In WA there is a cc limit........and my gawd indeed, people push that.
USA is still the world's leading manufacturer
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I'm glad this thread was posted. I've gotten tired of hearing how we don't make anything in the US any longer.
I work for a smaller specialty electronics manufacturing company and typically 25%-30% of our products are exported. Some months it's as much as 1/2.
A few of us have spent our whole adult lives building things here in the US. We'll be doing it until we retire...
I work for a smaller specialty electronics manufacturing company and typically 25%-30% of our products are exported. Some months it's as much as 1/2.
A few of us have spent our whole adult lives building things here in the US. We'll be doing it until we retire...
70% of our GDP is consumption. We still make the most "high tech" products in the world. Weapons are probably a large part of it.
Consumer products are mostly foreign. In a relatively short period of time, the country has gone from the world's largest creditor to its greatest debtor. The value of the dollar has declined and domestic manufacturing has given way to non-exportable services.
Consumer products are mostly foreign. In a relatively short period of time, the country has gone from the world's largest creditor to its greatest debtor. The value of the dollar has declined and domestic manufacturing has given way to non-exportable services.
We may still have the highest manufacturing in the world, but that doesn't negate our negative savings rate, huge trade and budget deficits, and a level of consumption that is by any thinking person, unsustainable.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
We may still have the highest manufacturing in the world, but that doesn't negate our negative savings rate, huge trade and budget deficits, and a level of consumption that is by any thinking person, unsustainable.
Right, and in addition the Asian economies are growing rapidly and consuming their own resources. Those savings will then be used for their own people/goods. Their middle class will only grow. The world at some point will not need the U.S. consumer as bad as it does now.
We may still have the highest manufacturing in the world, but that doesn't negate our negative savings rate, huge trade and budget deficits, and a level of consumption that is by any thinking person, unsustainable.
Right, and in addition the Asian economies are growing rapidly and consuming their own resources. Those savings will then be used for their own people/goods. Their middle class will only grow. The world at some point will not need the U.S. consumer as bad as it does now.
my company also is high tech; we make lasers and detectors for fiber optics. I can't see how what we do can be exported, what w/ the amount of custom work we do.
our pkg though is south of the border. that concern was inherited from our predecessor company.
I also miss legacy products that are no longer domestically mfgrd: converse, levis, tonka, etc. some companies compromise, their higher priced items are domestic, the lower are imported. all-clad, kitchenaid do this. trek and cannondale bicycles used to be like this, but now most all their stuff is chinese. funny, though, the prices didn't come down, but I guess profits went up.
also, I don't see how anyone can be proud that one of the largest exports is weapons.
wow, that was 3 'alsos', must be a record for me!
our pkg though is south of the border. that concern was inherited from our predecessor company.
I also miss legacy products that are no longer domestically mfgrd: converse, levis, tonka, etc. some companies compromise, their higher priced items are domestic, the lower are imported. all-clad, kitchenaid do this. trek and cannondale bicycles used to be like this, but now most all their stuff is chinese. funny, though, the prices didn't come down, but I guess profits went up.
also, I don't see how anyone can be proud that one of the largest exports is weapons.
wow, that was 3 'alsos', must be a record for me!
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Quote:
also, I don't see how anyone can be proud that one of the largest exports is weapons.
It is rather odd, isn't it. I'd say that one would surely be proud of producing the best weapons and weapon systems ..but...
I think if you dig into the daisy chain of cash flow, you'll find out that we also pay to export a good deal of those arms too.
also, I don't see how anyone can be proud that one of the largest exports is weapons.
It is rather odd, isn't it. I'd say that one would surely be proud of producing the best weapons and weapon systems ..but...
I think if you dig into the daisy chain of cash flow, you'll find out that we also pay to export a good deal of those arms too.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
I think if you dig into the daisy chain of cash flow, you'll find out that we also pay to export a good deal of those arms too.
I saw a show about that recently. Pretty astounding the amount of bribe money defense contractors pay countries like Saudi Arabia, specifically British BAE. It's illegal in the US, but...........hush hush, US contractors do it just the same.
I think if you dig into the daisy chain of cash flow, you'll find out that we also pay to export a good deal of those arms too.
I saw a show about that recently. Pretty astounding the amount of bribe money defense contractors pay countries like Saudi Arabia, specifically British BAE. It's illegal in the US, but...........hush hush, US contractors do it just the same.
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My favorite, only because it was the most obvious to trace the "cause and effect" of it, was in OZ. We already had Mitsubishi plants that were struggling ..yet Japanese parts were shipped to OZ to be assembled and then sold in the US. The money filtered through their economy and resulted in the purchase of Ambrams tanks. Shortly after the purchase (there was a OZ re-election involved there= keep 'em happy while shaking them down) ..the plant closed.
We sell tons of weapons to our resource protectorates. Everything from oil to bananas. These too we pay for in one manner or another. Many of them have more $$$ than they know what to do with. Some buy more advanced aircraft than we can afford to put in the field.
We sell tons of weapons to our resource protectorates. Everything from oil to bananas. These too we pay for in one manner or another. Many of them have more $$$ than they know what to do with. Some buy more advanced aircraft than we can afford to put in the field.
Originally Posted By: buster
70% of our GDP is consumption. We still make the most "high tech" products in the world. Weapons are probably a large part of it.
Consumer products are mostly foreign. In a relatively short period of time, the country has gone from the world's largest creditor to its greatest debtor. The value of the dollar has declined and domestic manufacturing has given way to non-exportable services.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
We may still have the highest manufacturing in the world, but that doesn't negate our negative savings rate, huge trade and budget deficits, and a level of consumption that is by any thinking person, unsustainable.
I don't disagree with either of you. Some of have been saying the same since probably the 80's
It's just nice to see a thread that isn't on the usual "we don't make anything here and no longer know how" bandwagon.
Actually, I think we're net exporters of services. Not nearly enough to cover our goods deficit though.
70% of our GDP is consumption. We still make the most "high tech" products in the world. Weapons are probably a large part of it.
Consumer products are mostly foreign. In a relatively short period of time, the country has gone from the world's largest creditor to its greatest debtor. The value of the dollar has declined and domestic manufacturing has given way to non-exportable services.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
We may still have the highest manufacturing in the world, but that doesn't negate our negative savings rate, huge trade and budget deficits, and a level of consumption that is by any thinking person, unsustainable.
I don't disagree with either of you. Some of have been saying the same since probably the 80's
Actually, I think we're net exporters of services. Not nearly enough to cover our goods deficit though.
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Some buy more advanced aircraft than we can afford to put in the field.
Please provide a cite.
Some buy more advanced aircraft than we can afford to put in the field.
Please provide a cite.
I agree. You do often hear that we don't manufacture anything anymore.
The only question I have is when will the "end of the road" be for the U.S. economy? Is it coming as soon as Peter Schiff has been saying, or do we have a shot out of this to get back on the right course? According to my personal beliefs and what is going on now, we are making the problem worse in the LR. Seems to be a minority position these days among most mainstream economists.
The only question I have is when will the "end of the road" be for the U.S. economy? Is it coming as soon as Peter Schiff has been saying, or do we have a shot out of this to get back on the right course? According to my personal beliefs and what is going on now, we are making the problem worse in the LR. Seems to be a minority position these days among most mainstream economists.
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Seems to be a minority position these days among most mainstream economists.
You mean the ones that said the economy was just fine 8 months ago...
Seems to be a minority position these days among most mainstream economists.
You mean the ones that said the economy was just fine 8 months ago...
Pretty much....
A counter to Schiff would be:
Quote:
Consider his wost case scenario that dollar becomes worthless and inflation goes through the roof. In my opinion, this will be a great opportunity of US manufacturers to increase their production and serve both domestic and foreign markets. Of course, China will never let dollar fall to these levels because all its factories will be closed then. So there will be an equilibrium where Yuan will rise and some of the production will be in-sourced into USA. China will also find some more markets like India, Russia etc. including its own domestic market and will reduce its over-reliance on exports to US. Remember, all the Chinese stuff is still imported by US companies like Wal-mart etc. So if they find it cheaper to produce in USA, they can always set up factories here. Manufacturing is no rocket science.
With the benefit of hindsight, it is easy to see how wrong he was about decoupling of rest of the world with US economy. The adage that if US sneezes, rest of the world catches cold has come true. Even countries with huge surpluses like China and Germany are facing recessions. No wonder the foreign stocks that he recommends have fallen more than the US equities.
A counter to Schiff would be:
Quote:
Consider his wost case scenario that dollar becomes worthless and inflation goes through the roof. In my opinion, this will be a great opportunity of US manufacturers to increase their production and serve both domestic and foreign markets. Of course, China will never let dollar fall to these levels because all its factories will be closed then. So there will be an equilibrium where Yuan will rise and some of the production will be in-sourced into USA. China will also find some more markets like India, Russia etc. including its own domestic market and will reduce its over-reliance on exports to US. Remember, all the Chinese stuff is still imported by US companies like Wal-mart etc. So if they find it cheaper to produce in USA, they can always set up factories here. Manufacturing is no rocket science.
With the benefit of hindsight, it is easy to see how wrong he was about decoupling of rest of the world with US economy. The adage that if US sneezes, rest of the world catches cold has come true. Even countries with huge surpluses like China and Germany are facing recessions. No wonder the foreign stocks that he recommends have fallen more than the US equities.
Quote:
China will also find some more markets like India, Russia etc. including its own domestic market and will reduce its over-reliance on exports to US.
Yeah, because we want China, that holds 40% of our debt, to NOT be dependant on the US for their economy. That would be GREAT!
It's very apparent that whoever that is doesn't give a rat's behind to the value of people's savings...especially to those that are retired or can't work.
China will also find some more markets like India, Russia etc. including its own domestic market and will reduce its over-reliance on exports to US.
Yeah, because we want China, that holds 40% of our debt, to NOT be dependant on the US for their economy. That would be GREAT!
It's very apparent that whoever that is doesn't give a rat's behind to the value of people's savings...especially to those that are retired or can't work.
I think almost anyone's guess is as good as the next Buster. Provided they have some understanding of what's happened anyway.
Mainstream economists and alleged "experts" seem to miss plenty. For instance, people like Greenspan still maintain that there was little inflation over the last 20 years and use CPI calculations among other things to support their arguments. Yet there was obvious and visible to all "asset inflation" of things like homes during the same period that are somehow never addressed in their calculations. I won't even go into the Keynesians. Gary can carry their water if he wants. Far be it from me to point out their buckets are full of holes.
It's also obvious to anyone with any common sense at all that many if not most of the experts are WRONG and have been for some time. The only question in my mind is if it's intentional, or if they're just "true believers" and they really can't see what has happened and is continuing.
The Austrians and guys like Mish at http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/ have a much better handle on things IMO. But you're correct, no one seems to be listening to them...
Mainstream economists and alleged "experts" seem to miss plenty. For instance, people like Greenspan still maintain that there was little inflation over the last 20 years and use CPI calculations among other things to support their arguments. Yet there was obvious and visible to all "asset inflation" of things like homes during the same period that are somehow never addressed in their calculations. I won't even go into the Keynesians. Gary can carry their water if he wants. Far be it from me to point out their buckets are full of holes.
It's also obvious to anyone with any common sense at all that many if not most of the experts are WRONG and have been for some time. The only question in my mind is if it's intentional, or if they're just "true believers" and they really can't see what has happened and is continuing.
The Austrians and guys like Mish at http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/ have a much better handle on things IMO. But you're correct, no one seems to be listening to them...
Originally Posted By: buster
Pretty much....
A counter to Schiff would be:
Quote:
Consider his wost case scenario that dollar becomes worthless and inflation goes through the roof. In my opinion, this will be a great opportunity of US manufacturers to increase their production and serve both domestic and foreign markets. Of course, China will never let dollar fall to these levels because all its factories will be closed then. So there will be an equilibrium where Yuan will rise and some of the production will be in-sourced into USA. China will also find some more markets like India, Russia etc. including its own domestic market and will reduce its over-reliance on exports to US. Remember, all the Chinese stuff is still imported by US companies like Wal-mart etc. So if they find it cheaper to produce in USA, they can always set up factories here. Manufacturing is no rocket science.
With the benefit of hindsight, it is easy to see how wrong he was about decoupling of rest of the world with US economy. The adage that if US sneezes, rest of the world catches cold has come true. Even countries with huge surpluses like China and Germany are facing recessions. No wonder the foreign stocks that he recommends have fallen more than the US equities.
Here's one observation that opines that the Chinese have about run the course of manufacturing growth though currency trickery. With their money pegged to ours they're unable to dump dollars without watching their own "wealth" evaporate. And if they could survive that and let their currency truely float, they'd lose their current manufacturing price advantages.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comme...ncy-system.html
This is a smart move on their part that looks well forward IMO.
Pretty much....
A counter to Schiff would be:
Quote:
Consider his wost case scenario that dollar becomes worthless and inflation goes through the roof. In my opinion, this will be a great opportunity of US manufacturers to increase their production and serve both domestic and foreign markets. Of course, China will never let dollar fall to these levels because all its factories will be closed then. So there will be an equilibrium where Yuan will rise and some of the production will be in-sourced into USA. China will also find some more markets like India, Russia etc. including its own domestic market and will reduce its over-reliance on exports to US. Remember, all the Chinese stuff is still imported by US companies like Wal-mart etc. So if they find it cheaper to produce in USA, they can always set up factories here. Manufacturing is no rocket science.
With the benefit of hindsight, it is easy to see how wrong he was about decoupling of rest of the world with US economy. The adage that if US sneezes, rest of the world catches cold has come true. Even countries with huge surpluses like China and Germany are facing recessions. No wonder the foreign stocks that he recommends have fallen more than the US equities.
Here's one observation that opines that the Chinese have about run the course of manufacturing growth though currency trickery. With their money pegged to ours they're unable to dump dollars without watching their own "wealth" evaporate. And if they could survive that and let their currency truely float, they'd lose their current manufacturing price advantages.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comme...ncy-system.html
This is a smart move on their part that looks well forward IMO.
Quote:
The only question in my mind is if it's intentional, or if they're just "true believers" and they really can't see what has happened and is continuing.
They don't want the masses on their door step with pitchforks really wanting to get at them. If their house of cards collapses, it will happen as people will be forced to see what they have done.
The only question in my mind is if it's intentional, or if they're just "true believers" and they really can't see what has happened and is continuing.
They don't want the masses on their door step with pitchforks really wanting to get at them. If their house of cards collapses, it will happen as people will be forced to see what they have done.
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Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
China will also find some more markets like India, Russia etc. including its own domestic market and will reduce its over-reliance on exports to US.
Yeah, because we want China, that holds 40% of our debt, to NOT be dependant on the US for their economy. That would be GREAT!
It's very apparent that whoever that is doesn't give a rat's behind to the value of people's savings...especially to those that are retired or can't work.
err..are these the same retired people that you've promoted the notion of kicking to the curb in other posts? What's changed your heart toward these useless eaters?
Quote:
China will also find some more markets like India, Russia etc. including its own domestic market and will reduce its over-reliance on exports to US.
Yeah, because we want China, that holds 40% of our debt, to NOT be dependant on the US for their economy. That would be GREAT!
It's very apparent that whoever that is doesn't give a rat's behind to the value of people's savings...especially to those that are retired or can't work.
err..are these the same retired people that you've promoted the notion of kicking to the curb in other posts? What's changed your heart toward these useless eaters?
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