tuff. Keep in mind that PP Euro LX 0W30 is an SN rated oil and thus is perfectly good for use in petrol engines. It just happens to be a very clean,extremely high VI, mid saps oil that meets other specs as well. I use it (Well Helix Ultra ECT C2/C3 0W30, same stuff) in my 2002 Saab 9-5 Turbo 2.3L petrol (185,000kms,) no smoke and great fuel economy. Regards Jordan
I was looking at the Shell Helix Ultra ECT 0w30 C2/C3 yesterday. Shell claim it's their best oil to date. I must admit I get a little annoyed when manufacturers state two separate specifications when neither are compatible. C2 required a HTHS 3.4 or less and C3 requires a HTHS of 3.5 or more. So what is it? Mobil1 do the same with the 5w30 ESP.
 
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Originally Posted by Bailes1992
Originally Posted by JFAllen
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that VW 504/507 oils (like DEXOS2) oils are required to have a HTHS >3.5. This is in contrast to almost all other 30-Weight oils on the market that have HTHS 2.9>3.4. Makes them far closer to a typical 40-Weight oil when the going gets tuff. Keep in mind that PP Euro LX 0W30 is an SN rated oil and thus is perfectly good for use in petrol engines. It just happens to be a very clean,extremely high VI, mid saps oil that meets other specs as well. I use it (Well Helix Ultra ECT C2/C3 0W30, same stuff) in my 2002 Saab 9-5 Turbo 2.3L petrol (185,000kms,) no smoke and great fuel economy. Regards Jordan
I was looking at the Shell Helix Ultra ECT 0w30 C2/C3 yesterday. Shell claim it's their best oil to date. I must admit I get a little annoyed when manufacturers state two separate specifications when neither are compatible. C2 required a HTHS 3.4 or less and C3 requires a HTHS of 3.5 or more. So what is it? Mobil1 do the same with the 5w30 ESP.
Actually there's no max HTHS for C2 but there is a min of 2.9. So you're getting annoyed for no reason at all. smile The only significant difference is the FE test.
 
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Originally Posted by JFAllen
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that VW 504/507 oils (like DEXOS2) oils are required to have a HTHS >3.5. This is in contrast to almost all other 30-Weight oils on the market that have HTHS 2.9>3.4. Makes them far closer to a typical 40-Weight oil when the going gets tuff. Keep in mind that PP Euro LX 0W30 is an SN rated oil and thus is perfectly good for use in petrol engines. It just happens to be a very clean,extremely high VI, mid saps oil that meets other specs as well. I use it (Well Helix Ultra ECT C2/C3 0W30, same stuff) in my 2002 Saab 9-5 Turbo 2.3L petrol (185,000kms,) no smoke and great fuel economy. Regards Jordan
Good point, thanks you. Also do not necessarily discard VW 504/507 oils (that also meet SN requirements) that are 5W-30 (the majority I believe), as there is a cost/benefit trade-off of higher vs lower NOACK and other important oil characteristics for these demanding European (and from other continents) engines. Fuel economy gains might be somewhat difficult to prove (0W-30 vs 5W-30) unless you have a fleet of the similar vehicles/engines accumulating in the range of hundred thousand of miles or more per year.
 
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Originally Posted by Bailes1992
I must admit I get a little annoyed when manufacturers state two separate specifications when neither are compatible. C2 required a HTHS 3.4 or less and C3 requires a HTHS of 3.5 or more. So what is it? Mobil1 do the same with the 5w30 ESP.
Quoting the ACEA sequence document, C2 requires a HTHS >=2.9 mPa.s and C3 requires a HTHS >=3.5 mPa.s. As you can see there are no upper limits on either, so if an oil has a HTHS of, say, 3.6 mPa.s it meets both of the above requirements. The trick is to then get this high HTHS oil to pass the M111FE fuel economy requirement of C2 - if it does that (and meets the other requirements of C2 and C3, which are largely the same) then you have an oil with both. It may not be in the spirit of the specs, but it is in the details.
 
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Originally Posted by SR1919
This might be another option, as it has the VW 504 approval: Mobil 1 ESP X1 0W-30
I currently am running PPL LX EURO 0W30 in a MY 2018 GOLF R. I will drain it and UOA it sometime in the late spring 2019. (I also have 6 quarts of the M1 ESP x1 0W30 which I will run the following winter). (FWIW I have UOAs, not posted, for Castrol 0W40 and FUCHS GT1 PRO FLEX 5W30, but each run only for about 4300 miles).
 
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I stand corrected! I always took it for granted that ACEA C2 was the mid SAPS equivalent of A5/B5 with an upper limit. I like the sound of Shell ECT C2/C3 but in the UK at least for an extra £3 for 5 litres I can have a Group 4 Castol Edge 0w30 Dexos 2 that meets 502 and LL04 etc. Shame it's not available in the US. The again, if I could get Amsoil Heavy Duty Diesel 10w30 in the UK I would run it in everything without a 2nd thought!
 

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Originally Posted by 21Rouge
Originally Posted by SR1919
This might be another option, as it has the VW 504 approval: Mobil 1 ESP X1 0W-30
I currently am running PPL LX EURO 0W30 in a MY 2018 GOLF R. I will drain it and UOA it sometime in the late spring 2019. (I also have 6 quarts of the M1 ESP x1 0W30 which I will run the following winter). (FWIW I have UOAs, not posted, for Castrol 0W40 and FUCHS GT1 PRO FLEX 5W30, but each run only for about 4300 miles).
Please do post those! I myself am very drawn to the VW504 oils and Trav just posted it's all he uses, that carries a lot of weight with me as well. Really want to see your LX Euro UOA when you get it as well.
 

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Originally Posted by edyvw
VR6 is old engine, with first generation FSI technology. I would use MST in this case.
In the end this is what I have decided. I already have the MST, I want to drain the FF at 2,500 miles and will run the MST till 10k and UOA. If the mid saps Valvoline holds up okay at 7,500 then I can consider a VW 504 or if I need to reevaluate back towards a good full saps VW502. I was going to run the FF till 5k but recent discussion on VW Vortex of the nasty condition of FF oil at short mileage has dissuaded me from that. Thanks all for your input.
 

SR5

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I don't know if you guys get this stuff, but here in Oz we get Castrol 5W30 LL (long life). It's ACEA C3, MB 229.51, Porsche C30 and VW 540 00 / 507 00. Link to Product Data Sheet [Linked Image]
 

SR5

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Originally Posted by SR5
I don't know if you guys get this stuff, but here in Oz we get Castrol 5W30 LL (long life). It's ACEA C3, MB 229.51, Porsche C30 and VW 504 00 / 507 00.
Typo fixed above for the Edge 5W30 LL, it's also API CF, if anybody cares. Another low / mid SAPS oil from Castrol is Edge 0W-40 that's API SN, ACEA C3, BMW LL-04, Porsche A40, dexos2, MB 229.51, VW 502/505. We also have the high-SAPS A3/B4 versions of Edge 5W30 and 0W40 as well.
 
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