UOA on a 5 Speed Manual Tranny.... Advice....

[Idrinkmotoroil]

Hello all, I want to do some UOA testing of some transmission fluids when I get the chance. This is on a 5 speed manual transmission. Is there certain metals to look out for when it comes to transmission fluid analysis. Typically what metals make up synchros, and what metals make up gears ?. I would think those would be the two wearing items in the transmission.

The last fluid I dumped from the transmission seemed to have lots of visible metal flakes suspended in the fluid, I would expect particle analysis readings to be in the 1000's of ppms on transmissions. Lastly, is this similar to engine oil sampling, you try to take a mid-stream sample as you drain the fluid ?. Any info would be great thanks.

Joey

 

[sbc350gearhead]

Seeing as how there aren't any samples posted, and I doubt most of us would know what we were looking at on a transmission fluid UOA from a manual.......I would suggest you have terry take care of the analysis and interpretation for you.

 

[Robbie Alexander]

Transmission:
Alum. 20
Chrome20
Copper50
Iron250
Lead50
Tin20
Silicon50
WATER0.20%
Solids 2 (dont want any)
Oxi. 0.11
-----------------------------------------
Now compare on the same scale to that of Motor Oil
FYI, based not on what you want to see mut extremes to avoid a Mad-Motor-Disease, called sudden-Engine-SeiZure...
Alum30
Chrom30
Copper50
IRON250
Lead50
TIN--10
Silicon35
water SAME
------------------------------
Just call the above SCALES adjusted
to types of service comparable.

Again, You wouldn't want to continue to run your equipment here, and you wouldn't want to push it here... I think you get the point.

Based on the above info and what you have seen in the discussion forums, I'll let you decide what is best for the numbers!

I have never done one. I have never watched the trends... Those things will get you if you change the fluids 400K - 1M. I think I just may do a couple for the Board to see what an 397,480 mile Tacoma Rear and Transmission look like running on Dino.
I can do that... Been short of funds, so I'll just do one at a time, but I'll do both several times so we can all see.

IMO the following are scheduled changes to be kept in MIND.
Dino- common change every 15-30K
Dino- Super good oil 100K-250K+
Syn- normal 60-100K
Syn- Super good oil 100K-250K+
The above numbers I pulled outa well thin air.
This is based on a lot of personal experiments, and I came to the conclusion, I better not worry about it because as long as it is changed once and a while, you go Hundreds of "K" and have no problems per se... This IMHO is more for OverTheRoad Truckers where they put 1M, 2M, 3M+ on their trucks.... There IMO, is where the real savings can come. JMHO!

[ January 01, 2004, 09:50 PM: Message edited by: Robbie Alexander ]

 

[JohnBrowning]

Idrinkmotoroil, Let the transmission break in! Until it has a good 10,000 mile on it it is still wearing in!

Put the MTL back in and drive it for 10,000 miles! I think you are on the verg on needing medical intervention on this!! You would be better off worrieing about the turbo charger because they have a much higher failure rate then manual transmissions.

Then to try to prevent OCB try freezing your tools in a block of ice and your credit card as well. With these two items frozen you should not be able to remove the drain plug or buy new fluid!!

P.S. Is this your first new car? I ask because I was really anal about my first new truck! I you take another step towards the dark side you might be confused for a Corvette owner and you do not want that!

 

[JohnBrowning]

Idrinkmotoroil, I hope you do not think I am attacking you!! I am just jokeing around with you! I wanted to make sure you knew that! It is easy to be mis-interpreted with text alone!!

 

[MolaKule]

Idrink,

Start the UAO ASAP with the same oil and start looking for trends with latter UOA's.

I would sample at 10K intervals with three runs of the same oil before changing oils.

Keep a log and note driving conditions, weather, hauling loads, pulling loads during the interval etc.

 

[Idrinkmotoroil]

Okay JB thanks for the info, I am having a nervous breakdown over this transmission fluid thing but its hard for me to get over it with all the doom-sayers out there. Hey JB remember in one post i mentioned carbon fibre synchros and claims that Redline killed them in Mustangs and Vipers or whatever other vehicles had them (using Redline D4 ATF I believe) well here is a post on this board about that.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=000753

See I wasnt crazy afterall !.

JB, one short quick answer from you will do it. Should I run Redline C+ATF or Redline MTL in my 5 speed transmission that calls for ATF+4 ?. ATF has a visc. of 7.5, MTL has a visc. of 10. I dont drive in frigid weather, but cool to warm mostly as car is garaged in deep of winter months.

Molakule thanks for the info I would like to do some trending as soon as possible. What metals show up in transmission fluid analysis ?, if sychros are predominantly bronze would we request them to look for bronze specifically or does it fall under tin ?. any other metals specific to a transmission fluid analysis as an engine oil analysis may look for other metals ?.

thanks guys..

Joey

[ January 02, 2004, 08:23 PM: Message edited by: Idrinkmotoroil ]

 

[Bror Jace]

"Are there certain metals to look out for when it comes to transmission fluid analysis? Typically, what metals make up synchros, and what metals make up gears?"

synchros are typically brass/bronze so look for copper and tin. The gears are iron or steel so look for iron. You'll also see some aluminum but the consensus is that this is an incidental indicator coming off the inside of the casing and not actual wear.

I am using a mixture of Red Line MTL and MT-90 and I think I'm gonna take a sample and have it tested at 15,000 miles. I waited until the transmission had 10,000 miles on it before changing.

The Red Line fluids shift better in the cold but I want to know they aren't promoting wear of any other kind.

--- Bror Jace

 

[Idrinkmotoroil]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bror Jace:
"Are there certain metals to look out for when it comes to transmission fluid analysis? Typically, what metals make up synchros, and what metals make up gears?"

synchros are typically brass/bronze so look for copper and tin. The gears are iron or steel so look for iron. You'll also see some aluminum but the consensus is that this is an incidental indicator coming off the inside of the casing and not actual wear.

I am using a mixture of Red Line MTL and MT-90 and I think I'm gonna take a sample and have it tested at 15,000 miles. I waited until the transmission had 10,000 miles on it before changing.

The Red Line fluids shift better in the cold but I want to know they aren't promoting wear of any other kind.

--- Bror Jace

---

my thoughts exactly, thanks for that info Bror, I know certain fluids shift better in my car too but I want to make sure they arent hurting anything inside the transmission.

J.

 

[HOndaGuy]

idrinkmotoroil, what 5 speed car are you using this stuff in? If its a honda, your limited to either the regular honda mtf or redline mtl.

 

[Bror Jace]

"If it's a Honda, you're limited to either the regular Honda MTF or Red Line MTL."

That was true once but I don't think it is anymore.

Pennzoil, GM Goodwrench, BG, Motul, etc ... all make lightweight synchromesh fluids. Not sure about all the applications for these (GL-4) fluids but I can't rule them out, either.

--- Bror Jace