Used BMW

[borgward]

I am considering buying a new car (Mazda3) or used BMW. I began thinking BMW as a friend has a mid 80's model that still runs well after several hundred thousand miles. Also front longitudinal motor, manual trans and rear wheel drive. I am considering 2 or 3 litre models. I know that some models and years had issues. The overheating issue that was addressed by better placement of the heating sensor. Cylinder wear issue that was finally addressed, and the problematic multi part flywheel. I would like to know which years and models to steer clear of. Please recommend BMW forum.

 

[Eddie]

Much as I loved to drive BMWs, I would be very careful about repair costs on high mileage models. Ed

 

[fdcg27]

There are some models that are notable for their durability and reliability.
Your friend has such a car as do I.
There are other models that are very much shop queens.
There are some good BMW boards out there. Google the topic and see what you find. I can't remember the forum I registered on for advice when I had settled on a four cylinder BMW as my ragtop of choice. I learned what to look for as well as what to avoid in the e30 and e36. I found a good deal on a 105K e36 and have had the car for six years and 53K now with very little trouble.
If you want and need a gas and go daily driver, buy the Mazda.
If you want an entertaining second or third car, check out the BMW boards and see what you think. There are some models that have known, serious cooling system problems that are easily remedied if you are proactive. There are dual-mass flywheels on many of these cars and there are also retrofit kits using conventional parts. The only cylinder wear issues I've heard of involve only certain engines over certain years where the cylinder finish was not suited to higher sulfur US fuel. No real fix for this if one happens to own one of these cars. It's not an issue with older BMWs like mine.
Do not buy an old BMW with the thought that it can be your only daily driver. Mine probably could be, but I always have something else on hand to get to work with, although my old e36 has never failed me.

 

[Dave Hess]

A new Mazda3 with warranty is a MUCH better deal.

 

[jeepman3071]

I'd also love to own a BMW. I have friends with them who love them and build them. With that said, buying a used one would scare me. BMWs are similar to Jeeps. They need maintenance. Perform all needed maintenance and they are great cars, neglect maintenance and you will pay dearly (even more with the BMW). If you can find one with all the service records then I'd say it wouldn't be a bad buy if you can wrench on them yourself. Parts and labor at the dealer is insane. I do all the work on my friend's 2006 325xi E90 sedan. I can do an oil change on it with Castrol Syntec 0w40 for around 40 bucks. The dealer charges $150. If you can fix it yourself, they are worth it. If you go to the dealer for everything, then you will be spending more than the car is worth to service it.

Reliability of these cars really depends on how it was maintained. Older cars will break a bit more, just because they are old. They are less complex than the newer ones, so fixing them will be a bit easier. The newer ones might not have as many little maintenance items go wrong, but when they do break it gets expensive and complex to diagnose. My friend's E90 needed the electric water pump replaced. That was an $800 repair and the car only had ~60k miles on it.

Stay away from cars with turbos and modified cars. I've seen a few e46 generation cars on Craigslist for pretty cheap that just need tires and a little maintenance. Might be worth picking up one of those for a few thousand bucks to wrench on and see how you like it. That way if it becomes a total nightmare you are only out a few grand.

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted By: borgward
I am considering buying a new car (Mazda3) or used BMW. I began thinking BMW as a friend has a mid 80's model that still runs well after several hundred thousand miles. Also front longitudinal motor, manual trans and rear wheel drive. I am considering 2 or 3 litre models. I know that some models and years had issues. The overheating issue that was addressed by better placement of the heating sensor. Cylinder wear issue that was finally addressed, and the problematic multi part flywheel. I would like to know which years and models to steer clear of. Please recommend BMW forum.


What model are you looking at? What year range? The "issues" you list are from some fairly old models, specifically the cylinder wear issue. That was resolved almost immediately and if you manage to find a car that still has a Nikasil block, BMW will still replace it under the recall.

Years and models to steer clear of... Any 2002-2008 with a V8, and any 2009+ with a V8 that hasn't had the Customer Care Package performed.

Best practice, if you're seriously considering a used BMW, is to scrutinize the owner and the service records. ALWAYS have the car looked over by a competent shop, even if it is being sold CPO by a dealer.

When you find some you are interested in, make a new thread or post the ads here in this thread so we may scrutinize them, as every car is unique in its features and options. There are certain "indicators" to watch for but these vary by model and engine/transmission.

Oh, and ignore the naysayers. There are a ton of people here that take any opportunity to bash a German vehicle, and believe that the only car worth while is a gold/beige Toyota that will put you to sleep driving and never need attention. The BMW will need more attention than a Mazda, but is worlds better when it comes to performance and enjoyment, at least in my opinion.

 

[Eddie]

Unless you IN Love with that BMW, buy the new Mazda and sleep well. Ed

 

[Silverado12]

Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Originally Posted By: borgward
I am considering buying a new car (Mazda3) or used BMW. I began thinking BMW as a friend has a mid 80's model that still runs well after several hundred thousand miles. Also front longitudinal motor, manual trans and rear wheel drive. I am considering 2 or 3 litre models. I know that some models and years had issues. The overheating issue that was addressed by better placement of the heating sensor. Cylinder wear issue that was finally addressed, and the problematic multi part flywheel. I would like to know which years and models to steer clear of. Please recommend BMW forum.


What model are you looking at? What year range? The "issues" you list are from some fairly old models, specifically the cylinder wear issue. That was resolved almost immediately and if you manage to find a car that still has a Nikasil block, BMW will still replace it under the recall.

Years and models to steer clear of... Any 2002-2008 with a V8, and any 2009+ with a V8 that hasn't had the Customer Care Package performed.

Best practice, if you're seriously considering a used BMW, is to scrutinize the owner and the service records. ALWAYS have the car looked over by a competent shop, even if it is being sold CPO by a dealer.

When you find some you are interested in, make a new thread or post the ads here in this thread so we may scrutinize them, as every car is unique in its features and options. There are certain "indicators" to watch for but these vary by model and engine/transmission.

Oh, and ignore the naysayers. There are a ton of people here that take any opportunity to bash a German vehicle, and believe that the only car worth while is a gold/beige Toyota that will put you to sleep driving and never need attention. The BMW will need more attention than a Mazda, but is worlds better when it comes to performance and enjoyment, at least in my opinion.


I'm a "naysayer" who has had some experience with some friends and a niece who had the misfortune of owning a BMW. I heard horror stories of $300+ sensors to $300+ battery changes (because the computer has to be set) to "[censored] thing always in the shop and have to catch a ride to work", etc. The cars are overly complicated and should be avoided unless you buy it new and get the extended warranty. Anyone concerned about cost should avoid this product. An American car will be cheaper and more reliable in the long run ,but if you just have to have an import, buy a Japanese car.

 

[borgward]

I do my own wrench work, oil changes. I understand BMW parts are easy to get and not outrageously expensive. Is that true for newer models? No way would I go the Mercedes route. I looke under the hood of new Mazda3, and it looked very difficult to do any repairs, like water pump, oil seals.

I find the number of BMW series bewildering. I don't really know what to look for. I don't need and can't afford high performance models, but don't want something sluggish either. I am guessing 1.8 litre models are lacking in bottom end grunt. To give you an idea of my preferences, I need something I can put my bass amp head, cabinet and Bass into trunk area. I am currently driving a 2013 Fiesta SE which is fun to drive, but find the build quality a bit lacking. My other car is a 99 Mercury Tracer my wife passed on to me. Still looks new after 200,000 miles. More bottom end grunt and better mileage than the Fiesta. Previous to that has a 1972 Datsun 1200 Coupe that I put 600,000 + miles on and a new TR4A IRS that I loved until it was rammed while parked.

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted By: Silverado12
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Originally Posted By: borgward
I am considering buying a new car (Mazda3) or used BMW. I began thinking BMW as a friend has a mid 80's model that still runs well after several hundred thousand miles. Also front longitudinal motor, manual trans and rear wheel drive. I am considering 2 or 3 litre models. I know that some models and years had issues. The overheating issue that was addressed by better placement of the heating sensor. Cylinder wear issue that was finally addressed, and the problematic multi part flywheel. I would like to know which years and models to steer clear of. Please recommend BMW forum.


What model are you looking at? What year range? The "issues" you list are from some fairly old models, specifically the cylinder wear issue. That was resolved almost immediately and if you manage to find a car that still has a Nikasil block, BMW will still replace it under the recall.

Years and models to steer clear of... Any 2002-2008 with a V8, and any 2009+ with a V8 that hasn't had the Customer Care Package performed.

Best practice, if you're seriously considering a used BMW, is to scrutinize the owner and the service records. ALWAYS have the car looked over by a competent shop, even if it is being sold CPO by a dealer.

When you find some you are interested in, make a new thread or post the ads here in this thread so we may scrutinize them, as every car is unique in its features and options. There are certain "indicators" to watch for but these vary by model and engine/transmission.

Oh, and ignore the naysayers. There are a ton of people here that take any opportunity to bash a German vehicle, and believe that the only car worth while is a gold/beige Toyota that will put you to sleep driving and never need attention. The BMW will need more attention than a Mazda, but is worlds better when it comes to performance and enjoyment, at least in my opinion.


I'm a "naysayer" who has had some experience with some friends and a niece who had the misfortune of owning a BMW. I heard horror stories of $300+ sensors to $300+ battery changes (because the computer has to be set) to "[censored] thing always in the shop and have to catch a ride to work", etc. The cars are overly complicated and should be avoided unless you buy it new and get the extended warranty. Anyone concerned about cost should avoid this product. An American car will be cheaper and more reliable in the long run ,but if you just have to have an import, buy a Japanese car.


$300+ battery changes? You realize what these people fail to leave out is that it's a frame 49 AGM battery ($200+ even aftermarket) and yes, AGM batteries require the charging cycle be re-adapted to the new battery.

BMW dealers also have higher labor prices. Depending on where you live, it's $150/hr, so a $50 sensor quickly becomes $300 with install and adaptation. What BMW did she have? Did she relay that information along with her "horror stories?"

 

[Nick1994]

You're referring reliability of a newer BMW to an 80s BMW?

How about saying the new Ford Explorer is a piece of junk because you knew someone who had a 1909 Ford Model T that wasn't reliable.

I'd stay away and forget about having a status symbol and keep shopping.

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted By: borgward
I do my own wrench work, oil changes. I understand BMW parts are easy to get and not outrageously expensive. Is that true for newer models? No way would I go the Mercedes route. I looke under the hood of new Mazda3, and it looked very difficult to do any repairs, like water pump, oil seals.

I find the number of BMW series bewildering. I don't really know what to look for. I don't need and can't afford high performance models, but don't want something sluggish either. I am guessing 1.8 litre models are lacking in bottom end grunt. To give you an idea of my preferences, I need something I can put my bass amp head, cabinet and Bass into trunk area. I am currently driving a 2013 Fiesta SE which is fun to drive, but find the build quality a bit lacking. My other car is a 99 Mercury Tracer my wife passed on to me. Still looks new after 200,000 miles. More bottom end grunt and better mileage than the Fiesta. Previous to that has a 1972 Datsun 1200 Coupe that I put 600,000 + miles on and a new TR4A IRS that I loved until it was rammed while parked.


There is no 1.8l BMW. I know the number of models can be overwhelming at first, but theres really only 2,3,4,5,6,7. Even numbers are coupes and odd numbers are sedans. Starting from 2012,they're all turbocharged, with anywhere from 180hp all the way up to about a million in the ///M models. xDrive is all wheel drive.

Repairs are still fairly simple for DIY, the only real change to the process being you now need diagnostic software to diagnose, perform guided functions, monitor parameters, and code.

Get out there and drive some cars!

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
You're referring reliability of a newer BMW to an 80s BMW?

How about saying the new Ford Explorer is a piece of junk because you knew someone who had a 1909 Ford Model T that wasn't reliable.

I'd stay away and forget about having a status symbol and keep shopping.


You realize that there are those of us that drive these cars because we like the cars, not because we need a "status symbol," right?

When people say that it cracks me up!

 

[rustypigeon]

Originally Posted By: borgward
I do my own wrench work, oil changes. I understand BMW parts are easy to get and not outrageously expensive.


Doing your doing own work, a BMW won't be so bad. Parts are not any more expensive than other cars. I get my parts online, the local dealer is a rip off for parts.

I bought my 2000 323i for $1200 a couple of months ago. It was in cosmetically great shape, but did not go in reverse and the check engine light was on. I repaired it all myself for about $600. I could have done it cheaper using Chinese parts, but I used all quality parts. If someone had to take this car to a mechanic to do what I did, it easily would have been $5000 in repairs. This was my first BMW, having mostly Toyotas in the past. I did not find it difficult to work on.

What I did to mine....
-repaired transmission reverse drum ($110), valve body casting ($127), seals ($140 overhaul kit), forward clutch ($17)
-replaced rear main seal ($15)(since the transmission was off anyway)
-replaced oil pan gasket ($20)(requires dropping of front suspension)
-replaced oil filter housing gasket ($6) (it was leaking, common in these cars)
-replaced CCV system ($140)(common cause of vacuum leaks, was causing CEL)

 

[crazyoildude]

But a new mazda or a Hyundai BMW is a money pit.. Most of them were great in the 80's but not these days and the cost to fix them will make your head spin.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: Silverado12

I'm a "naysayer" who has had some experience with some friends and a niece who had the misfortune of owning a BMW. I heard horror stories of $300+ sensors to $300+ battery changes (because the computer has to be set) to "[censored] thing always in the shop and have to catch a ride to work", etc. The cars are overly complicated and should be avoided unless you buy it new and get the extended warranty. Anyone concerned about cost should avoid this product. An American car will be cheaper and more reliable in the long run ,but if you just have to have an import, buy a Japanese car.


If only I'd taken your sage advice...

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: rustypigeon


Doing your doing own work, a BMW won't be so bad. Parts are not any more expensive than other cars. I get my parts online, the local dealer is a rip off for parts.

I bought my 2000 323i for $1200 a couple of months ago. It was in cosmetically great shape, but did not go in reverse and the check engine light was on. I repaired it all myself for about $600. I could have done it cheaper using Chinese parts, but I used all quality parts. If someone had to take this car to a mechanic to do what I did, it easily would have been $5000 in repairs. This was my first BMW, having mostly Toyotas in the past. I did not find it difficult to work on.

What I did to mine....
-repaired transmission reverse drum ($110), valve body casting ($127), seals ($140 overhaul kit), forward clutch ($17)
-replaced rear main seal ($15)(since the transmission was off anyway)
-replaced oil pan gasket ($20)(requires dropping of front suspension)
-replaced oil filter housing gasket ($6) (it was leaking, common in these cars)
-replaced CCV system ($140)(common cause of vacuum leaks, was causing CEL)


Posting your own personal experience with fixing BMWs- and it's POSITIVE?
That's clearly not credible- it's much better to listen to heed responses from someone who heard that his best friend's sister's college roommate knew a waitress who had a dentist whose broker told him that he read an internet article from a guy who swore that it cost his second cousin's chiropractor $3000 to change the oil on his 3 Series.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: rooflessVW

You realize that there are those of us that drive these cars because we like the cars, not because we need a "status symbol," right?

When people say that it cracks me up!


I love the fools who say things like, "I could pay cash for ten new BMWs- but I don't need to drive a car that tells every one how wealthy I am."
Of course you don't, you imbecile- you already told us.

 

[ecotourist]

I have a 2000 BMW 528i 5 speed manual (with sport and appearance packages). I've had it since 2003. It's been pretty reliable and hasn't cost all that much to maintain. I do my own basic maintenance eg oil changes but have repairs done by a BMW specialist.

In 100,000 km/13 years I've: had the Vanos system rebuilt (under warranty), replaced the tires twice (last time, Michelins at Costco), brake pads and discs (by the dealer on a special, about $800), replaced the battery once (Canadian Tire, about $200), replaced 2 power steering hoses (by BMW specialist - about $200), had ABS control unit rebuilt ($300 and 10 minutes of my time), replaced a radiator hose and the cooling fan speed regulation system (BMW specialist - a few hundred). And other than routine maintenance that's about it. It has been my daily driver for most of those 11 years - though I also have a 2007 V6 6MT Honda Accord.

It's still a very nice car. Rides, drives and looks beautiful. Only problem is there is some surface rust - not usual for a BMW and reflective of the 3 years before I owned it. My BMW is probably worth about $5000 (in Canada - less in the US). With a bit of maintenance it will probably go another 100,000 miles.

Used 5 series tend to be less expensive than the 3 series (more expensive when new, but lack the youth appeal of a 3 series I suppose).

If you are going to have one car and it has to go every day, get a new or newer Honda/Toyota/Mazda. But if you have a second vehicle a BMW can be quite reliable and not that costly. My BMW specialist swears by the E39 5 series, it's the most reliable model he says, has even bought one for his wife!

 

[ecotourist]

Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
There is no 1.8l BMW.

There is a 318i (ie 3 series with 1.8 liter engine). Unusual for BMW but there are a few around. And apparently a pretty good car.