Valve train noise on start up

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted by mightymousetech
When was the last time the valves were adjusted?



+1

At 189k I doubt anything with the variable valve timing has failed, 10w30 is not the right oil to run in it either even in Bama. I'd adjust the valves and try a different filter. I service a few R18s and they are silent with Napa 5w20 oil and Honda filters.

 

[IMSA_Racing_Fan]

I have run 10W30 in a 1997 Ford Aspire 1.3 for years. Guess I better tell it to stop running like new.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted by IMSA_Racing_Fan
I have run 10W30 in a 1997 Ford Aspire 1.3 for years. Guess I better tell it to stop running like new.


It's not bad for the Honda 1.8L, it just won't help anything or make any difference in it besides hurting fuel economy. The R18 with V-Tec is likely a lot different than a Ford 1.3L from 1997.

 

[IMSA_Racing_Fan]

Won't a 0-30 and a 10-30 flow the same once warmed up? Who cold starts then engages VTEC out of park?

 

[ondarvr]

Originally Posted by IMSA_Racing_Fan
Won't a 0-30 and a 10-30 flow the same once warmed up? Who cold starts then engages VTEC out of park?


Not exactly sure what you meant, but it engages on start up.

The rattle is common, there are TSBs on the problem.

There can be other causes, but many had already been mentioned, no need to repeat them.

 

[Lolvoguy]

I don't think PuP is necessary.
Even PP will give you the desired results you are looking for.

But if you can get PuP for the same price as PP, I'd say go for it!

 

[CharBaby]

I'd do the cheapest thing first. The oil should still be good but you might want to just try changing the filter. Any new filter for now as a process of elimination. And don't necessarily throw away the FRAM Ultra just yet. It may have a defective(torn/split) ADBV. You may have a warranty issue w/FRAM and could get a freebee...just saying!

 

[IMSA_Racing_Fan]

Just a mention not a diagnosis;
I did some side work for a small garage and they had a Toyota Matrix with low oil pressure which stumped the regular mechanic. I pulled the oil pan and found the pickup literally stopped up with carbon grit.

 

[CharBaby]

Originally Posted by IMSA_Racing_Fan
Just a mention not a diagnosis;
I did some side work for a small garage and they had a Toyota Matrix with low oil pressure which stumped the regular mechanic. I pulled the oil pan and found the pickup literally stopped up with carbon grit.


A good point although that Matrix sounds more like owner neglect.

 

[mightymousetech]

Originally Posted by ondarvr
The VVT systems on hondas can fail, the common result is a rattle on start up.


And when the variable cam gear "fails" it make a rattle for about 2-3 seconds until the oil pressure comes up. Very common on the K series motor.

 

[DGXR]

Originally Posted by mightymousetech
Originally Posted by NavyVet88
It taps/rattles for about 45 seconds give or take and goes away completely the closer it gets to running temp.


Anything timing chain or oil pressure related would only last 2-3 seconds.

I agree. With a 45-second duration of the noise, it *might* be piston slap. My Tacoma 4-cylinder does this anytime I cold start in ambient temps under ~40F. It quiets down after around 45 seconds and runs perfectly fine.

Originally Posted by P10crew
Ok what is PuP?

Pennzoil Ultra Platinum

 

[NavyVet88]

Picked up a new valve cover gasket and set of "better" feeler gauges yesterday. Gonna start this tomorrow if the weather holds up

 

[mightymousetech]

Originally Posted by NavyVet88
Picked up a new valve cover gasket and set of "better" feeler gauges yesterday. Gonna start this tomorrow if the weather holds up


Looking forward to the results.

 

[NavyVet88]

Well overdue update, but the last two OCI’s were Castrol Edge 0W20 and Fram Ultras and the engine has been whisper quiet since. Roughly 12k miles within both OCI’s.

 

[NavyVet88]

Update: I’ve put well over 9k miles on the car since I first posted about the issue and I haven’t heard a rattle since switching oils. It currently has PUP 0W20 in and a Fram ultra on and getting ready to change that oil soon too. Still no more rattle.

 

[hrv]

Originally Posted by Tman220
From what I understand about the R18 is that it does not have hydraulic lifters, but does have a timing chain and presumably a hydraulic timing chain tensioner. How long will it tap for? Is it a tapping, or more of a slapping from the timing chain area?

Back to the timing chain tensioner, not entirely sure about the honda tensioner, but I do know that GM tensioners will react that way when they start to get out of range due to a stretched timing chain. Considering the record the K-series has with stretched chains I wouldn't be surprised if an R 18 could wear one out by that mileage. The timing chain tensioners that I am used to seeing have an internal ratcheting mechanism, so that even in the absence of hydraulic pressure there really shouldn't be a ton of slack in the chain, but that may not be the case when they start getting out of their designed travel range.


It taps/rattles for about 45 seconds give or take and goes away completely the closer it gets to running temp.

Have you adjusted the valves??

 

[NavyVet88]

Have you adjusted the valves??

Negative.