Using Beet Juice on Roads in Winter

[ripcord]

I saw this article about the practice of adding beet juice to the salt brine mixture for treating roads. Are they doing this where you live? It seems like it would make cars rust out way worse since it would make the salt stick to the bottom of your car longer.

West Virginia using beet juice to pretreat roads ahead of winter storm

I can just imagine the jokes about driving while being juiced.

 

[CKN]

Utah has been using beet juice for quite some time. They "pre-apply" it and when it dries it's very visible.

BTW- That's one of the few things that would grow in Salt Lake Valley when founded in the early days.

 

[ripcord]

Utah has been using beet juice for quite some time. They "pre-apply" it and when it dries it's very visible.

BTW- That's one of the few things that would grow in Salt Lake Valley when founded in the early days.

Does it dry out and keep the salt more on the road or does it end up coating the bottom of your car?

 

[BHopkins]

Beet juice isn't used for treating roads where you live? Utah has been using beet juice for at least 15+ years. I think I've seen the treatment in Idaho and Wyoming too. I thought that most every state with severe winter road conditions, would have adopted it by now.

I have seen no difference at all in rust on my cars.

 

[BHopkins]

Does it dry out and keep the salt more on the road or does it end up coating the bottom of your car?

It dries to the road, and stays on the road pretty good. The roads are pretreated before a forecasted storm, so when the white stripes of the beet juice solution are seen on the highway, it can be an alert of a pending snow storm.

After the storm is over and the roads are clear again, the beet juice stripes are gone.

 

[CKN]

Does it dry out and keep the salt more on the road or does it end up coating the bottom of your car?

It doesn't seem to have a detrimental affect as far as rust. What can be worse than regular salt? The good thing is that it be pre applied-it dries. I mean you could do that with road salt but that gets picked up by vehicles and dispersed.

 

[Hall]

I've seen it used around here for 10-15 years if not longer. Some cities (or townships or counties or the state) use beet juice while others use salt. I'm 100% certain beet juice costs more and that's why it's not more widely used.

Major benefit is it works at all temperatures (that we see). Salt doesn't work below 20º F or so.

 

[BHopkins]

From what I see here in the West, pretreatment is huge in helping keep roads clear of ice buildup in the winter. It would be interesting if any of the states have attempted to determine the payoff, if any, in savings to the drivers, from fewer accidents, vs the additional cost of pretreatment.

 

[rijndael]

What can be worse than regular salt?

Not rust related, but vegetable based de-icers can attract wildlife to the road side, like deer and elk. Attracting big wildlife to the roadside is not what I want. You’re trading salt for sugar, so you need to make sure it’s not a lure. Some places use a mix of salt and vegetable based ones, which I think works around the problem.

 

[CKN]

From what I see here in the West, pretreatment is huge in helping keep roads clear of ice buildup in the winter. It would be interesting if any of the states have attempted to determine the payoff, if any, in savings to the drivers, from fewer accidents, vs the additional cost of pretreatment.

https://canadasalt.ca/beet-juice-vs-road-salt/

Some of the answers to your questions-

 

[CKN]

Vegetable based de-icers can attract wildlife to the road side, like deer and elk. Attracting big wildlife to the roadside is not what I want. You’re trading salt for sugar, so you need to make sure it’s not a lure. Some places use a mix of salt and vegetable based ones, which I think works around the problem.

• Reduced Aquatic Pollution: Beet juice is more environmentally friendly for waterways because it’s natural. However, there are some concerns that it might raise the water’s biochemical oxygen demand (BOD), which can impact aquatic life.

But salt is also very destructive to the environment. A study found that freshwater in colder parts of the country had a much higher saline content than in years past, attributing much of this to road salt. Higher salinity is very bad for wildlife, especially aquatic wildlife, and tends to persist for a very long time. Salt is also super corrosive on infrastructure like roads and bridges, not to mention on cars themselves.

 

[VolvoZ]

Pretty sure that beet juice is not detrimental by itself to vehicles in terms of exacerbating rust. Turns out that I have concentrated beet juice in my Ford 1220 tractor rear tires as ballast. Found that out when i was replacing the Schrader valves couple years ago. Wheels are in great shape due to the beet juice in them(rather than using a salt solution). Googled it and found a company that sells the stuff for tire ballast.

 

[Rand]

Beet juice isn't used for treating roads where you live?

No we use toxic brine from fracking wastewater... well its allowed.. not sure how much is in use.

 

[D60]

First I've heard of it. The interweb suggests Colorado has experimented with it but decided mostly against it due to water quality concerns. Apparently some municipalities can make their own decisions.

I personally hate mag chloride and wish they'd just use sand. You get broken windshields but no rust.

 

[tbm5690]

Beet juice solutions reduce corrosion...it's a natural preventative. Outside of that, beet juice reduces the amount of salt solution used in conjunction, again reducing corrosion. Freezing point drops considerably with the beet juice mixture.

 

[92saturnsl2]

Beet juice solutions reduce corrosion...it's a natural preventative. Outside of that, beet juice reduces the amount of salt solution used in conjunction, again reducing corrosion. Freezing point drops considerably with the beet juice mixture.

The city of Louisville (mayor especially, who likes the spotlight) was proud to present to the local media that this latest storm would be their first "hurrah" using beet juice combined with salt brine as a pre-treatment, along with some millions of dollars in new trucks / equipment. He made no effort to hide that those decisions were made at the advice of a consultant.

I didn't see much difference on my commutes to work the days prior and after. Saw the salt/beet(?) lines sprayed liberally days before the storm, many of them still wet on my morning 5:00am commute; tires kicking up concentrated salt solution, I loved it [insert sacrasm]. Then I watched those lines disappear as hundreds of cars drove over it and some rain before the storm washed it away.

The end result is everyone stayed home except first responders or those who chose to or know how to drive in inclement weather, same as always. This morning's 35 mile commute to work was slick in many places, same as years prior when we got this amount of snowfall. I'm waiting for the day when they find a substitute for salt, evidently beet juice isn't some sort of holy grail-- my car still looks like it went through a salt storm instead of a snowstorm.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

First I've heard of it. The interweb suggests Colorado has experimented with it but decided mostly against it due to water quality concerns. Apparently some municipalities can make their own decisions.

I personally hate mag chloride and wish they'd just use sand. You get broken windshields but no rust.

Sand is nasty, and it can even cause problems with the sewer system

 

[Elkins45]

Pretty sure that beet juice is not detrimental by itself to vehicles in terms of exacerbating rust. Turns out that I have concentrated beet juice in my Ford 1220 tractor rear tires as ballast. Found that out when i was replacing the Schrader valves couple years ago. Wheels are in great shape due to the beet juice in them(rather than using a salt solution). Googled it and found a company that sells the stuff for tire ballast.

The trademarked product name is Rim Guard. I have it in my Kubota. Apparently it has a fairly high specific heat because the lower 3/4 of my rear tires are always covered in condensation after a cold night.

 

[02SE]

Beet juice isn't used for treating roads where you live? Utah has been using beet juice for at least 15+ years. I think I've seen the treatment in Idaho and Wyoming too. I thought that most every state with severe winter road conditions, would have adopted it by now.

I have seen no difference at all in rust on my cars.

Are you sure?


According to Google:

The Utah Department of Transportation (UDOT) primarily uses salt brine, high-performance salt, and,
in some locations, magnesium chloride to treat roads during winter, rather than relying on beet juice [83]. While beet juice is used by some states to enhance salt effectiveness, UDOT focuses on liquid salt-water, abrasives, and other anti-icing agents.

• Primary Methods: UDOT uses a mixture of 23% salt-to-water for brine, which is applied before storms to prevent ice-pavement bonding.
• Alternatives: While some states use beet juice to reduce salt corrosion and lower freezing points, Utah primarily utilizes magnesium chloride (often sourced from the Great Salt Lake) and other chloride-based products for, or at, lower temperatures [83].
• Effectiveness: UDOT prioritizes salt brine because it is a highly effective, cost-efficient method for keeping roads safe in mountainous, cold climates.

While various state Departments of Transportation (DOTs) are testing agricultural products like beet juice, UDOT's documented strategy emphasizes salt brine and, in specific cases, magnesium chloride or potassium acetate

 

[MNgopher]

Beet juice alone is not an effective deicer. It needs to be blended with some other brine liquid, typically just a Sodium Chloride Brine, but it can be Mag or Calcium Chloride. It basically is an accelerant, and provides tackiness to keep the material where it was placed. It is also effective to reduce corrosive effects.

That being said, its basically a molasses meaning its carbohydrate heavy. This causes issues with Oxygen demand in the water it breaks down in, and it has the potential to increase nutrient loading like Phosphorus and Nitrogen. Like all other products, it has a place, but it is not a magic solution that cures all ills...

Disclosure - I work for my State DOT. We have used and experimented with Beet Juice, but these days pretty much prewet our salt at application with onboard equipment, and we mix our own brine at each truck station, with the ability to adjust depending on storm conditions. A former employer stopped using it on their parking lots and sidewalks when they got tired of basically tracking molasses into the carpets and hallways of the building...