Useless Appendage Theory in Question -- Icky Autopsy Photos Included

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One of the interesting ideas I've heard here on BITOG is the theory that in modern, clean running engines, the oil filter is going the way of the human appendix -- it's still there, but it does not really do anything.

Well, I just had to do a little digging for myself. The oil filter in the pics below was removed from my car's Nissan/Infiniti VQ35 series V-6. The car has only 8k miles on it. I made the switch to syn (GC) back at 6k miles. My intent is to use this fill as an experiment. I ran this filter for the first 2k, a Mobil-1, and have now put on a same-sized K&N. I decided to go from max filtration to max flow, to see if it had any effect on a hot idle knocking/rapping sound I hear occasionally.

Anyway, here's an overall look at what I did:
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Looking into the can from about this view, after removing the element, I became alarmed when I noticed a large amount of metal flakes floating in the oil that had been on the dirty side, thank goodness:
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It's hard to pick up in a photo, but here's a closer view. What you see (white specks on oil) are the flakes that are near the surface of the oil. The deeper ones don't show.
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I also found at least a half dozen large shards of metal like the one inside the red circle, throughout the dirty side of the element.
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Finally, here's a shot that tries to capture the very noticeable difference between the clean side and the dirty sides of the filter. Again, it's harder to see here than it is in "real life." And this filter has been in service for only 2k miles.
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While I fully realize that my engine is still concluding its break in (I sure hope that's why there's all this crud in my filter!), I'm still amazed at the amount of stuff I found in this relatively short-service filter. I certainly would not want all this stuff getting back into my engine. In my mind at least, the "useless appendage" theory is fading fast. Any thoughts on this???
 
Of course, this stuff would never show up in a UOA as these metals do not really become dissolved in the oil and visible through spectroscopy.

I think one of the next good 'innovations' in terms of cars, now that oil life monitoring systems are prevalent, should be filter life monitoring. It should't be very hard to monitor the PSI differential between inlet and outlet of a filter assembly, and then to make a determination of the state of the filter through that data. If the pressure differential is too high, then a lamp on the dashboard, or message, 'service oil filter soon' should appear.

This would eliminate massive amounts of waste and would easily pay for itself over the life of an engine in terms of reduced maintenance costs and early detection of filter failure.
 
ekpolk, I've been cutting open filters for quite a while now and let me just say I came to the same conclusion a long time ago.

If you want to see some of the finer stuff the filter traps, get yourself a magnetic drain plug, or as I did, epoxy a neodymium magnet to your drain plug.
 
Great pictures ekpolk!

Oil change interval is getting longer, I wonder if filters need to be changed in between.

At what point is the filter so loaded with crud that the by-pass valve kicks in and unfiltered oil is being circulated?

Any thoughts?
 
quote:

Originally posted by ekpolk:
One of the interesting ideas I've heard here on BITOG is the theory that in modern, clean running engines, the oil filter is going the way of the human appendix -- it's still there, but it does not really do anything.

Well, I just had to do a little digging for myself. The oil filter in the pics below was removed from my car's Nissan/Infiniti VQ35 series V-6. The car has only 8k miles on it. I made the switch to syn (GC) back at 6k miles. My intent is to use this fill as an experiment. I ran this filter for the first 2k, a Mobil-1, and have now put on a same-sized K&N. I decided to go from max filtration to max flow, to see if it had any effect on a hot idle knocking/rapping sound I hear occasionally.


You have found how why the arguments that oil filters are a useless appendage aren't valid.

Engines are pretty robust and forgiving over the short (under 100 k mile) term. Your pictures illustrate very clearly why filters are necessary. There is also a bunch of crud buried in your filter
element that is to small to be seen without a good magnifier.

I doubt you will notice any reduction in noise with your filter switch.

Hot idle is the lowest, thinest flow through the filter. The most restrictive filter on the market shouldn't be causing you any noticeable restriction under those conditions.

BTW, as a person engaged in a profession where words mean a lot, you should appreciate the fact that filters don't flow, they restrict.
 
Ugly3, you continue to point to anomalies as if that somehow proves something. Did it ever occur to you that maybe those VW boxer 4-bangers were designed to run without a filter? And maybe because of their design, they couldn't be made efficient enough to be cleaned up to pass modern emission standards and thus are no longer being used in the modern world?
rolleyes.gif
 
428Z06 - Did it ever occur to you that maybe those VW boxer 4-bangers were designed to run without a filter? And maybe because of their design, they couldn't be made efficient enough to be cleaned up to pass modern emission standards and thus are no longer being used in the modern world?

Actually, I thought that selling 791,000 units in 1974 and dropping to 441,000 units in 1975 had more to do with the demise of the bug.
 
quote:

Originally posted by XS650:
{snip}
BTW, as a person engaged in a profession where words mean a lot, you should appreciate the fact that filters don't flow, they restrict.


Oh come on now XS, it is possible to be sufficiently hyperprecise that one's intended meaning gets swallowed up in the attempt to be precise. I guess to be perfectly precise, one would have to say that oil filters (really any filter) neither flows nor restricts completely, or it would fail as a filter. Rather, it does both. A filter restricts flow to some degree as it performs its designed function.

My point, however, is actually obscured by overprecision. I was trying to indicate that I selected two filters that were as far apart on the continuum of maximum restriction versus minimal restriction as I could find. M1 and K&N seemed a good choice to me.

And as a member of the legal profession, I'm painfully aware of how much we irritate the rest of the world in our frequent attempts to be exactly precise with language, and often achieve the exact opposite -- complete obscurity.
cheers.gif
 
quote:

Originally posted by pitzel:
Of course, this stuff would never show up in a UOA as these metals do not really become dissolved in the oil and visible through spectroscopy.

Exactly that's why posting UOA's of cars without filters don't do anything. If filter's were made to filter out small particles like those that show up in UOAs, then UOAs would be useless.

Ugly3 make an argument for no filters without point to a UOA study.

-T
 
quote:

Originally posted by Roger:
Those flakes aren't from the inside of the filter canister as you cut it open, are they? Just asking. They are big.

No, they're not. The pipe cutter I used employs turning cutting wheels, it's not a saw type cutter. Unfortunately, the pictures could not convey the true amount of particles. It looked like a liquid version of brown metallic paint. What you saw was maybe 5% of the particles visible when you shine a flashlight down in there.
 
1> Those flakes are much too large to fit within the moving parts' clearances.

2> Can anyone say with certainty that the flakes weren't the result of cutting the cannister open? (And, yeah, if that were the case, they would've been confined to the dirty side of the filter.)

The Bug's demise in the U.S. was not the result of the engine not being equipped with an oil filter, nor would that fact have resulted in the engine being uncertifiable for emissions reasons. The fact that it was air-cooled did contribute, though. (Later Vee-Dub vans and Porsches did rely on liquid cooled cylinder heads to equalize combustion chamber temperatures.) Another reason the Bug got the axe (in addition to the previously mentioned sales drop) was that it couldn't have been safety certified for crash worthiness without gaining a good deal of weight in the process - putting an already taxed power plant under further strain. Even at that, it's still not uncommon to see a VW Bugs and Bug-powered trikes chugging merrily along on highways. Most often without oil filters. Sooner or later (I'm betting sooner.) some upscale European make will ship its cars sans oil filters. One of 'em already elliminated the fallback position of an oil dipstick.
 
T-Keith - Ugly3 make an argument for no filters without point to a UOA study.

I am not trying to make a case either for or against the use of oil filters. What I found interesting was that 20,000,000 cars could run millions upon millions of miles wihout oil filters suggesting that while oil filters may be helpful maybe they are not as critical as one might think. Just something to think about to get some perspective.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Ugly3:

...... Just something to think about to get some perspective. [/QB]

perspective? what a concept!

A bunch of theologians discussing ad nauseum re: the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin are just as unlikely to listen to any argument that states there are no angels.

Not that I necessarily agree with the point of not needed a filter, for me they are too simple a means to provide a relatively high degree of protection against what may be a diminishing yet still very real source of damage. IE, cheap insurance.

I do not believe they are worth the angst that some here burden themselves with, but, I have been around too long to know that it is pointless to expect people to not do so.

[ November 22, 2004, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: kenw ]
 
quote:

Originally posted by kenw:
A bunch of theologians discussing ad nauseum re: the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin are just as unlikely to listen to any argument that states there are no angels.

We do get silly sometimes, but that's part of the fun.
grin.gif
 
quote:

Originally posted by 427Z06:

quote:

Originally posted by kenw:
A bunch of theologians discussing ad nauseum re: the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin are just as unlikely to listen to any argument that states there are no angels.

We do get silly sometimes, but that's part of the fun.
grin.gif


amen!

as long as we recognize it as fun, alas, i fear many do not.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Ugly3:
...hat I found interesting was that 20,000,000 cars could run millions upon millions of miles wihout oil filters...

Is it even proper to say they didn't have oil filters? They had a screen that served that purpose that were suppose to be removed, cleaned and put back in. Wonder what the ISO 16889 rating of that screen is.
grin.gif
 
quote:

Originally posted by Ray H:
The Bug's demise in the U.S. was not the result of the engine not being equipped with an oil filter, nor would that fact have resulted in the engine being uncertifiable for emissions reasons.

Who said the Bug's demise in the U.S. was the result of the engine not being equipped with an oil filter?

Although I still contend that the original design traded efficiency for durability, simplicity and the cost to manufacture. And yes maybe slow sales added to their demise, but I know I read more than once that the difficulty to get those engines to pass emission standards was another reason they decided to can them.
 
Great photos, ekpolk! The color difference alone between the "chocolate" clean side and "dark coffee" dirty side surprised me, a clear example of particle and/or soluble entrapment.

"1> Those flakes are much too large to fit within the moving parts' clearances."
True, but wedging a dime between two hypothetical spinning cams can nonetheless f--- them up, even if the dime isn't successfully drawn into the gap. And the oil pump gears would be repeatedly vulnerable to metal chunks of all sizes if no filter were present.
 
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