Upcoming Amazon Security Issue

[edhackett]

You should be aware that Amazon is about to start sharing your wifi with others using their devices.

Here’s the article that was passed on to me about the Amazon devices, including Ring security devices, being involved.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/202...lly-share-your-internet-with-neighbors/?amp=1

Ed

 

[wdn]

If you put one of Amazon’s snoopware devices on your home network you pretty much have this coming.

 

[CKN]

It's not a big deal really. And you can turn if off. I realize that somehow hoarding oil and privacy concerns go together...in some strange way......

BTW-Xfinity/Comcast has been doing this for quite some time. Some parents in my neighborhood give their kids wifi only phones-and use the Xfinity neighborhood network to keep in touch with them.

It also has advantages of keeping your home devices "on" even if your own wifi network fails.

So-gentlemen-there are advantages.

 

[paulri]

I have amazon firetv stick, but didn't see any Alexa app installed. Is this something that wouldn't affect me? If not, then how would I turn it off? I went to alexa.amazon.com but didn't see any mention of sidewalk.

 

[CKN]

I have amazon firetv stick, but didn't see any Alexa app installed. Is this something that wouldn't affect me? If not, then how would I turn it off? I went to alexa.amazon.com but didn't see any mention of sidewalk.

Sidewalk Bridges are devices that provide connections to Amazon Sidewalk. Today, Sidewalk Bridges include many Echo devices and select Ring Floodlight and Spotlight Cams. A comprehensive list of Sidewalk devices includes: Ring Floodlight Cam (2019), Ring Spotlight Cam Wired (2019), Ring Spotlight Cam Mount (2019), Echo (3rd gen and newer), Echo Dot (3rd gen and newer), Echo Dot for Kids (3rd gen and newer), Echo Dot with Clock (3rd gen and newer), Echo Plus (all generations), Echo Show (all models and generations), Echo Spot, Echo Studio, Echo Input, Echo Flex.

The short answer is "NO"-it doesn't affect you.

 

[MoneyJohn]

Xfinity/Comcast has been doing this for quite some time. Some parents in my neighborhood give their kids wifi only phones-and use the Xfinity neighborhood network to keep in touch with them.

AFAIK, This is totally different. Most of the cable companies started doing this to cover larger area with their network. Their router is 'partitioned'. One is your network and another is common network. If you device is registered with the cable company, outside your network, it can only access common network. Other devices can never access your network. So nobody else (at least in theory) can access your network traffic. With some, you have a choice of router you use. I use my own whereas cable company's is sitting next to it disconnected.

On the other hand, Amazon devices access your own network. So it is possible that amazon can access your network traffic. I have no idea how it can be used for nefarious purpose but I would be uncomfortable.

Someone pls correct me if I have misunderstood.

 

[alarmguy]

I find this outrageous, Amazon will be using your wifi for their devices in other peoples homes.

Meaning, your neighbor, lets say close neighbor who decides to not have internet access in the home can and will be using his close neighbors internet such as in a condo or nearby home/access point for any Amazon "enabled" device without the neighbor even knowing it for free off his internet. Ring Door bells cameras, security cameras and all other Amazon owned devices.

Sure, you can disable it, ... and how many mindless Americans will do that? 4% maybe ??? and Amazon knows it, just like google knows most America doesnt mind your private emails from gmail to be scanned to deliver ads to you. Oh well ... Big deal for Amazon, profits, sales and profits! .. and the start of the next move of big corporate America into your home for even more profits... and you just dont care. ... )

 

[MrHorspwer]

I find this outrageous, Amazon will be using your wifi for their devices in other peoples homes.

Meaning, your neighbor, lets say close neighbor who decides to not have internet access in the home can and will be using his close neighbors internet such as in a condo or nearby home/access point for any Amazon "enabled" device without the neighbor even knowing it for free off his internet. Ring Door bells cameras, security cameras and all other Amazon owned devices.

Amazon explains this and it is posted word-for-word in the article:

The maximum bandwidth of a Sidewalk Bridge to the Sidewalk server is 80Kbps

total monthly data used by Sidewalk, per account, is capped at 500MB

Those numbers represent a rounding error in a typical home's total internet usage. Nobody is using your internet for free.

AFAIK, This is totally different. Most of the cable companies started doing this to cover larger area with their network. Their router is 'partitioned'. One is your network and another is common network. If you device is registered with the cable company, outside your network, it can only access common network. Other devices can never access your network. So nobody else (at least in theory) can access your network traffic. With some, you have a choice of router you use. I use my own whereas cable company's is sitting next to it disconnected.

On the other hand, Amazon devices access your own network. So it is possible that amazon can access your network traffic. I have no idea how it can be used for nefarious purpose but I would be uncomfortable.

Someone pls correct me if I have misunderstood.

Amazon explains how it works in their white paper:

Amazon Sidewalk Privacy and Security Whitepaper - Amazon Customer Service

Basically, the Amazon devices create their own private network with one another. Packets sent between the Amazon devices have two encryption layers. When a packet goes through the gateway and into your home network (or your neighbors home network), a third encryption layer is added.

Getting away from the alarmist click-bait headline and intro, the link article finally notes

to be fair, the paper is fairly comprehensive, and so far no one has pointed out specific flaws that undermine the encryption or other safeguards being put in place.

and that the whole discussion is all based on

theoretical risks

Frankly, I have less concern about theoretical risk involving Ring cameras than I do actual risk involving fuel pipelines or the worlds largest meat processor.

 

[alarmguy]

Amazon explains this and it is posted word-for-word in the article:




Those numbers represent a rounding error in a typical home's total internet usage. Nobody is using your internet for free.



Amazon explains how it works in their white paper:

Amazon Sidewalk Privacy and Security Whitepaper - Amazon Customer Service

Basically, the Amazon devices create their own private network with one another. Packets sent between the Amazon devices have two encryption layers. When a packet goes through the gateway and into your home network (or your neighbors home network), a third encryption layer is added.

Getting away from the alarmist click-bait headline and intro, the link article finally notes

and that the whole discussion is all based on


Frankly, I have less concern about theoretical risk involving Ring cameras than I do actual risk involving fuel pipelines or the worlds largest meat processor.

OK, just discussing here and don’t take this personal but this sounds like something a politician would say.
Do Amazon devices have the capability to talk to their other Amazon devices on other peoples home networks and use other peoples Internet connection through those devices. Really simple yes or no answer.
The answer is = yes

 

[CKN]

I find this outrageous, Amazon will be using your wifi for their devices in other peoples homes.

Meaning, your neighbor, lets say close neighbor who decides to not have internet access in the home can and will be using his close neighbors internet such as in a condo or nearby home/access point for any Amazon "enabled" device without the neighbor even knowing it for free off his internet. Ring Door bells cameras, security cameras and all other Amazon owned devices.

Sure, you can disable it, ... and how many mindless Americans will do that? 4% maybe ??? and Amazon knows it, just like google knows most America doesnt mind your private emails from gmail to be scanned to deliver ads to you. Oh well ... Big deal for Amazon, profits, sales and profits! .. and the start of the next move of big corporate America into your home for even more profits... and you just dont care. ... )

Sometimes you have to read all the information provided in the thread. Based on your comments you didn't read the white paper because your comments are not factually correct.

 

[alarmguy]

Sometimes you have to read all the information provided in the thread. Based on your comments you didn't read the white paper because your comments are not factually correct.

My comments are factually correct. Anyone who reads the white paper I can see that. We are beating a dead horse here

“Customers with a Sidewalk gateway are able to contribute a small portion of their internet bandwidth … For example, smart lighting at the edge of a user’s property, or a garage door lock in a poor coverage zone, can receive connectivity support from a participating neighbor’s gateway and continue to operate if the device falls offline for a period of time”

translated= You are allowing other people to use your Internet connection with Amazon devices unless you opt out.
Amazon has given the public a whole seven days notice of which much most of the public will never know or bother …
It’s all good but let’s not fluff over it or disguise what it is.

 

[Dennywires]

like lending a neighbor a cup of sugar... here's a slice of my bandwidth.

 

[PandaBear]

I can live with 500MB per month or 80kbps leech.

My main concern would be security flaw that someone can hack and open up my wifi's username and password. I do not trust Lab126's work quality to put this as their priority.

 

[alarmguy]

I can live with 500MB per month or 80kbps leech.

My main concern would be security flaw that someone can hack and open up my wifi's username and password. I do not trust Lab126's work quality to put this as their priority.

My main concern is I have Amazon but I do use them, like they use me, only when needed.
But why are people ok with helping Amazon make more money by allowing their devices to use your internet connection?

"Hey Joe! Lets help Amazon out and let them connect to my network!" I mean, good god one day the snowflake generation is going to need to wake up.
Let a corporation, on your good will, let your neighbors internet devices use your internet connection, ok, yeah, great idea, sure Amazon. But I give them Credit, they are doing it, because like my previous post the vast majority will not think negative about the idea. After all, they would trust Amazon with their own lives and finical security, as well as the well being of their children. )

(yeah, that will be next, Amazon or some bing company offer to provide K-12 education for your children at no cost, sure to turn them into controlled drones.)

 

[mightymousetech]

My wife works in IT security. We will never, ever, EVER have any of these smart devices/speakers in our house.

 

[Hermann]

My wife works in IT security. We will never, ever, EVER have any of these smart devices/speakers in our house.

Your cell phone is snooping on you far more than this Sidewalk ever will.

However I will be calling Amazon to voice my displeasure, a poor response will result in fewer sales for them.

 

[mightymousetech]

Your cell phone is snooping on you far more than this Sidewalk ever will.

However I will be calling Amazon to voice my displeasure, a poor response will result in fewer sales for them.

Only if you leave your phone on factory default settings.

 

[Rand]

Amazon has given the public a whole seven days notice of which much most of the public will never know or bother …
It’s all good but let’s not fluff over it or disguise what it is.

Thats not factually correct I heard about this and disabled it 3 months ago.

Honestly I dont have that big an issue with it, if you are accepting their smart devices to listen to you in your home...
this is not small potatoes.. its micro potatoes.

It is a very alarmist topic posted by "Alarmguy" I do think it should be defaulted to off but for reasons mentioned earlier that will never happen.

The whole article is hyped up to the point of almost clickbait.

 

[4WD]

My main concern is I have Amazon but I do use them, like they use me, only when needed.
But why are people ok with helping Amazon make more money by allowing their devices to use your internet connection?

"Hey Joe! Lets help Amazon out and let them connect to my network!" I mean, good god one day the snowflake generation is going to need to wake up.
Let a corporation, on your good will, let your neighbors internet devices use your internet connection, ok, yeah, great idea, sure Amazon. But I give them Credit, they are doing it, because like my previous post the vast majority will not think negative about the idea. After all, they would trust Amazon with their own lives and finical security, as well as the well being of their children. )

(yeah, that will be next, Amazon or some bing company offer to provide K-12 education for your children at no cost, sure to turn them into controlled drones.)

I have to do antitrust training every year - hard to focus while thinking of several US tech companies and the unelected rulers that run them …

 

[alarmguy]

Thats not factually correct I heard about this and disabled it 3 months ago.

Honestly I dont have that big an issue with it, if you are accepting their smart devices to listen to you in your home...
this is not small potatoes.. its micro potatoes.

It is a very alarmist topic posted by "Alarmguy" I do think it should be defaulted to off but for reasons mentioned earlier that will never happen.

The whole article is hyped up to the point of almost clickbait.

Well, lets put it this way, mainstream media seems to just recently alerted the public and I mean almost every internet and print publication, one just has to do a search and see when the news stories just started, which is the month of June. Even the OP post just heard about it, so I dont know, maybe if you could post the source of where you "heard" it, it may help others but still safe to say its only been widely releases the start of June. So as you say, I might be factually incorrect but would help if you posted the source. (second time this thread I am been called incorrect)

Yeah, ok, "alarmist" share your internet connection with your neighbor ... I think it raises an alarm, but like I say, most will be ok with it, I and other non-big tech drones are certainly not going to help Amazon by doing it, yet I wont make fun of people who choose too ... I just can not believe for the life of me, why and why people are so trusting of everything ...

I just cant for the life of me figure out why people would invite Amazon and their devices owned by strangers into their home internet connection.
You can bet Bank of America isn't going to, but Joe the Plumber will ?