I don't know if this is a new topic or not, but I can find nothing on it with my limited searching abilities. I would like to use an oil filter on my 4.0 litre jeep engine that does not have an internal bypass valve. Now I change my oil, 10W30, and filter, Wix, every 5000k, and am not concerned with no lubrication getting to the engine, due to a plugged filter etc. The jeep six cylinder engine does not have a bypass valve built into the filter housing, unlike the small block Chevy. The bypass is built into the filter on the regular filter. If anyone knows where I can find a spec chart showing sizes , thread etc for Wix filters I would appreciate your posting it. Thanks
Using a filter with no bypass function
- Thread starter JFM626
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I'm not sure about Wix but if you visit the Fleetguard site and go into the Literature heading and then the Catalog heading, you'll find a listing of all their oil filters that includes size, thread, etc. You could probably cross it back to a Wix number then if you like.
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I would not recommend going without a bypass valved filter.
You'll be hard pressed to find one in the 3/4-16 thread. There are two that come to mind. One is a transmission (Allison) spin-on. The 51410 from Wix.
Part Number: 51410
UPC Number: 765809514102
Principal Application: Ariens, Bolen, IHC, John Deere, Kohler, Toro
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Hydraulic Filter
Service: Hydraulic
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper
Height: 3.790
Outer Diameter Top: 3.660
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 3/4-16
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: None
Beta Ratio: 2/20=17/41
Burst Pressure-PSI: 325
Max Flow Rate: 7-9 GPM
Nominal Micron Rating: 21
Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 2.729 2.415 0.200
..and one is a bypass filter with incredible flow potential for a bypass filter.
Part Number: 51641
UPC Number: 765809516410
Principal Application: Nissan UD Trucks
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Service: Lube
Type: By-Pass
Media: Paper
Height: 6.601
Outer Diameter Top: 4.276
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 3/4-16
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: None
Burst Pressure-PSI: 345
Max Flow Rate: 7-9 GPM
Nominal Micron Rating: 12
Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 2.834 2.462 0.200
..but why, if I may ask, do you want to go without the bypass valve? You're not trying to simulate the old SBC "trick" (that no one ever has laid claim to for what purpose it serves) are you?? Surely not in a jeep.
You'll be hard pressed to find one in the 3/4-16 thread. There are two that come to mind. One is a transmission (Allison) spin-on. The 51410 from Wix.
Part Number: 51410
UPC Number: 765809514102
Principal Application: Ariens, Bolen, IHC, John Deere, Kohler, Toro
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Hydraulic Filter
Service: Hydraulic
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper
Height: 3.790
Outer Diameter Top: 3.660
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 3/4-16
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: None
Beta Ratio: 2/20=17/41
Burst Pressure-PSI: 325
Max Flow Rate: 7-9 GPM
Nominal Micron Rating: 21
Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 2.729 2.415 0.200
..and one is a bypass filter with incredible flow potential for a bypass filter.
Part Number: 51641
UPC Number: 765809516410
Principal Application: Nissan UD Trucks
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Service: Lube
Type: By-Pass
Media: Paper
Height: 6.601
Outer Diameter Top: 4.276
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 3/4-16
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: None
Burst Pressure-PSI: 345
Max Flow Rate: 7-9 GPM
Nominal Micron Rating: 12
Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 2.834 2.462 0.200
..but why, if I may ask, do you want to go without the bypass valve? You're not trying to simulate the old SBC "trick" (that no one ever has laid claim to for what purpose it serves) are you?? Surely not in a jeep.
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Canton filters do not have a bypass and come in 3/4-16. Is 15 or 45 GPM good enough flow?
Yes, essentially that is what I am attempting to do. on every small block chevrolet I have owned, I have pluged the by pass function. I want all my oil filtered, especially at startup. I have never bulged a filter with this modification. What would be your reasoning for not doing this on my Jeep.
My thought process (if its shorted out let me know) goes like this. The bypass valve is there for use at cold start when the oil is thick(er) and in the event the filter becomes plugged. As a result all the oil is not being filtered at start up. In order for all the oil to be filtered there can be no bypass valve. Without the bypass valve, all the oil would have to go through the filter, before going to the engine internals etc.
The oil pump in the engine has a pressure relief valve that dumps oil back into the pan at about 75psi; so this is the pressure that I might initially expect to see at the filter with a cold engine. The specifications for the oil pump show a normal rating up to that 75psi. To me this would mean any filter built for the engine should be able to withstand 75psi without a problem.
I change my oil religiously every 5,000 kilometres with 10w30 oil, so filter plugging would not be an issue.
My thought process (if its shorted out let me know) goes like this. The bypass valve is there for use at cold start when the oil is thick(er) and in the event the filter becomes plugged. As a result all the oil is not being filtered at start up. In order for all the oil to be filtered there can be no bypass valve. Without the bypass valve, all the oil would have to go through the filter, before going to the engine internals etc.
The oil pump in the engine has a pressure relief valve that dumps oil back into the pan at about 75psi; so this is the pressure that I might initially expect to see at the filter with a cold engine. The specifications for the oil pump show a normal rating up to that 75psi. To me this would mean any filter built for the engine should be able to withstand 75psi without a problem.
I change my oil religiously every 5,000 kilometres with 10w30 oil, so filter plugging would not be an issue.
The reason people around here are not very open to this idea is someone on here a few years ago collapsed a filter on a SBC with a plugged bypass and cold oil. The danger isnt bulging the filter, but smooshing the actual filter element. The internals collapsed and sent pieces of the filter into the engine, which plugged passages and caused general havok. The filter was sent to the manufacturer who stated, IIRC, the differential pressure was over 70psi to cause that damage, and they would not warranty it or the engine. Personally, I see no reason to do this. The bypass may open for a second when the engine first starts, and thats it as long as the filter does not plug.
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The bypass is there for a reason. On startup you want oil to get to the bearings as fast as possible, no matter what. If you really think you know more than the engineers and don't want it to open when the manufacturer said, try one that opens at a higher pressure.
Here are a few of the Donaldson choices in a 3/4-16 thread
Here are a few of the Donaldson choices in a 3/4-16 thread
I've seen that happen to hydraulic filters, on Cat bulldozers when the company I work for decided to save money by using a different brand then "CAT". The filter collapsed inward but did not cause damage as the element itself did not break apart. When we changed back to "CAT" the problem disappeared. Now as I recall this occurred first in the Fall, and as we do a complete service every 250 hours, it would have been a little more then a month before we found the problem and another month or so before we changed back to OEM filters. The operator was the same on each occasion. So by the time we changed back, the ambient temperature would have been below freezing. The conclusion we formed was that the non OEM filters were not built to the standards that the OEM filters were, and as the operator had not changed, his procedures for warm up were the same, the fault lay in the filter construction.
I fully understand that any damage caused to my engine would be my own responsibility. Jeep 4.0 litre engine oil pumps have an internal relief of 75psi. Most filters for my Jeep have a burst pressure of around 300psi +/-; so blowing the filter apart is not a problem.
Your point about an internal collapse is very valid, and is certainly a point in favour of not omitting a bypass valve. Thank you for your advice.
I fully understand that any damage caused to my engine would be my own responsibility. Jeep 4.0 litre engine oil pumps have an internal relief of 75psi. Most filters for my Jeep have a burst pressure of around 300psi +/-; so blowing the filter apart is not a problem.
Your point about an internal collapse is very valid, and is certainly a point in favour of not omitting a bypass valve. Thank you for your advice.
Thank you for the chart,it certainly gives me a place to start. I can see a few filters in there that I will check into.
I for one value highly the work that engineers perform, and I certainly would not assume to know more then they do in any of their chosen fields. However in this case,I believe engineers design for a worst case scenario in which for some reason the filter becomes plugged. The lubrication of the engine takes precedent in this case and they have foreseen this possibility by providing a bypass valve. Trying one with a higher cracking pressure is also a good idea, one which I will look into as well. Thank you.
I for one value highly the work that engineers perform, and I certainly would not assume to know more then they do in any of their chosen fields. However in this case,I believe engineers design for a worst case scenario in which for some reason the filter becomes plugged. The lubrication of the engine takes precedent in this case and they have foreseen this possibility by providing a bypass valve. Trying one with a higher cracking pressure is also a good idea, one which I will look into as well. Thank you.
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Quote:
on every small block chevrolet I have owned, I have pluged the by pass function. I want all my oil filtered, especially at startup.
Maybe you know who first came up with it. So far, no one can traced it to Grumpy (genius engineer) or whomever.
This may work with a sieve of a filter like the Fram HP line. They're like a trans filter ..big chunks only.
Let's ponder this for a moment. Not everyone cuts open their filters. Suppose you breach the media and drive around for xxx miles with no filtration??
You have to ask yourself, do Fords or Mopars fatigue faster than SBC's that are raced? Most bracket racers that I know are refreshing their engines every 3 seasons. Occasionally something breaks ..and a filter would never have altered that outcome.
In real use, I don't see a SBC lasting longer than a SBF or Mopar V8.
I can see absolutely no upside to this alteration. If you went to a dual remote system and used Ford filters, you could probably block off the OEM bypass setup and see no bypass activity while having a safety margin.
The bypass valve and pressure relief valve in your oil pump work in concert with each other.
on every small block chevrolet I have owned, I have pluged the by pass function. I want all my oil filtered, especially at startup.
Maybe you know who first came up with it. So far, no one can traced it to Grumpy (genius engineer) or whomever.
This may work with a sieve of a filter like the Fram HP line. They're like a trans filter ..big chunks only.
Let's ponder this for a moment. Not everyone cuts open their filters. Suppose you breach the media and drive around for xxx miles with no filtration??
You have to ask yourself, do Fords or Mopars fatigue faster than SBC's that are raced? Most bracket racers that I know are refreshing their engines every 3 seasons. Occasionally something breaks ..and a filter would never have altered that outcome.
In real use, I don't see a SBC lasting longer than a SBF or Mopar V8.
I can see absolutely no upside to this alteration. If you went to a dual remote system and used Ford filters, you could probably block off the OEM bypass setup and see no bypass activity while having a safety margin.
The bypass valve and pressure relief valve in your oil pump work in concert with each other.
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I'll share a could have been tragic story. Before I got here, I was going through the Jeg's catalog. Saw the Chevy dual remote. I said "Hmmm..you can get chevy filters in the BIG SIZE", not realizing you could do that with Ford's too.
I even had the hoses mismatched for a bit. Good thing that there was no ADBV on the filters.
If you want to do something trick, and this is a Wrangler, get the right angle adapter and figure how to put a bigger 51776 filter on it. It will already fit on the Cherokee if that's what you have.
I even had the hoses mismatched for a bit. Good thing that there was no ADBV on the filters.
If you want to do something trick, and this is a Wrangler, get the right angle adapter and figure how to put a bigger 51776 filter on it. It will already fit on the Cherokee if that's what you have.
Quote:
The bypass valve and pressure relief valve in your oil pump work in concert with each other.
Not really. The filter's bypass valve only operates based on the PSID across the filter media ... regardless of what the oil pump's pressure relief valve is doing.
The bypass valve and pressure relief valve in your oil pump work in concert with each other.
Not really. The filter's bypass valve only operates based on the PSID across the filter media ... regardless of what the oil pump's pressure relief valve is doing.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Sorry, I don't have time for you to ultimately agree with me for the 24th time, Soupy.
Is this like a recurring fever with you? You're no longer in remission.
.... I'm obviously NOT agreeing with you, if you didn't notice.
A filter's bypass valve works independently of the oil pump's pressure relief valve. All the filter's bypass valve cares about is the PSID across the filter media.
A filter could go into bypass mode if the pump is relief or not ... doesn't matter.
Sorry, I don't have time for you to ultimately agree with me for the 24th time, Soupy.
Is this like a recurring fever with you? You're no longer in remission.
A filter's bypass valve works independently of the oil pump's pressure relief valve. All the filter's bypass valve cares about is the PSID across the filter media.
A filter could go into bypass mode if the pump is relief or not ... doesn't matter.
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