Utah Supreme Court rules you don't have to give your cell phone passcode - even with search warrant

[Jdeere562]

I think I know what @Jdeere562 will say when the authorities demand the passkey for his phone.

There is nothing to be found on my cell phone. Only use it for an occasion text. Landline for everything else.

Most exciting text would have been today. Neighbor messages that her sewer line backed up yesterday. (they just installed a new sewer line on our street) Plumber said her line to the house was packed with mud. Said he will bill the city for his charges. And besides, my phone is never locked. No password required.

 

[vavavroom]

There is nothing to be found on my cell phone. Only use it for an occasion text. Landline for everything else.

Most exciting text would have been today. Neighbor messages that her sewer line backed up yesterday. (they just installed a new sewer line on our street) Plumber said her line to the house was packed with mud. Said he will bill the city for his charges. And besides, my phone is never locked. No password required.

Come on, man. I practically set it up for you. You were supposed to say, "I'm an old man, I can't remember what I had for breakfast. Are you here to help me bathe?"

 

[dubber09]

Depends. 2nd A? Quite a lot the last 2-10 years. lol

Depends on what the "right" is.

I'd think the courts somehow need to suspend Constitutional rights and be above the Constitution to do this in the first place, but then what's the reason and purpose for the Constitution to exist if it can be suspended? Don't they judges-to-be sweat to uphold US Constitution before they take on the positions? It's either chicken or the egg, egg cannot tell the chicken it has to do what the egg says.

 

[I<3oil]

I'd think the courts somehow need to suspend Constitutional rights and be above the Constitution to do this in the first place, but then what's the reason and purpose for the Constitution to exist if it can be suspended? Don't they judges-to-be sweat to uphold US Constitution before they take on the positions? It's either chicken or the egg, egg cannot tell the chicken it has to do what the egg says.

You've hit the nail on the head. Quite a few 2nd A supporters are asking the same thing, when it says, "shall not be infringed..."

 

[dubber09]

You've hit the nail on the head. Quite a few 2nd A supporters are asking the same thing, when it says, "shall not be infringed..."

I'll throw in another head scratcher - the way The Constitution is worded makes most rights applicable to any person on US soil since it doesn't mention 'citizenship' but rather 'we the people'. 14A talks about citizens and citizenship but many amendments don't.

 

[I<3oil]

I'll throw in another head scratcher - the way The Constitution is worded makes most rights applicable to any person on US soil since it doesn't mention 'citizenship' but rather 'we the people'. 14A talks about citizens and citizenship but many amendments don't.

Correct but that’s why other documents like Federalist papers and whatnot are oft included in the discussion so we can see the state and frame of mind of the Fathers

 

[Pew]

Lots of things in the US Constitution has been violated throughout our history. It does not surprise me when another one happens.

 

[MParr]

I would imagine that giving the passcode is akin to providing the rope for your execution.

 

[alarmguy]

I assume this goes for anyplace in the USA. You can't be forced to give access to police searching for any evidence of a crime. Seems like common sense to me.

 

[bunnspecial]

WRT to Touch ID, I seem to recall there being a case a while back(and I don’t remember where or the full circumstances) that at least once court had ruled it okay, with a search warrant, for police to place your fingers on the home button/ID patch. You just couldn’t be compelled to tell them which finger to use.

Since Apple at least locks out and requires a passcode after a couple failed attempts(3? Been a while since I’ve had a phone with touch, although my laptop does…) there was advice going around in the fall-out to not use the index finger or thumb of your dominant hand. That’s what most people use, so taking out the first two likely guesses leaves only one possibility out of 8 for a correct guess before needing a passcode.

Apple’s FaceID at least is somewhat more complicated than just matching to your photo. It’s actually taking a 3D “scan” of your face, so no a picture won’t unlock it. It can also sense where you are looking, and by default is set to not unlock unless you’re looking at the phone. It’s a bit picky about distance too-I’ve had issues before laying in bed without my glasses on, where I naturally tend to hold it a bit closer than I should. Like touchid, you need a passcode after a couple of failed attempts. If someone were to attempt to force you to unlock your FaceID phone, you could probably send it into passcode required by not looking at the phone, but that’s probably easier said than done

 

[nomas]

I did the face ID for about a week but I turned it off . Passcode works just fine for me .

 

[Pew]

Apple’s FaceID at least is somewhat more complicated than just matching to your photo. It’s actually taking a 3D “scan” of your face, so no a picture won’t unlock it. It can also sense where you are looking, and by default is set to not unlock unless you’re looking at the phone. It’s a bit picky about distance too-I’ve had issues before laying in bed without my glasses on, where I naturally tend to hold it a bit closer than I should. Like touchid, you need a passcode after a couple of failed attempts. If someone were to attempt to force you to unlock your FaceID phone, you could probably send it into passcode required by not looking at the phone, but that’s probably easier said than done

You know what's funny...my uncle was able to unlock my other uncle's phone with Samsung's faceID unlock. They tried the apple one and it didn't work.

My laptop can use Window's Hello face recognition to sign in, I think takes an IR picture.

 

[dishdude]

It seems that a typed passcode would be the most secure route at least roadside, that way they could not hold the phone to your face and get access, or hold your finger to the phone. Your right to remain silent prevents requiring you to give the passcode.

Face ID is terribly insecure, forcing a fingerprint it a lot more difficult.

 

[Bladecutter]

So I happened on this article while looking for something else and found it very interesting.
Utah Supreme court ruled that you don't have to provide your cell phone passcode to police - even if a judge has issued a search warrant specifically for it - because it violates your 5th amendment constitutional protection of being forced into self incrimination.

If you ever find yourself in a situation were an LEO is demanding your phone, do a full shutdown on it before handing it over.
A good number of police departments have devices that they can plug the phone into that will crack the code if your phone is in standby.

If you don't want them to access your phone, then make sure you make it as hard as possible.

 

[SC Maintenance]

If you ever find yourself in a situation were an LEO is demanding your phone, do a full shutdown on it before handing it over.
A good number of police departments have devices that they can plug the phone into that will crack the code if your phone is in standby.

If you don't want them to access your phone, then make sure you make it as hard as possible.

How would that be of any value - you don't need a password to power it back on?

Either way, I was interested in this from the due process and constitutional protections implications only.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Isn't that like what a search warrant is supposed to be for? What's next? You can't search a property because it is breaking 5th?

Thats the 4th - "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause,"

 

[Snagglefoot]

This is happening at borders crossings. It seems border guards are asking for access to smart phone info.