US Military Power - 2021

[DougR]

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-...s-medical-supplies-not-overpriced-2021-09-02/
https://www.reuters.com/world/excerpts-call-between-joe-biden-ashraf-ghani-july-23-2021-08-31/

Isn't it strange that our media is far less interested in talking about this phone call than the one between the former US President and the President of Ukraine....I wonder why?

Look at this statement from that phone call … “GHANI: Mr. President, we are facing a full-scale invasion, composed of Taliban, full Pakistani planning and logistical support, and at least 10-15,000 international terrorists, predominantly Pakistanis thrown into this, so that dimension needs to be taken account of.”

That kind of preparation by the Taliban and Pakistan doesn’t happen overnight. It took years of patient activity that could not have been hidden from US intelligence.

A 3-year legal battle (2017-2019) finally resulted in a release of 400 insider interviews under the Freedom of Information Act. Look it up. The chances of an investigation are virtually nil. There are too many skeletons hidden in too many closets over the last 15+ years.

 

[pbm]

Look at this statement from that phone call … “GHANI: Mr. President, we are facing a full-scale invasion, composed of Taliban, full Pakistani planning and logistical support, and at least 10-15,000 international terrorists, predominantly Pakistanis thrown into this, so that dimension needs to be taken account of.”

That kind of preparation by the Taliban and Pakistan doesn’t happen overnight. It took years of patient activity that could not have been hidden from US intelligence.

A 3-year legal battle (2017-2019) finally resulted in a release of 400 insider interviews under the Freedom of Information Act. Look it up. The chances of an investigation are virtually nil. There are too many skeletons hidden in too many closets over the last 15+ years.

I agree there are plenty of skeletons and we have a dishonest media with no interest in finding those skeletons. Any way you slice it this 'evacuation' was a failure of planning and execution.

I think it's time we stop with all this 'foreign intervention' period. I agree with the poster who pointed out the (Americans) who benefit from war (elitists) and those who suffer (soldiers and their families).... are never the same people....Have you ever noticed where retired Generals usually go after retirement?....Yes...into the arms industry or 'talking heads' on MSM outlets (run by wealthy elites) ...It's time to put Americans first...It's also past time for TERM LIMITS, IMO...We keep re-electing those that caused the problems they claim they can fix...and they are beholden to 'lobbies' and not to the people...

 

[DougR]

... we have a dishonest media with no interest in finding those skeletons.

It was "the media" that obtained the information after a 3-year lawsuit. It was "the media" that published highlights from the 400 interviews showing how officials systematically misled the public about the war in Afghanistan.

 

[Doc8404]

Leaving gear behind when bases shut down isn't anything new really. All of this is nothing more than a lack of integrity and dignity from up the chain of command.

Meanwhile Lcpl Schmuckatelli loses a PEQ-15 and the entire battalion shuts down and searches for it.

“we are missing one live round. No one goes home until it is found.”

*** LOL

 

[Pew]

Have you ever been in a company that was circling around bankruptcy and then suddenly it happens one day?

There were competing management goals of trying to keep it afloat and keep people working to buy time, they still need their computers to work with. Then there's the goal of keeping people employed just in case they survive and still have computers to work with.

Finally when the time is up the landlord shut the door, you got evicted from the office, your electricity cut, your janitor stopped coming and you run out of toilet paper.

Do you think you have time to eBay all the computers at the last minute? I sure don't. How about selling your company to another company and you have to merge and layoff some of the people? Do you have time to deal with all of their used computers and clean up their cubes? I bet you won't have time for that.

A few hummers and M16, a couple helicopters, are just candy wrappers (let's say it is worth 100M) in the grand scheme of things (2T worth). Without logistics the higher end stuff will be useless pretty quickly.

What are you going to do when you are late on office rent? Do you spend your time installing windows update? What are you going to do when you have an evacuation? You don't prioritize moving weapons and leave people behind, you also don't do oil change like you normally would have done.

Understandable but the military is not a company going to bankruptcy; we were not evicted from Afghanistan. Mass military movements require a lot of logistical planning beforehand and even though we've had 20 years to stack our stuff up over in the sandbox it still does not excuse the fact of leaving that much high-tech gear behind. Especially with the massive airlift operation used to move civvies out of Afghan when it could have been used to move our equipment back. Many units back here at home don't even have access to the gear that was left behind. New/newer M16s/M4s, MRAPs, and other countless gear that infantry companies back here at home aren't even equipped with because of "budget constraints."

This isn't a new thing though. Brand new gear was always left behind when other bases closed down.

In my weapon's company, half our mortars were broken, almost all the M16s were older than the folks they were assigned too (the lucky ones got a M4.) Our Humvees and radios were breaking half the time just driving to and from the training center and towards the end of my enlistment we couldn't even get the new guys fully up with their normal stuff from supply. We really could have used some of that stuff that was left behind.

“we are missing one live round. No one goes home until it is found.”

*** LOL

And we 'find' it at the bottom of somebody's pack after 8 hours of searching LOL.

 

[Doc8404]

@Pew sounds like my Fallujah Iraq tour 2006 LOL.

 

[DougR]

... Any way you slice it this 'evacuation' was a failure of planning and execution.

Almost 6000 evacuees were dual citizenship, Afghanistan and United States with strong family ties to Afghanistan. "Diplomats made 55,000 calls and sent 33,000 emails to U.S. citizens in Afghanistan ... offering opportunity to leave the country." It is reported "... U.S. government alerted Americans 19 times since March to leave Afghanistan."

 

[ron17571]

You like Mathematics? I do...
$2T divided by 20 years = $275M per day.

That's $275 Million spent everyday for 20 years.
Gee, where did that money come from?
And, who ended up with it?

Anyway, that's the Math, if that matters. Your call.

I kind of let that not that much money thing slide in earlier posts. It cost us a lot in many ways.

 

[Propflux01]

Almost 6000 evacuees were dual citizenship, Afghanistan and United States with strong family ties to Afghanistan. "Diplomats made 55,000 calls and sent 33,000 emails to U.S. citizens in Afghanistan ... offering opportunity to leave the country." It is reported "... U.S. government alerted Americans 19 times since March to leave Afghanistan."

Not all were given the option. Only those basically non-essential. Case in point, Civilian dog/animal handlers. They couldn't leave till pretty much the last day. And those that worked in the 'pound' were not allowed to bring the animals back. They had to let them go on the tarmac then board the last planes out. Just one example of people that couldn't get out earlier.

 

[ron17571]

Understandable but the military is not a company going to bankruptcy; we were not evicted from Afghanistan. Mass military movements require a lot of logistical planning beforehand and even though we've had 20 years to stack our stuff up over in the sandbox it still does not excuse the fact of leaving that much high-tech gear behind. Especially with the massive airlift operation used to move civvies out of Afghan when it could have been used to move our equipment back. Many units back here at home don't even have access to the gear that was left behind. New/newer M16s/M4s, MRAPs, and other countless gear that infantry companies back here at home aren't even equipped with because of "budget constraints."

This isn't a new thing though. Brand new gear was always left behind when other bases closed down.

In my weapon's company, half our mortars were broken, almost all the M16s were older than the folks they were assigned too (the lucky ones got a M4.) Our Humvees and radios were breaking half the time just driving to and from the training center and towards the end of my enlistment we couldn't even get the new guys fully up with their normal stuff from supply. We really could have used some of that stuff that was left behind.



And we 'find' it at the bottom of somebody's pack after 8 hours of searching LOL.

Years ago a fellow trucker hauling military trucks told me they were on a one way trip to Afghanistan. He mentioned that now they can buy all new stuff. I also watched a video where the host mentioned that when Obama/Biden was in office we were in seven different wars/actions. I wonder if that stuff will crank up? There's always a new bad guy, somewhere.

 

[DougR]

... it still does not excuse the fact of leaving that much high-tech gear behind... Many units back here at home don't even have access to the gear that was left behind. New/newer M16s/M4s, MRAPs, and other countless gear that infantry companies back here at home aren't even equipped with because of "budget constraints."

Forbes reports key audits on Afghan military equipment are now hidden. According to the GAO, “the State Department requested we temporarily remove and review reports on Afghanistan to protect recipients of US assistance that may be identified through our reports and thus subject to retribution.” However, these reports only have numbers and no recipient information. This week, a SIGAR audit on a $174 million ScanEagle drone loss in 2017 disappeared.

 

[DougR]

... it still does not excuse the fact of leaving that much high-tech gear behind. Especially with the massive airlift operation used to move civvies out of Afghan when it could have been used to move our equipment back.

I hope you meant that we were capable of massive airlifts during most of 2020 and the first half of 2021 to bring our equipment home as well as "civvies" with vetting. Almost 6000 have dual US and Afghan citizenship.

 

[4WD]

an M16 is not a machine gun.

Seems much of the USA thinks the AR15 is a military weapon

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

Look at this statement from that phone call … “GHANI: Mr. President, we are facing a full-scale invasion, composed of Taliban, full Pakistani planning and logistical support, and at least 10-15,000 international terrorists, predominantly Pakistanis thrown into this, so that dimension needs to be taken account of.”

That kind of preparation by the Taliban and Pakistan doesn’t happen overnight. It took years of patient activity that could not have been hidden from US intelligence.

A 3-year legal battle (2017-2019) finally resulted in a release of 400 insider interviews under the Freedom of Information Act. Look it up. The chances of an investigation are virtually nil. There are too many skeletons hidden in too many closets over the last 15+ years.

There' definitely a lot of questions to be answered. But you're taking a corrupt coward and buffoon's hyperbolic word at face value. Something that has nothing to do with "intelligence". Ghani grossly mismanaged the resources he had and Afghan troops were left starving on the frontlines with no hope of relief because this a hole "had no real plan" to defend Afghanistan after the Americans and NATO (mostly) left and he simply dispersed his fragile army all throughout the country rather than parcel them to defend strategic points. Nor did they bother with incidental things like LOGISTICS! Or protecting the identifies of their well trained pilots and special ops personnel that were often targets of assassins away from the front. Something that was reported on more than one media outlet...

As the ol' axiom goes: "he who defends everything defends nothing"...

 

[DougR]

There' definitely a lot of questions to be answered. But you're taking a corrupt coward and buffoon's hyperbolic word at face value. Something that has nothing to do with "intelligence". Ghani grossly mismanaged the resources he had and Afghan troops were left starving on the frontlines with no hope of relief because this a hole "had no real plan" to defend Afghanistan after the Americans and NATO (mostly) left and he simply dispersed his fragile army all throughout the country rather than parcel them to defend strategic points. Nor did they bother with incidental things like LOGISTICS! Or protecting the identifies of their well trained pilots and special ops personnel that were often targets of assassins away from the front. Something that was reported on more than one media outlet...

As the ol' axiom goes: "he who defends everything defends nothing"...

August 20, 2021 NPR reports, "Afghan commandos. ... highly trained soldiers, some 22,000 of them among the 300,000 Afghan forces, (were) the backbone of Afghan's fighting power. Over the years they were stretched thin, flying all over the country to back up regular Afghan Army units who couldn't or wouldn't fight. They often complained about this to NPR reporters. One told us they were meant for special missions, not to handle basic operations that were supposed to be the job of rank and file soldiers. As the Taliban advanced throughout the country during those final weeks, the commandos faced a chilling reality. One commando from the south told us, no one in his unit wanted to surrender. They were there to fight the Taliban. But the Kabul government ordered them to lay down their arms." It appears high-ranking Afghan military leaders also gave up.

It's obvious Afghan leadership was corrupt and abandoned the country. However, which part of Ghani's statement is hyperbole? The number of Taliban (10-15,000) who swept across the country? Pakistan's support? Every word Ghani said was false?

I agree, there are a lot of questions to be answered.

 

[PandaBear]

August 20, 2021 NPR reports, "Afghan commandos. ... highly trained soldiers, some 22,000 of them among the 300,000 Afghan forces, (were) the backbone of Afghan's fighting power. Over the years they were stretched thin, flying all over the country to back up regular Afghan Army units who couldn't or wouldn't fight. They often complained about this to NPR reporters. One told us they were meant for special missions, not to handle basic operations that were supposed to be the job of rank and file soldiers. As the Taliban advanced throughout the country during those final weeks, the commandos faced a chilling reality. One commando from the south told us, no one in his unit wanted to surrender. They were there to fight the Taliban. But the Kabul government ordered them to lay down their arms." It appears high-ranking Afghan military leaders also gave up.

It's obvious Afghan leadership was corrupt and abandoned the country. However, which part of Ghani's statement is hyperbole? The number of Taliban (10-15,000) who swept across the country? Pakistan's support? Every word Ghani said was false?

I agree, there are a lot of questions to be answered.

So, it looks like this guy is as corrupt as Chang Kai Shek, the former Republic of China / KMT leader / gang member / stock trader, who happens to be in the favor of Charlie Song. Having no military leadership all he did was basically killing off political rival in his rank and file, label anyone who refuses his order as treasoners, use only people who are loyal to him, and lost most of his forces because of the bad leadership of the people he uses. A majority of his generals and forces defect to the commies' side, then he retreat to Taiwan and continues to do the same, and double down by removing his generals from power because of the fear of coup and having more generals than necessary, then passed down his control to his son when he died.

If the Afghan leadership is the same as Chang Kai Shek then I can bet you no matter how much more we send them and how many more people we send there to help fight them, we will not win any support, because the local population want that kind of government gone. 20 years is one generation of soldiers, and they will remember what is happening to them under their current corrupted government instead of what was happening to their parents under Taliban. I would bet that a lot of the people we train would end up defecting to the other side if that was the kind of government they grew up with.

 

[PandaBear]

I agree there are plenty of skeletons and we have a dishonest media with no interest in finding those skeletons. Any way you slice it this 'evacuation' was a failure of planning and execution.

I think it's time we stop with all this 'foreign intervention' period. I agree with the poster who pointed out the (Americans) who benefit from war (elitists) and those who suffer (soldiers and their families).... are never the same people....Have you ever noticed where retired Generals usually go after retirement?....Yes...into the arms industry or 'talking heads' on MSM outlets (run by wealthy elites) ...It's time to put Americans first...It's also past time for TERM LIMITS, IMO...We keep re-electing those that caused the problems they claim they can fix...and they are beholden to 'lobbies' and not to the people...

There was one foreigner (British) told me the main reason we are unlikely to see a US general revolt against a legit government and turn the nation into a dictator like many 3rd world country generals did, is that his profit, his pride, his ego, his legacy, are not tied to being in power, but he is well cared for, well paid, well respected, after his service ended. Most military in the world are not the best paid, yet most politicians are. However in the developed world like ours the best paid are the people in finance and industrial world, and basically nobody would dare to mess with the gravy train, not even the generals and admirals of more than 50% of the world's military spending, and the most powerful military ever on earth.

I still remember that tanks that nobody asked for but was approved and paid for. That's a summary of the situation. However if you cut the fat too much, I am not sure if we can guarantee every general in every developed world in NATO would be as honest, and could resist the temptation of being a dictator in a tiny nation somewhere on earth.

 

[CharlesInCharge]

You like Mathematics? I do...
$2T divided by 20 years = $275M per day.

That's $275 Million spent everyday for 20 years.
Gee, where did that money come from?
And, who ended up with it?

Anyway, that's the Math, if that matters. Your call.

The math is mind boggling. I cannot say if this information is accurate, and it varies of course based on variables. But here were the unverified numbers I recall hearing.
* $15,000 per hour of use for blackhawk helicopters. Think of the millions of hours thousands of blackhawks spent there.
* $1.6 million per C17 flight in or out
* $1 million per year per service member for support and logistics (travel, food, security, medical, etc.)
* the price tag for every vehicle was staggering; $1/2 million for Humvees, up to tens of millions each for blackhawks, strykers, abrahams tanks, etc.

Just look at this picture I took in a blackhawk over Iraq 12 years ago! GRRR it's buried on a different external hard drive. I'll try to locate some pictures. The expansive bases and equipment were mind-bending. HUNDREDS of vehicles, T-walls, massive bases, billions of dollars before our eyes in aircraft, tanks, armored vehicles...

 

[CharlesInCharge]

A few hummers and M16, a couple helicopters, are just candy wrappers (let's say it is worth 100M) in the grand scheme of things (2T worth). Without logistics the higher end stuff will be useless pretty quickly.

This is where your apparent lack of combat experience with these terrorists shows. They are extremely resourceful, making weapons and bombs out of spare parts, useless electronics, etc. things that Americans would throw in the trash. The Vietcong were a similar 3rd world resourceful enemy. Turning junk into effective tools and weapons.

"A few hummers and M16s" Good lord, read the news! We left something like 85 BILLION dollars in gear, equipment, weapons, vehicles. That's perhaps more than the entire Afghanistan organic economy for a year, probably more assets than the entire nation could produce in a decade lacking any real manufacturing ability. We abandoned sensitive equipment, highly technical flight equipment, night vision (which is a controlled item in the US, not available to ship overseas - 1 guess why?). This stuff will be used, repaired indefinitely, and/or sold or exploited to our enemies Iran and China. These are a people than can make things run for decades.

Worse, to a people with already no voice or power, those terrorists with our abandoned equipment will be invincible. We really needed to just glass that entire area of our equipment when we left. Evacuate and MOAB the stuff we were leaving.

This is a total catastrophe.

 

[PandaBear]

This is where your apparent lack of combat experience with these terrorists shows. They are extremely resourceful, making weapons and bombs out of spare parts, useless electronics, etc. things that Americans would throw in the trash. The Vietcong were a similar 3rd world resourceful enemy. Turning junk into effective tools and weapons.

"A few hummers and M16s" Good lord, read the news! We left something like 85 BILLION dollars in gear, equipment, weapons, vehicles. That's perhaps more than the entire Afghanistan organic economy for a year, probably more assets than the entire nation could produce in a decade lacking any real manufacturing ability. We abandoned sensitive equipment, highly technical flight equipment, night vision (which is a controlled item in the US, not available to ship overseas - 1 guess why?). This stuff will be used, repaired indefinitely, and/or sold or exploited to our enemies Iran and China. These are a people than can make things run for decades.

Worse, to a people with already no voice or power, those terrorists with our abandoned equipment will be invincible. We really needed to just glass that entire area of our equipment when we left. Evacuate and MOAB the stuff we were leaving.

This is a total catastrophe.

It is already lost when we sent it there. Let's be honest, the purpose is not really to help them but just a way to stimulate weapon consumption. The sooner you realize it the sooner you realize war is a cash cow. What are you sending these high tech weapon to soldiers who will run away from the battlefield for? That's as absurd as buying a $3000 MacBook for a preschooler and then he "forgot" it in the playground, and you blame the teacher for not watching it.

I don't have combat experience, but I know there are corruptions and somehow we end up trusting the ones who will run away instead of the ones who won't run away. Wonder why. Wonder why we keep having our allies like Pakistan stimulating their buddies fighting us back, and why we keep paying Pakistan so they can pay the Taliban to fight us, then we send more things there, and they keep fighting us again.

Maybe the international arm dealers are part of us and everyone wants to keep getting paid and keep fighting. Maybe it is more like NBA and MLB than US vs USSR. Maybe paying a boy you like to beat up your daughter's boyfriend you dislike isn't going to make her fall in love with the boy you like?

Chicommie and Viet Cong change not because they win the war, they change because they are tired of being poor. We didn't beat North Korea into changing either, they have to change because they are tired of being poor. I believe the same for Afghan.