USA is still the world's leading manufacturer

[firemachine69]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
I would have liked that in the "free trade" agreements that the US would have accepted Oz steel, but they only agreed to Iron ore.

Why would you ship ore, which is largely dirt and oxygen, rather than save the shipping costs and buy steel ?



Because we've been overloaded with the stuff in Canada to give away, and we take precedence.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: mori
Only a manufacturer can afford the required tests and approvals.


I think you left out the word LARGE, big money, or corrupt!

Do you really believe those dinky, rickety motorized bikes, put together in a basement or on a kitchen table, should be allowed to mingle with other motorized vehicles in traffic unless they meet minimum standards in regard to safety and operational functionality? Why should those noisy little stinkers be exempt from all regulations and requirements (insurance and registration), if you want to ride them on public roads?

The TÜV, which is the institution that has to approve any motorized vehicle before it can be sold to the public in Germany is not the gigantic, profit-making, corrupt organization you make them out to be. In fact, the TÜV is internationally recognized and in many countries, including the US, their certification services are approved. The TÜV tests and certifies all kinds of products. The "TÜV-approved" seal means just about the same as "UL-Listed." It's about product compliance!


TÜV USA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TÜV

 

[uc50ic4more]

Originally Posted By: moribundman
Do you really believe those dinky, rickety motorized bikes, put together in a basement or on a kitchen table, should be allowed to mingle with other motorized vehicles in traffic unless they meet minimum standards in regard to safety and operational functionality? Why should those noisy little stinkers be exempt from all regulations and requirements (insurance and registration), if you want to ride them on public roads?


I believe that if gov't is going to impose regulations on an industry, then a ordainment recognition of compliance (and permission from Big Brother to sell the complaint product) should not be prohibitively expensive to acquire. These regulatory bodies' raison d'etre is to serve the affected industries, not to lord over them.

I do not think the issue posited by the prior poster was centered on whether these regulations were, in fact, righteous; but that anyone other than oligarchic megacorps were not able to play at all.

If endless bureaucratic redtapery and prohibitive licensing fees are put in place by Big Brother to dissuade the lil' fella from competing with Big Brother's Best Buddies (or, in a less accusatory tone: To dissuade those that are not really "fit" - Fiscally or otherwise - in the gov't's eyes to compete on a nat'l scale, or in a public forum at all.), then it is an outright affront to the spirit of entrepreneurship and an insult to private initiative, no?

[I'd reference the German compliance verifying entity you've mentioned in your posts, mori, but I cannot figure out how to make an umlaut on my Macbook!]

 

[Tempest]

Quote:
then it is an outright affront to the spirit of entrepreneurship and an insult to private initiative, no?

That's the driving force behind policies like these.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
I believe that if gov't is going to impose regulations on an industry, then a ordainment recognition of compliance (and permission from Big Brother to sell the complaint product) should not be prohibitively expensive to acquire. These regulatory bodies' raison d'etre is to serve the affected industries, not to lord over them.


Certification cost depends on the complexity of the required tests that must be passed to certify the product in question. If you home-build an automobile, the cost will be very high, since, for example, crash-tests are required. If you home-build a bicycle the required tests are much less involved and accordingly less costly. "Too expensive" is a relative term. Pablo's engine kit manufacturer can most certainly afford TÜV certification!

 

[Pablo]

Yes. But you left out "garage".

Because they get better MPG than a Smart Car and are way more fun!

I'm just having a good laugh at your German anality. I didn't need a diatribe about TÜV. Stick "LARGE, big money, or corrupt" in front of manufacturer, not TÜV.

PS We don't sell engine kits.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
then it is an outright affront to the spirit of entrepreneurship and an insult to private initiative, no?

That's the driving force behind policies like these.


Hmm, let's see... maybe not everywhere do people want a giant liability insurance industry that feeds off unfit and unsafe products that are peddled to the public? The involved product liability and its high cost is what often prevents "small guys" from becoming entrepreneurs here in the US. How's that better?

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Yes. But you left out "garage".

Because they get better MPG than a Smart Car and are way more fun!

Fun for the neighbors.

Quote:
I'm just having a good laugh at your German anality.

Do you mean attention to detail?

Quote:
I didn't need a diatribe about TÜV. Stick "LARGE, big money, or corrupt" in front of manufacturer, not TÜV.


I thought you were in urgent need.

Quote:
PS We don't sell engine kits.


What do you sell? Jackshafts? Who needs those if they don't have the motorized bikes in question? As I said, they already have perfectly good MOFAS (motorized bicycles) for those lazy 15 year olds. Third World type vehicles just aren't in demand there.

Yamaha Slider, one of many inexpensive MOFAs:

 

[Pablo]

We ARE a third world country.

That thing doesn't have pedals and it's a scooter! Ewe.

 

[moribundman]

They are reliable enough to not need pedals. Technically, it's a Roller Mofa (scooter mofa) Besides, those lazy kids probably wouldn't pedal back home, but have their mommy come and get them.

Legal speed limit for those bikes is 25 mph. Here is a video of 15 years olds who got caught riding 70, 80, and even 130 km/h with modified mofas.

 

[Pablo]

Done right the China motor is pretty reliable. The pedals are right up your alley - they are a legal link - to be called a motorized bicycle. No pedals, it falls under the motorcycle requirements.

Anyway, most folks we deal with are middle to old geezers, but there are some fairly young guys, and these dudes are anything but lazy. Most are hard working innovators. Lazy dudes aren't strapping engines to their bikes!

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
No pedals, it falls under the motorcycle requirements.


The motor doesn't count. It makes so much sense!

Anyway, you were wondering about not doing business where there's not need for your parts.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
then it is an outright affront to the spirit of entrepreneurship and an insult to private initiative, no?

That's the driving force behind policies like these.


That serves whom best? Big G ..or BIG B? You know, the guys who deserve it because they figured a way to get it??

Cartels. They don't exist ..or so you would lead us to believe. Ante up or you don't get to play.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: moribundman
Do you really believe those dinky, rickety motorized bikes, put together in a basement or on a kitchen table, should be allowed to mingle with other motorized vehicles in traffic unless they meet minimum standards in regard to safety and operational functionality?


YES. They are just as good as a 30 year old classic or maybe more reliable than a 9 year old Mercedes.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: moribundman
Do you really believe those dinky, rickety motorized bikes, put together in a basement or on a kitchen table, should be allowed to mingle with other motorized vehicles in traffic unless they meet minimum standards in regard to safety and operational functionality?


YES. They are just as good as a 30 year old classic or maybe more reliable than a 9 year old Mercedes.


15 year olds don't drive either one of those you mention. Besides, your claim has no merit. Reliability isn't as much a concern as is safety. At least half of the motorized bikes that I see on the road here have been modified to exceed their legal speed limit.

 

[Pablo]

In our state you need a driving license. 16 minimum.

But yes thanks - I had assumed legal issues.

 

[uc50ic4more]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
That serves whom best? Big G ..or BIG B? You know, the guys who deserve it because they figured a way to get it??

Cartels. They don't exist ..or so you would lead us to believe. Ante up or you don't get to play.


This is correct. Big G and Big B forcefully and clandestinely administer a self serving system, and exert untold influence on social and economic development at great peril to our future. Their ivory towers, and the legislation, regulations and policies cascading down from them are largely detrimental to us. Is there a way to fix it? Is there an ethos that encompasses these ideas? If there is, why, I'd bet that Big G and Big B would have spent their considerable resources marginalizing it.

 

[uc50ic4more]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: moribundman
Do you really believe those dinky, rickety motorized bikes, put together in a basement or on a kitchen table, should be allowed to mingle with other motorized vehicles in traffic unless they meet minimum standards in regard to safety and operational functionality?


YES. They are just as good as a 30 year old classic or maybe more reliable than a 9 year old Mercedes.


Which ones (of the infinitum of kitchen table and garage-based manufacturers) are just as good? The "uc50ic4more Motorized Bicycle Concern" thankfully had an extraordinarily short run (one abject failure of a prototype), and conducted nothing in the way of marketing or transactions.

Mori has a point - Without some type of manufacturing quality standardization and accreditation there's no way to objectively quantify what *is* worthy of public use; especially in transportation. When public safety and general well-being is concerned, there ought to be a) some type of standardization and b) some type of body accountable for those standards and their compliance. I still lament, though, that accreditation on a national or industrial scale is so prohibitive to attain; be that because of the extensive requirements of properly testing a product, or because of nefarious policies.

 

[Tempest]

Big G has the force of law, so they always win.

 

[GeaugaFletcher]

Quote:
...have been modified to exceed their legal speed limit.
OH GAWD NO