I have a '12 Ford F-150 EcoBoost. Oil on dipstick shows overfull. Had OA by two different companies both said fuel dilution is too high. Ford says 5-7% is acceptable for this vehicle. Anyone else know anything about this?
UOA fuel dilution of 5 - 7 % ok?
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That seems a bit high. How do you drive this vehicle? Short trips?
My ecoboost has shown fuel dilution but it does not seem to be bothering anything at all. Wear metals look very good on mine. If this is an engine breaking in the fuel dilution could be a little higher. Just make sure to use 5w-30 and cap your OCI at 6k. At 5700 my uoa showed full syn was at its limits with those miles.
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Shortest trip is probably 30 miles, no idling. Have gone on longer trips 130 miles.
Originally Posted By: volk06
If this is an engine breaking in the fuel dilution could be a little higher.
How does engine break-in affect fuel dilution?
If this is an engine breaking in the fuel dilution could be a little higher.
How does engine break-in affect fuel dilution?
Wow 5-7%. My Mazda DI turbo engine shows 1 to 1.5% dilution and Blackstone Laboratories suggest that 2% should be ~ the Maximum. 5% sounds high to me, especially with your driving. Ed
These new fangled diesels seem to need their oil changing far too often due to fuel dilution and the new F150 seems to be top of the tables for this type of oil contamination problem.
Above 2% is high and more than 4% is serious, so I would see if the Ford dealer will check over the injection system.
Not sure how you took the sample, but you will get a higher figure if the engine is not run at normal temperatures for at least half an hour before a mid stream sample is taken.
Ford are talking rubbish when they say high fuel contamination is not a problem, as no one wants a truck that requires 3K mile OCI's to stay in limits, although oddly enough not all the new F 150 owners are suffering from this issue and it might be a case of a fuel injection system that is not designed to deal with idling too well, as that is when most of the contamination occurs. I am sure some of these new truck engines are not going to last as long as the old ones.
My own UOA's for a 10 year old V40 1.9 TD with 200K km total and 10K km oil changes has never show fuel contamination and my old Volvo is used like a taxi.
Overfilling the oil can cause big trouble with some engines, the old ones just spat it out the crank case vent, but since there is no outside vent on the new engines it either finishes up in the cylinders or blowing out the seals in a bad case.
Originally Posted By: Eddie
Wow 5-7%. My Mazda DI turbo engine shows 1 to 1.5% dilution and Blackstone Laboratories suggest that 2% should be ~ the Maximum. 5% sounds high to me, especially with your driving. Ed
Above 2% is high and more than 4% is serious, so I would see if the Ford dealer will check over the injection system.
Not sure how you took the sample, but you will get a higher figure if the engine is not run at normal temperatures for at least half an hour before a mid stream sample is taken.
Ford are talking rubbish when they say high fuel contamination is not a problem, as no one wants a truck that requires 3K mile OCI's to stay in limits, although oddly enough not all the new F 150 owners are suffering from this issue and it might be a case of a fuel injection system that is not designed to deal with idling too well, as that is when most of the contamination occurs. I am sure some of these new truck engines are not going to last as long as the old ones.
My own UOA's for a 10 year old V40 1.9 TD with 200K km total and 10K km oil changes has never show fuel contamination and my old Volvo is used like a taxi.
Overfilling the oil can cause big trouble with some engines, the old ones just spat it out the crank case vent, but since there is no outside vent on the new engines it either finishes up in the cylinders or blowing out the seals in a bad case.
Originally Posted By: Eddie
Wow 5-7%. My Mazda DI turbo engine shows 1 to 1.5% dilution and Blackstone Laboratories suggest that 2% should be ~ the Maximum. 5% sounds high to me, especially with your driving. Ed
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Originally Posted By: skyship
These new fangled diesels seem to need their oil changing far too often due to fuel dilution and the new F150 seems to be top of the tables for this type of oil contamination problem.
Above 2% is high and more than 4% is serious, so I would see if the Ford dealer will check over the injection system.
Not sure how you took the sample, but you will get a higher figure if the engine is not run at normal temperatures for at least half an hour before a mid stream sample is taken.
Ford are talking rubbish when they say high fuel contamination is not a problem, as no one wants a truck that requires 3K mile OCI's to stay in limits, although oddly enough not all the new F 150 owners are suffering from this issue and it might be a case of a fuel injection system that is not designed to deal with idling too well, as that is when most of the contamination occurs.
I am sure some of these new truck engines are not going to last as long as the old ones.
Originally Posted By: Eddie
Wow 5-7%. My Mazda DI turbo engine shows 1 to 1.5% dilution and Blackstone Laboratories suggest that 2% should be ~ the Maximum. 5% sounds high to me, especially with your driving. Ed
It's not a diesel. How many miles on the oil? Sounds almost like one of the injectors is having a problem. Run a shorter OCI and retest. Definitely monitor is the fuel dilution to see if it is trending up and document your findings with Ford so you will be covered if a warranty issue arises.
These new fangled diesels seem to need their oil changing far too often due to fuel dilution and the new F150 seems to be top of the tables for this type of oil contamination problem.
Above 2% is high and more than 4% is serious, so I would see if the Ford dealer will check over the injection system.
Not sure how you took the sample, but you will get a higher figure if the engine is not run at normal temperatures for at least half an hour before a mid stream sample is taken.
Ford are talking rubbish when they say high fuel contamination is not a problem, as no one wants a truck that requires 3K mile OCI's to stay in limits, although oddly enough not all the new F 150 owners are suffering from this issue and it might be a case of a fuel injection system that is not designed to deal with idling too well, as that is when most of the contamination occurs.
I am sure some of these new truck engines are not going to last as long as the old ones.
Originally Posted By: Eddie
Wow 5-7%. My Mazda DI turbo engine shows 1 to 1.5% dilution and Blackstone Laboratories suggest that 2% should be ~ the Maximum. 5% sounds high to me, especially with your driving. Ed
It's not a diesel. How many miles on the oil? Sounds almost like one of the injectors is having a problem. Run a shorter OCI and retest. Definitely monitor is the fuel dilution to see if it is trending up and document your findings with Ford so you will be covered if a warranty issue arises.
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Originally Posted By: skyship
These new fangled diesels seem to need their oil changing far too often due to fuel dilution and the new F150 seems to be top of the tables for this type of oil contamination problem.
Above 2% is high and more than 4% is serious, so I would see if the Ford dealer will check over the injection system.
Not sure how you took the sample, but you will get a higher figure if the engine is not run at normal temperatures for at least half an hour before a mid stream sample is taken.
Ford are talking rubbish when they say high fuel contamination is not a problem, as no one wants a truck that requires 3K mile OCI's to stay in limits, although oddly enough not all the new F 150 owners are suffering from this issue and it might be a case of a fuel injection system that is not designed to deal with idling too well, as that is when most of the contamination occurs.
I am sure some of these new truck engines are not going to last as long as the old ones.
Originally Posted By: Eddie
Wow 5-7%. My Mazda DI turbo engine shows 1 to 1.5% dilution and Blackstone Laboratories suggest that 2% should be ~ the Maximum. 5% sounds high to me, especially with your driving. Ed
These are not diesel engines. These are turbo direct injected engines. My uoa tell me my engine will last just as long as older engines as wear is good but my fuel is 2%. The engine will outlast the truck here due to salt. So far there is no proof that the fuel is causing any problems. Direct injection is the cause of the fuel which your vehicle does not have.
These new fangled diesels seem to need their oil changing far too often due to fuel dilution and the new F150 seems to be top of the tables for this type of oil contamination problem.
Above 2% is high and more than 4% is serious, so I would see if the Ford dealer will check over the injection system.
Not sure how you took the sample, but you will get a higher figure if the engine is not run at normal temperatures for at least half an hour before a mid stream sample is taken.
Ford are talking rubbish when they say high fuel contamination is not a problem, as no one wants a truck that requires 3K mile OCI's to stay in limits, although oddly enough not all the new F 150 owners are suffering from this issue and it might be a case of a fuel injection system that is not designed to deal with idling too well, as that is when most of the contamination occurs.
I am sure some of these new truck engines are not going to last as long as the old ones.
Originally Posted By: Eddie
Wow 5-7%. My Mazda DI turbo engine shows 1 to 1.5% dilution and Blackstone Laboratories suggest that 2% should be ~ the Maximum. 5% sounds high to me, especially with your driving. Ed
These are not diesel engines. These are turbo direct injected engines. My uoa tell me my engine will last just as long as older engines as wear is good but my fuel is 2%. The engine will outlast the truck here due to salt. So far there is no proof that the fuel is causing any problems. Direct injection is the cause of the fuel which your vehicle does not have.
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Surprised these new trucks are diesels, as petrol engines are rare in anything except very small cars in the EU and I have not even heard of a new car or truck with an OCI of under 10K miles in normal service.
I had a look at a few of the other 150 eco boost engine UOA's and fuel contamination is not happening to all of them, as some show only trace readings.
Might be just lack of long trips to burn off the fuel from too much idling, if not then it might be worth bulk buying engine oil.
I had a look at a few of the other 150 eco boost engine UOA's and fuel contamination is not happening to all of them, as some show only trace readings.
Might be just lack of long trips to burn off the fuel from too much idling, if not then it might be worth bulk buying engine oil.
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Originally Posted By: skyship
Surprised these new trucks are diesels, as petrol engines are rare in anything except very small cars in the EU
Well, in the US it's just the opposite. It's the diesel engines that are rare.
Surprised these new trucks are diesels, as petrol engines are rare in anything except very small cars in the EU
Well, in the US it's just the opposite. It's the diesel engines that are rare.
I thought the F150 was a truck and I can't think of a single truck sold in the EU that is not a diesel and many have an OCI of 20 to 30K km. Fuel consumption and long service intervals are the first thing most folks look at when selecting a new car or truck, although our fuel and servicing charges are about double those in the US.
Oddly enough, bypass filtration units are not as common on small trucks as they are in the US, although remote engine warm up systems are gaining in popularity. My boss has a diesel Volvo that he has to park outside in winter and he calls it about half an hour before leaving to start an automatic warm up. A full diesel powered engine and cabin pre heat system then warms the oil and coolant to normal temperature and even warms up the cabin, but does not start the engine or flatten the battery and no plug in is required.
That kind of pre heat system is real good for cold start wear factors and would help stop fuel contamination, but it is one expensive option.
Oddly enough, bypass filtration units are not as common on small trucks as they are in the US, although remote engine warm up systems are gaining in popularity. My boss has a diesel Volvo that he has to park outside in winter and he calls it about half an hour before leaving to start an automatic warm up. A full diesel powered engine and cabin pre heat system then warms the oil and coolant to normal temperature and even warms up the cabin, but does not start the engine or flatten the battery and no plug in is required.
That kind of pre heat system is real good for cold start wear factors and would help stop fuel contamination, but it is one expensive option.
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Originally Posted By: skyship
I thought the F150 was a truck and I can't think of a single truck sold in the EU that is not a diesel and many have an OCI of 20 to 30K km. Fuel consumption and long service intervals are the first thing most folks look at when selecting a new car or truck, although our fuel and servicing charges are about double those in the US.
Oddly enough, bypass filtration units are not as common on small trucks as they are in the US, although remote engine warm up systems are gaining in popularity. My boss has a diesel Volvo that he has to park outside in winter and he calls it about half an hour before leaving to start an automatic warm up. A full diesel powered engine and cabin pre heat system then warms the oil and coolant to normal temperature and even warms up the cabin, but does not start the engine or flatten the battery and no plug in is required.
That kind of pre heat system is real good for cold start wear factors and would help stop fuel contamination, but it is one expensive option.
In the US most the vehicles except heavy duty trucks are gas. Most up until a few years ago had 3/5k oci. The standard oci in the US has been 3k for years, people just have a hard time changing over here.
I thought the F150 was a truck and I can't think of a single truck sold in the EU that is not a diesel and many have an OCI of 20 to 30K km. Fuel consumption and long service intervals are the first thing most folks look at when selecting a new car or truck, although our fuel and servicing charges are about double those in the US.
Oddly enough, bypass filtration units are not as common on small trucks as they are in the US, although remote engine warm up systems are gaining in popularity. My boss has a diesel Volvo that he has to park outside in winter and he calls it about half an hour before leaving to start an automatic warm up. A full diesel powered engine and cabin pre heat system then warms the oil and coolant to normal temperature and even warms up the cabin, but does not start the engine or flatten the battery and no plug in is required.
That kind of pre heat system is real good for cold start wear factors and would help stop fuel contamination, but it is one expensive option.
In the US most the vehicles except heavy duty trucks are gas. Most up until a few years ago had 3/5k oci. The standard oci in the US has been 3k for years, people just have a hard time changing over here.
If you are comparing fuel dilution % on UOA's, you have to compare UOA's from the same lab. Some labs use GC, some use FTIR, some use Cleveland open cup flash. GC is the preferred and most accurate from what I understand. But if Blackstone says you have 5-7% fuel, then you're in trouble!
The fuel dilution issue has been well documented by B&G. So has the intake and combustion chamber carbon buildup.
When I shopped for a F-150 with Ecoboost last summer, every dealership denied any problems related to the fuel delivery system. When I asked for free engine cleaning if there was a problem, they said no. I guess they weren't interested in selling a truck!
The fuel dilution issue has been well documented by B&G. So has the intake and combustion chamber carbon buildup.
When I shopped for a F-150 with Ecoboost last summer, every dealership denied any problems related to the fuel delivery system. When I asked for free engine cleaning if there was a problem, they said no. I guess they weren't interested in selling a truck!
I found this white paper that discusses various methods for detecting fuel. It's mostly related to diesel engine oils and biofuels, but it does go into fuel dilution problems in geberal and what you can expect if you ignore it.
http://www.thermal-lube.com/Publications/In-Line,%20Continuous%20Monitoring%20of%20Fuel%20Dilution%20in%20Motor%20Oils%20by%20Fourier%20Transform.pdf
http://www.thermal-lube.com/Publications/In-Line,%20Continuous%20Monitoring%20of%20Fuel%20Dilution%20in%20Motor%20Oils%20by%20Fourier%20Transform.pdf
Originally Posted By: skyship
I thought the F150 was a truck and I can't think of a single truck sold in the EU that is not a diesel and many have an OCI of 20 to 30K km. Fuel consumption and long service intervals are the first thing most folks look at when selecting a new car or truck, although our fuel and servicing charges are about double those in the US.
Oddly enough, bypass filtration units are not as common on small trucks as they are in the US, although remote engine warm up systems are gaining in popularity. My boss has a diesel Volvo that he has to park outside in winter and he calls it about half an hour before leaving to start an automatic warm up. A full diesel powered engine and cabin pre heat system then warms the oil and coolant to normal temperature and even warms up the cabin, but does not start the engine or flatten the battery and no plug in is required.
That kind of pre heat system is real good for cold start wear factors and would help stop fuel contamination, but it is one expensive option.
This is not Europe and the engine being discussed is a twin turbo V-6 PETROL engine. There are diesel truck engines here but that has nothing to do with this thread. This is under the UOA section for gasoline engines if you notice.
I thought the F150 was a truck and I can't think of a single truck sold in the EU that is not a diesel and many have an OCI of 20 to 30K km. Fuel consumption and long service intervals are the first thing most folks look at when selecting a new car or truck, although our fuel and servicing charges are about double those in the US.
Oddly enough, bypass filtration units are not as common on small trucks as they are in the US, although remote engine warm up systems are gaining in popularity. My boss has a diesel Volvo that he has to park outside in winter and he calls it about half an hour before leaving to start an automatic warm up. A full diesel powered engine and cabin pre heat system then warms the oil and coolant to normal temperature and even warms up the cabin, but does not start the engine or flatten the battery and no plug in is required.
That kind of pre heat system is real good for cold start wear factors and would help stop fuel contamination, but it is one expensive option.
This is not Europe and the engine being discussed is a twin turbo V-6 PETROL engine. There are diesel truck engines here but that has nothing to do with this thread. This is under the UOA section for gasoline engines if you notice.
All of the above
A good reason to add bigger turbos , lol. May want to find out what the ratios are supposed to be under normal driving and boost. Check out a ecoboost forum and see what they say. It does sound kind of high but then again it maybe normal.
Might be worth getting a scan gauge to see what she's doing.
Might be worth getting a scan gauge to see what she's doing.
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Originally Posted By: DIESELMECH
I have a '12 Ford F-150 EcoBoost. Oil on dipstick shows overfull. Had OA by two different companies both said fuel dilution is too high. Ford says 5-7% is acceptable for this vehicle.
That was an old post. That much fuel dilution is on the high side, to be sure. I'd guess HTHS might drop by 0.5 with that. Better have some margin in the first place. Anybody who suspects fuel dilution (strong gasoline smell from your oil) should start out with one grade higher oil. As in, if you're supposed to use 0w20, start using 0w30... etc.
I have a '12 Ford F-150 EcoBoost. Oil on dipstick shows overfull. Had OA by two different companies both said fuel dilution is too high. Ford says 5-7% is acceptable for this vehicle.
That was an old post. That much fuel dilution is on the high side, to be sure. I'd guess HTHS might drop by 0.5 with that. Better have some margin in the first place. Anybody who suspects fuel dilution (strong gasoline smell from your oil) should start out with one grade higher oil. As in, if you're supposed to use 0w20, start using 0w30... etc.
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