Vail Mayor proposes $20,000 fines for trucks without chains.

[edyvw]

OK, sign me up for this!
https://www.vaildaily.com/news/i70-...is Coggin wants,no chains during a snowstorm.

Once Christmas comes, until the end of March, the probability of getting stuck on I70 towards Vail is actually really, really high.
On January 2nd, I turned around back home with the kids because of traffic due to trucks getting stuck because they did not chain up (and cars with no snow tires). Sometimes, to make a trip from Denver to Breckenridge, between exits 260 in Golden, CO, and Silverthorne, exit 205, can take 8 hours during bad storms because trucks, vehicles with bad tires or "i only drive a few times to mountains, I don't need snow tires."
They tried to pass a snow tire mandate on a stretch of I70 from Denver to Eagle, CO. However, various lobbying diluted that. The reason was 64 cars pile up on I70 Eastbound just before Golden, CO, exit 260, where grade is mostly 7% and goes for 6mls.
But truckers are the real issue. They are trying to avoid chaining up because, well for obvious reasons. But, then, it is their job. I agree here that obviously $500 fine is not doing its preventive work.

 

[cptbarkey]

Had a great time at Estes Park with a few friends in late Autumn a few years ago, sampled Rocky Mountain Oysters, had a few cocktails at the Stephen King Lodge, got lost in their 3 foot hedge maze. Coming back to Denver we waited 2 hours stuck on the road because of a Heli flight came in and rescued someone after they went over the edge, thankfully not far enough to pancake.

I cant imagine the lost time, money and productivity due to hazardous mountain roads, perhaps opening inspection checkpoints is in order, or an additional license endorsement requirement for mountain driving.

 

[JavierH19]

But xe/xem, ze/zim, hoo/haa of the law, my grip neutral rubber treads identity as metal chains. Don't be a bigot!

 

[wemay]

Just a proposal at the moment. Does this present as having traction (no pun intended) with the community?

 

[edyvw]

Had a great time at Estes Park with a few friends in late Autumn a few years ago, sampled Rocky Mountain Oysters, had a few cocktails at the Stephen King Lodge, got lost in their 3 foot hedge maze. Coming back to Denver we waited 2 hours stuck on the road because of a Heli flight came in and rescued someone after they went over the edge, thankfully not far enough to pancake.

I cant imagine the lost time, money and productivity due to hazardous mountain roads, perhaps opening inspection checkpoints is in order, or an additional license endorsement requirement for mountain driving.

When 64 car pile up happened, they calculated that the economic impact was close to $10 million.

 

[edyvw]

Jut a a proposal at the moment. Does this present as having traction (no pun intended) with the community?

Absolutely! And not only that community plus all local skiers from the Front Range.

 

[SC Maintenance]

It makes perfect sense. But it won't happen due to the walmart type trucking lobby.

Not as bad but similar problem here on I-26 with trucks out of the port refusing to yield the left lane for miles and miles and miles and miles....

Same reason passenger trains legally have priority on the track but the rail companies continue to ignore it.

 

[Pew]

10K fine to the driver, 10K fine to the company.

 

[edyvw]

It makes perfect sense. But it won't happen due to the walmart type trucking lobby.

Not as bad but similar problem here on I-26 with trucks out of the port refusing to yield the left lane for miles and miles and miles and miles....

Same reason passenger trains legally have priority on the track but the rail companies continue to ignore it.

I think something will happen. Skiing is almost 15% of CO GDP. It is by far strongest skiing industry in North America. I highly doubt they will impose $20,000 fine, but I think it will go up dramatically from current $500.

 

[c502cid]

I have mixed feelings about this. You can have California chain controls with everyone driving on wet pavement for miles tearing up the roads because some state trooper decides it, or you could just stop all truck traffic when it snows (sending them to I-80 or I-40 instead). But the Colorado ski industry has priced itself out of most normal people's wallets, it's a sport for the wealthy. Add 20% to each lift ticket and let the users and the ski resorts pay for a rail system that has been talked about forever, and let the truckers do their job. It's the Subaru's, Tacoma's, and all the DIA rental car Jeeps with all seasons causing as much havoc on the passes as the truckers, what about getting them the heck off the roads since I-70 can't handle the traffic on a good day, much less when it is snowing.

 

[edyvw]

I have mixed feelings about this. You can have California chain controls with everyone driving on wet pavement for miles tearing up the roads because some state trooper decides it, or you could just stop all truck traffic when it snows (sending them to I-80 or I-40 instead). But the Colorado ski industry has priced itself out of most normal people's wallets, it's a sport for the wealthy. Add 20% to each lift ticket and let the users and the ski resorts pay for a rail system that has been talked about forever, and let the truckers do their job. It's the Subaru's, Tacoma's, and all the DIA rental car Jeeps with all seasons causing as much havoc on the passes as the truckers, what about getting them the heck off the roads since I-70 can't handle the traffic on a good day, much less when it is snowing.

I agree with most what you saying.
Not sure about pricing out, bcs. for example I only pay A-Basin pass, $599, for some 50-60 days a year.
But, rental car industry lobbied lawmakers in 2019 to not include 3PMSF designation as mandatory. Not sure CA way is the solution, but increased fines might help with truckers.
IMO, this would be way:

1. Increase fines for truckers drastically, and increase enforcement.
2. Impsoe mandatory 3PMSF tires on vehicles during same dates as chains are required. You are right. Rental cars are as much of an issue as trucks.

 

[IndyIan]

I agree with most what you saying.
Not sure about pricing out, bcs. for example I only pay A-Basin pass, $599, for some 50-60 days a year.
But, rental car industry lobbied lawmakers in 2019 to not include 3PMSF designation as mandatory. Not sure CA way is the solution, but increased fines might help with truckers.
IMO, this would be way:

1. Increase fines for truckers drastically, and increase enforcement.
2. Impsoe mandatory 3PMSF tires on vehicles during same dates as chains are required. You are right. Rental cars are as much of an issue as trucks.

Good suggestions for the rental cars and trucks. For the cost of vehicles and accidents these days, it seems silly the rental places don't puts snows on themselves... But hey, some MBA says they save $3.42/day by not, and risking the lives of customers and public doesn't cost them anything.
As for the ski prices, season passes are pretty good still for locals, but one weekend day for a visiting family is about the same price as your season pass... At at the Ikon or Epic owned hills, then its even worse...
I just vote with my wallet and don't go to those hills if I'm not on a deep discount, and it seems Tremblant was not all that busy before christmas, so maybe other people are going that way too? For $1200-4500 per family per day of skiing and staying at Tremblant, I think some people are finding something else to do too!

 

[edyvw]

Good suggestions for the rental cars and trucks. For the cost of vehicles and accidents these days, it seems silly the rental places don't puts snows on themselves... But hey, some MBA says they save $3.42/day by not, and risking the lives of customers and public doesn't cost them anything.
As for the ski prices, season passes are pretty good still for locals, but one weekend day for a visiting family is about the same price as your season pass... At at the Ikon or Epic owned hills, then its even worse...
I just vote with my wallet and don't go to those hills if I'm not on a deep discount, and it seems Tremblant was not all that busy before christmas, so maybe other people are going that way too? For $1200-4500 per family per day of skiing and staying at Tremblant, I think some people are finding something else to do too!

CO has still a lot of independent ski places. A-Basin sometimes has at below $100 and they limit amount of passes so there are no crowds.
Daily pass at Vail etc. is insane. IfVail Resorts ever go bankrupt, which is possible, I will buy myself most expensive whiskey at liquor store and enjoy it with the most expensive cigar at local cigar shop, and maybe drive to Broomfield to Vail Resort HQ and enjoy it there at parking lot . I would not be surprised if local skiers organize celebration there.

 

[skyactiv]

Being I'm someone that actually knows the United States Constitution, a $20K fine is excessive. 8th amendment guys.

 

[c502cid]

Being I'm someone that actually knows the United States Constitution, a $20K fine is excessive. 8th amendment guys.

Consider the source, anyone from Vail. When a walk up lift ticket can be $313, what's $20k?

 

[eljefino]

Being I'm someone that actually knows the United States Constitution, a $20K fine is excessive. 8th amendment guys.

How about a thousand bucks


per tire?

Rental agencies probably want that sweet sweet last minute upcharge to get serviceable tires.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Being I'm someone that actually knows the United States Constitution, a $20K fine is excessive. 8th amendment guys.

Excessive Bail not allowed. Excessive criminal fines not allowed. $20K to a commercial vehicle in a civil fine would unlikely be ruled excessive. Max fine for littering in South Carolina is $1067 and has been forever. That sounds more opressive than $20K for no chains. I don't think civil fines matter to the courts.

However $500 is a lot for a truck driver. My guess is if they actaully started handing them out, it would have the same affect. Must be more to the story?

 

[y_p_w]

CO has still a lot of independent ski places. A-Basin sometimes has at below $100 and they limit amount of passes so there are no crowds.
Daily pass at Vail etc. is insane. IfVail Resorts ever go bankrupt, which is possible, I will buy myself most expensive whiskey at liquor store and enjoy it with the most expensive cigar at local cigar shop, and maybe drive to Broomfield to Vail Resort HQ and enjoy it there at parking lot . I would not be surprised if local skiers organize celebration there.

You realize what Vail Resorts owns? I'm pretty sure they have several full time lobbyists working on relationships with the US Forest Service, as I think most of their ski areas on on Forest Service land.

I found this map. I think the majority of ski visits are on public lands leased to operators.

 

[edyvw]

You realize what Vail Resorts owns? I'm pretty sure they have several full time lobbyists working on relationships with the US Forest Service, as I think most of their ski areas on on Forest Service land.

I found this map. I think the majority of ski visits are on public lands leased to operators.

I do realize what they own. But do you realize in what kind of mess they are?
Forest service lease most often land to all ski resorts and usually forest service is they one that determines how long season is in places that could have season well into spring. Usually it is elk and other animal migration that is key.
USFS is pretty tough to influence to extend season for example. If there is exceptional snowy April or May, they might give 1-2 weeks extra, but that is it.
Right now people who are really pissed at Vail resorts are actually rich people.

 

[burbguy82]

10K fine to the driver, 10K fine to the company.

20k seems a bit much, but, the damage that could be done is much greater than 20k, so, I guess.

I think 50/50 is a bit much for the driver. Drivers get paid by the mile right? Perhaps it should be by the hour.....I think if that was changed, we would have much less issues.