Using non-spec filter bad?

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FL-400S

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I found out that a Motorcraft FL-400S Taurus/F150 filter will fit on my Toyota Tercel. Instead of a Delco PF1233, ST 4967, etc. I can run about 3.5 quarts oil instead of 3 now, and the Ford filter is great quality for $2.77 at walmart. Is it bad that its not designed for my car? I might also start running it on my truck, Im 95% sure it will fit. My truck is a Toyota Tundra 3.4L V6, spec for ST/STP/Fram 3614. How crucial is it to run the correct filter? Is it going to kill my engine? I heard that it might, but I tend to think that a wad of paper and a rubber flap isnt going to be that precise anyway, so even if the specs are (slightly) wrong, its not going to matter much.

[ March 05, 2004, 02:41 AM: Message edited by: FL-400S ]
 
I don't know about the specifics of your application, but there are a lot of people out there running carefully selected oversized filters in their vehicles in order to get a bit more capacity.

The first key issues are dimensions. You have to make sure that the threads and mounting surface dimensions are exactly the same. There are times when a metric thread is close to an SAE thread size and can throw you off.

The next thing is physical clearance. If your filter located near any moving parts like suspension arms? If so, you have to make sure to have clearance when the suspension moves. Also the engine moves a little in it's mounts, so again you have to make sure that nothing is going to hit.

Does the oil filter stick out under the engine? If so, a longer filter can be much more susceptible to rock and curb damage. Again not knowing your vehicle I've no idea if this applies.

The final issue is bypass valve setting. I would want to make sure that the replacement filter has a bypass valve setting within around 30% of the factory filter and not be something 2x or .5x of the factory spec.

You might get a more detailed reply by posting the question as: "Oversized Filter Options for 19xx Toyota Tercel?".

John
 
The filter is already on and has been for a few days. Just wondering if Im doing damage. It threaded perfectly and mated with the engine fine. Not a drop leak in 4-5 days. Theres plenty of room under my hood and its not hitting anything.

Really my concern is the bypass valve setting.

quote:
Originally posted by jthorner:
I don't know about the specifics of your application, but there are a lot of people out there running carefully selected oversized filters in their vehicles in order to get a bit more capacity.

The first key issues are dimensions. You have to make sure that the threads and mounting surface dimensions are exactly the same. There are times when a metric thread is close to an SAE thread size and can throw you off.

The next thing is physical clearance. If your filter located near any moving parts like suspension arms? If so, you have to make sure to have clearance when the suspension moves. Also the engine moves a little in it's mounts, so again you have to make sure that nothing is going to hit.

Does the oil filter stick out under the engine? If so, a longer filter can be much more susceptible to rock and curb damage. Again not knowing your vehicle I've no idea if this applies.

The final issue is bypass valve setting. I would want to make sure that the replacement filter has a bypass valve setting within around 30% of the factory filter and not be something 2x or .5x of the factory spec.

You might get a more detailed reply by posting the question as: "Oversized Filter Options for 19xx Toyota Tercel?".

John
Click to expand...
 
I have a friend that used a diff filter, blew off about 100 feet out the drive with wife driving next day, made it about 10 miles to stop sign, engine sized, $1800 gone, but he saved $1 on this filter that looked like it should fit, also went on and looked good. DON'T DO IT, NOT WORTH IT.
crushedcar.gif
 
OK, so I guess I need to look into bypass values somewhere. Is there a website or something where I can look these up?
 
the FL-400S will work in place of the 3614 and has worked for me the few last year or so(Geo Metro). Same threads and gasket but almost twice the length. Per the Napa/Wix catalog, their replacement verisons (short1348/long1516) for both have the same bypass valve pressure/ 8 to 11lbs. They work just fine and after cutting umteen filters the motorcraft is a great looking filter along with the Wix except for it's much higher cost($2.77 against $5.15)
 
I looked up the correct filter for my tercel and tundra on www.wix.com . The bypass valve rating is 8-11 PSI for both. Where can I confirm that the bypass rating for the FL-400S is 8-11PSI?

www.wix.com lists "none" as the bypass rating for my 3.1L malibu. Thats odd. Oh well, Im using a delco filter anyway.
 
quote:
Originally posted by FL-400S:
I looked up the correct filter for my tercel and tundra on www.wix.com . The bypass valve rating is 8-11 PSI for both. Where can I confirm that the bypass rating for the FL-400S is 8-11PSI?

www.wix.com lists "none" as the bypass rating for my 3.1L malibu. Thats odd. Oh well, Im using a delco filter anyway.
Click to expand...
You would probably be wise to confirm gasket dimensions at the Wix site.
I get-
FL-400
Gasket 2.734"OD 2.430"ID 0.226" thick
PF-1233
Gasket 2.475"OD 2.173"ID 0.233" thick.

Many (most?) GM have the bypass valve in the engine, therefore it isn't needed in the filter.
 
I don't mean to be a nay-sayer, but are you sure you want to use the FL-400S or equivalent on a Toyota setup? The threads on the Toyota are 3/4-16, while the threads on the FL-400S or Wix 51372 are 22 x 1.5mm. In English terms, this translates to 19.05mm with a 1.5875mm pitch.

In other words, there is way too much space between the threads, but it is not apparent because the pitch is off too, making it seem as if it fits well. Actually, your threads are barely holding on, and you are risking stripping your filter, causing a catastrophic failure.

You really need to stay with a 3/4-16 thread on the filter if you want it to hold. The filter for the Jeep Grand Cherokee fits this car, but I'm not sure if the gasket diameter is too wide. The filter for the VW Jetta would be great, except that its bypass valve is 30 psi.
 
I actually removed the filter just before I read slalom44's post. I am taking the car in to get the timing belt changed at a toyota dealer ship and I thought they might look at me funny if I had a big ford filter on it. That and Im driving over 500 miles in it for the next two weeks, out of town, and I didnt want any complications by a stupid oil filter. Thanks for the thread info. I didnt know there were so many different sizes. Im dissappointed but glad I didnt do any known damage. I hear theres a big purolator that will fit, maybe Ill try that. It actually was spec'd for toyotas in the 80s before they went to the smaller 4967 that the books spec for those same 80s cars now.

Oh, that figures a jap car uses standard threads and an american car uses metric.

[ March 05, 2004, 09:27 PM: Message edited by: FL-400S ]
 
Sometimes another way to tell, at least if it will bolt up, is to look at the stamping number on the filters mounting plate, but it has to be between the same brand. When I put the oversized filter on my Contour (Fram PH16) I did some cross referencing at Purolator's site, then for the last final test, I inspected the number on the Mobil 1 equivalent of the 16 and the 8A. They were both the same, so I gained about an extra .5 quarts.
smile.gif


Granted this doesnt always work. If you compare the numbers on Frams (what I stock at work) the 16 and the 8 are different (the 43 and 8 are the same) but if you compare them in the SuperTech line, the 16 and 8 are the same and the 43 is different.

I guess it all irons out in the end for me:
PH8A PH16 PH43
5.178 3.790 4.338 Height
3.660 3.660 3.660 Outer Diameter
3/4-16 3/4-16 3/4-16 Thread Size
8-11 8-11 8-11 By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI
Yes Yes Yes Anti-Drain Back Valve

Gasket Diameters
O.D. I.D. Thk.
2.834 2.462 0.200 PH8A
2.834 2.462 0.200 PH16
2.834 2.462 0.200 PH43

-Jon
 
THE FL400S MOTORCRAFT FILTER DOES NOT HAVE METRIC THREADS!!!!! THEY ARE 3/4 - 16 AND HAVE ALWAYS BEEN!!! THE FILTER IS FOR A FORD V-6 AND FORD FOR THE MOST PART STILL USES 3/4 - 16 THREADS ON ALMOST ALL THEIR APPLICATIONS.
 
You guys are toying with my emotions!
smile.gif
Too many highs and lows in one day! lol! Use it. Dont use it. Use it. Dont use it. LOL!
 
LIKE I SAID, I HAVE BEEN USING FL400S'S FOR THE LAST FEW YEARS AND THEY WORK FINE AND WILL KEEP USING THEM AS LONG AS I CAN GET THEM FOR $2.77 EACH AT WAL-MART. THE PH3614 IS THE FRAM ## FOR GEO METRO/SUSUKI SWIFTS AND THEY HAVE 3/4-16 THREADS AND PER THE WIX/NAPA BOOK 1348(SHORT) IS THEIR ##, WITH THE 1516(LONG) BEING THE CROSS ## TO THE FL400S. THEY ALL HAVE 3/4-16 THREADS AND WORK FINE!!!!! THEY DO NOT HAVE METRIC THEADS!!!!
 
JAPANESE CAR WITH STANDARD THREADS? SOMETHING TO REMEMBER IS THAT IT WAS THE BRITISH/AMERICANS WHO SET THE JAPANESE UP BUILDING CARS-BICYCLES ETC. STANDARD THREADS WERE THE COMMON THING UNTIL THE MID 70'S WHEN EVERYBODY STARTED THE CHANGE OVER AND NOT EVERYTHING GOT CHANGED OVER. BICYCLES BUILT THERE STILL HAVE STANDARD THREADS. TOYOTA AND NISSAN FOR YEARS AND MAY STILL USE A CHEVROLET SPLINE IN THEIR TRANSMISSON INPUT SHAFTS AND IF YOU LOOK I KNOW FOR SURE THEY WERE AND MAY STILL ALSO USE THE CHEVROLET 6 LUG WHEEL BOLT PATTERN IN THEIR PICKUP TRUCK WHEELS.
 
'Sorry. The initial post stated that the FL400S filter was for the Taurus & F150 truck, and I assumed that this was true. The filter that fits these vehicles (equivalent to the Wix 51372) has a 22 x 1.5mm metric thread.

The FL400S does not fit these ford vehicles, but does have 3/4-16 threads. Therefore it will fit the Toyota vehicles. 'Sorry for the confusion.

And I agree, there won't be any problems using the FL400S filter on the Toyota.
 
Im 95% sure the FL-400S is for V6 3.0L 12V Tauruses and Im 99% sure its what my brother's '03 V6 4.2L F150 takes. Maybe its my bad that I didnt mention V6 F150. www.motorcraft.com confirms both.

[ March 05, 2004, 11:27 PM: Message edited by: FL-400S ]
 
quote:
Originally posted by ExDelayed:


I guess it all irons out in the end for me:
PH8A PH16 PH43
5.178 3.790 4.338 Height
Click to expand...
Don't forget the equivalent filter to the Motorcraft FL299, which is the same as the FL1A (PH8A), but 7 inches long! All other parameters are the same.

BTW, the FL400S has the same threads as these filters, but the gasket is slightly smaller. My wife's Aerostar takes the FL400s and I am planning on running FL1As on it, starting next oil change. I still have to measure the flange diameter on the Aero, but am convinced it is exactly the same as my Pickup which specs FL1A. Yes, the older F150s ran FL1A filters.

Wix site is nice. Only filter site that I know of that gives the gasket dimenstions.

I think Purolator's site had listed the gallons per minute for their versions of these:

FL400s: 3 gpm
FL1A: 4 gpm
FL299: 7 gpm (Wix actually said 7-9 gpm on this size)
 
quote:
Originally posted by TallPaul:
Don't forget the equivalent filter to the Motorcraft FL299, which is the same as the FL1A (PH8A), but 7 inches long!
Click to expand...
Hmm, I might have to look at this. Im due for my next change in about 800 miles.
grin.gif
 
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