Originally Posted By: A_Harman
This is an interesting experiment, kembro2012.
Definitely out-of-the-box thinking.
Some simple suggestions:
Have you done any initial bench tests, such as pouring a quart of Canola into three quarts of RT6 to see if it mixes and stays mixed?
Maybe you could do a series of mixes ranging from 10% to 50% Canola and send them out for VOA so that you know what viscosity you have before pouring it into your engine.
It would be good to get TBN, TAN, Oxidation, and Nitration numbers with the VOA's so that you are not shocked when you get an Oxidation number of 110 on your first UOA.
Supplement the zddp to keep it at the SN max of 800ppm Phos when you get to the 50% mix. RT6 has ~1200ppm Phos, so you would get down to 600 in a 50/50 mix.
I'm doing what I can to keep costs down while still providing useful data, so a series of VOAs is probably not going to happen, though I do intend to get a VOA on the canola I decide to use for the 25% and 50% experiments. I haven't run T6 straight in this engine and will not be doing so for reasons already stated (to summarize, I'm not running a 40 weight in an engine notorious for clogged piston oil return holes, where thinner is better), so I won't be able to provide baseline numbers for a 5k or longer run with straight T6. I'm using Canola very conservatively as a top-off for my current OCI (currently at 6.25%, not intending to exceed 10%), so that will be as close to a baseline OUA as I'll be able to get. If things go well enough with this test, I would consider picking up a beater to repeat this experiment, with a proper baseline UOA from the latter of two consecutive OCIs with straight T6.
I do like the idea of the series of VOAs, but it's just not in the budget. I intend to get TBN on all samples I send in and may consider the others on the final samples for the 25% and 50% tests, as well.
The advice to suppliment the zddp is generally good advice, I feel, but it is contrary to the spirit and goal of this experiment, so I will not be ding that initially. One of the goals here is determine whether canola is a viable way to add esters into an off the shelf oil without altering the additive pack in that oil (diluting, of course, bot otherwise not altering). I'm not super attached to this engine, so if things go south, no big deal.
The oil had darkened slightly in the 160 miles before I topped off with canola and has not darkened noticeably in the 200 miles I've driven since then, so I'm going to attribute the initial darkening to the T6 breaking up and dissolving what varnish was left after my last 2 short OCIs with PP and PU+MMO at this point. Obviously I can't be sure without a chemical analysis, but oxidation does not appear to be as severe of an issue as one might think, and I do drive hard, with coolant temps in the 195-205 range for 20-40min runs, so I know I'm getting the oil temps up into the 190F range, as well. On a hotter-running engine, it's quite possible that oxidation may be more severe of an issue. Based solely on coloration, so it's not the most scientific of tests, but canola does darken rapidly when it oxidizes.
I haven't tested full-scale mixing, but I did test 2oz of T6 with several drops of canola, 1.5ox of T6 with 1/2oz of canola, and 1oz to 1oz, for small-scale simulation of my top-off, 25%, and 50% scenarios. I mixed the oils cold and let them sit for a day, then heated them in a small (on-egg sized) throw-away pan, constantly moving the oil and monitoring temperatures, first heating to 180F, then 190F, then 200F, then 220F (yes, I skipped 210F, I got impatient) holding each sample at those temperatures for 5 minutes, then returning the samples to their containers for a full day between tests (one temperature tested per day) and saw no separation. I feel like I should repeat these tests before my next OCI so I can provide pics and better details. I wasn't planning on getting this detailed initially, or I would have started off that way.
This is an interesting experiment, kembro2012.
Definitely out-of-the-box thinking.
Some simple suggestions:
Have you done any initial bench tests, such as pouring a quart of Canola into three quarts of RT6 to see if it mixes and stays mixed?
Maybe you could do a series of mixes ranging from 10% to 50% Canola and send them out for VOA so that you know what viscosity you have before pouring it into your engine.
It would be good to get TBN, TAN, Oxidation, and Nitration numbers with the VOA's so that you are not shocked when you get an Oxidation number of 110 on your first UOA.
Supplement the zddp to keep it at the SN max of 800ppm Phos when you get to the 50% mix. RT6 has ~1200ppm Phos, so you would get down to 600 in a 50/50 mix.
I'm doing what I can to keep costs down while still providing useful data, so a series of VOAs is probably not going to happen, though I do intend to get a VOA on the canola I decide to use for the 25% and 50% experiments. I haven't run T6 straight in this engine and will not be doing so for reasons already stated (to summarize, I'm not running a 40 weight in an engine notorious for clogged piston oil return holes, where thinner is better), so I won't be able to provide baseline numbers for a 5k or longer run with straight T6. I'm using Canola very conservatively as a top-off for my current OCI (currently at 6.25%, not intending to exceed 10%), so that will be as close to a baseline OUA as I'll be able to get. If things go well enough with this test, I would consider picking up a beater to repeat this experiment, with a proper baseline UOA from the latter of two consecutive OCIs with straight T6.
I do like the idea of the series of VOAs, but it's just not in the budget. I intend to get TBN on all samples I send in and may consider the others on the final samples for the 25% and 50% tests, as well.
The advice to suppliment the zddp is generally good advice, I feel, but it is contrary to the spirit and goal of this experiment, so I will not be ding that initially. One of the goals here is determine whether canola is a viable way to add esters into an off the shelf oil without altering the additive pack in that oil (diluting, of course, bot otherwise not altering). I'm not super attached to this engine, so if things go south, no big deal.
The oil had darkened slightly in the 160 miles before I topped off with canola and has not darkened noticeably in the 200 miles I've driven since then, so I'm going to attribute the initial darkening to the T6 breaking up and dissolving what varnish was left after my last 2 short OCIs with PP and PU+MMO at this point. Obviously I can't be sure without a chemical analysis, but oxidation does not appear to be as severe of an issue as one might think, and I do drive hard, with coolant temps in the 195-205 range for 20-40min runs, so I know I'm getting the oil temps up into the 190F range, as well. On a hotter-running engine, it's quite possible that oxidation may be more severe of an issue. Based solely on coloration, so it's not the most scientific of tests, but canola does darken rapidly when it oxidizes.
I haven't tested full-scale mixing, but I did test 2oz of T6 with several drops of canola, 1.5ox of T6 with 1/2oz of canola, and 1oz to 1oz, for small-scale simulation of my top-off, 25%, and 50% scenarios. I mixed the oils cold and let them sit for a day, then heated them in a small (on-egg sized) throw-away pan, constantly moving the oil and monitoring temperatures, first heating to 180F, then 190F, then 200F, then 220F (yes, I skipped 210F, I got impatient) holding each sample at those temperatures for 5 minutes, then returning the samples to their containers for a full day between tests (one temperature tested per day) and saw no separation. I feel like I should repeat these tests before my next OCI so I can provide pics and better details. I wasn't planning on getting this detailed initially, or I would have started off that way.
