Hello guys im a new in this forum and just wanted to know if i can run CI-4+ oil on ULSD diesel fuel.. would it be better?? i got a 2011 dodge ram 5500 cab and chassis and done all deletes on it.. thank you for your help!! =)
ULSD on ci-4+ oil
- Thread starter armyn21
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With everything deleted (emissions?) it will work just fine.
yes sir.. Turbo back Exhaust and EGR/Cooler delete.. should i stick with CI-4+ or stick with CJ-4?? im hearing CI-4+ is better than CJ-4 oil..
Either classification will work,how long are your intervals? whats the environment it see's 90% of the time?
Either one will work fine with ULSD - I would use CJ-4 instead as it's likely to be much easier to find.
Im planning to do a OCI @ 7500miles on AMSOIL 15w40 HD DIESEL and MARINE OIL.. we use to put rotella T6 5w40 and do 5000 miles on it. and we drive it around 700 miles a week with a payload of around 5k lbs bec of our recyling business.
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Sounds like a fine plan,CI or CJ will work,CI has a better anti-wear add pack but CJ handles soot much better.
2011? how are your deletes working with your warranty?
2011? how are your deletes working with your warranty?
our company and the dealership where we bought the truck talked about it before we did all the deletes (AKINS FORD & CHRYSLER OF WINDER GA) they said do all the deletes to the truck if we want to.. it will not void the powertrain warranty. it will void the emission warranty.. thank you for all the comments here in BITOG!! this will help a lot!!
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dnewton3
Staff member
Originally Posted By: armyn21
Im planning to do a OCI @ 7500miles on AMSOIL 15w40 HD DIESEL and MARINE OIL.. we use to put rotella T6 5w40 and do 5000 miles on it. and we drive it around 700 miles a week with a payload of around 5k lbs bec of our recyling business.
1) Welcome to the site
2) At the risk of being blunt, your maintenance plan is a total waste of money
Running synthetic for "normal" OCIs will net you no benefit in protection, and will cost you dearly to purchase, typically on a ratio of 3:1.
If you want to get your ROI on the synthetic, then you'll have to greatly extend your OCI, at least to a minimum of the cost factor. I often come off as "anti-synthetic" but that is simply not true. I am "anti-waste". Any person can over or under utilize any product. The "best" oil is the one that fits your maintenance plan and gives good protection, for the least cost. This is not a game to see which oil can give the lowest wear, but a tool which you can use to maximize your investments. Synthetics are great tools, but ONLY if you understand their benefits and limitations. That goes for ALL products.
Further, the myth that CI-4+ is somehow "better" than CJ-4 is unfounded. The reality is that when using ULSD, the CJ-4 performs VERY admirably, and can show benefits in wear reduction over the predecessor, as proven by the major oil makers (Shell, Chevron, Mobil, Castrol) and our own used oil analysis.
Review our long history of used oil analysis on this site, and you'll see what I mean. Your engine is a good one and there is every reason to believe that typical use (even hard use) can easily be survived by conventional 15w40 in your area. I recall a used oil analysis of a Cummins this year where a guy is going 15k+ miles on conventional Valvoline Premium Blue! Here are but a few examples ...
Conventional oil: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/2007-dodge-ram-5-9-oil-analysis-questions.149156/
RL syn: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/04-cummins-5-9-crd-red-line-15w40-diesel-7-500-mi.152715/
Schaeffers syn: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/2004-5-cummins-22536-miles-on-5w40-schaeffers.152294/
My point is this:
You can EASILY run 7.5k miles on conventional oil in your engine and get the same wear protection as any synthetic. Any off-the-shelf CJ-4 oil will do the job for 3x less money than the Amsoil (or any other syn), given your maintenance plan and described use factor.
Again, welcome to the site, and I appologize for the dose of harsh reality, but I presume you came here for advise, and we owe it to you and others to offer the truth. But don't take my word for it; review the hundreds of used oil analysis and make up your own mind. The data speaks for itself.
Read my signature line, and you'll get the idea ...
Im planning to do a OCI @ 7500miles on AMSOIL 15w40 HD DIESEL and MARINE OIL.. we use to put rotella T6 5w40 and do 5000 miles on it. and we drive it around 700 miles a week with a payload of around 5k lbs bec of our recyling business.
1) Welcome to the site
2) At the risk of being blunt, your maintenance plan is a total waste of money
Running synthetic for "normal" OCIs will net you no benefit in protection, and will cost you dearly to purchase, typically on a ratio of 3:1.
If you want to get your ROI on the synthetic, then you'll have to greatly extend your OCI, at least to a minimum of the cost factor. I often come off as "anti-synthetic" but that is simply not true. I am "anti-waste". Any person can over or under utilize any product. The "best" oil is the one that fits your maintenance plan and gives good protection, for the least cost. This is not a game to see which oil can give the lowest wear, but a tool which you can use to maximize your investments. Synthetics are great tools, but ONLY if you understand their benefits and limitations. That goes for ALL products.
Further, the myth that CI-4+ is somehow "better" than CJ-4 is unfounded. The reality is that when using ULSD, the CJ-4 performs VERY admirably, and can show benefits in wear reduction over the predecessor, as proven by the major oil makers (Shell, Chevron, Mobil, Castrol) and our own used oil analysis.
Review our long history of used oil analysis on this site, and you'll see what I mean. Your engine is a good one and there is every reason to believe that typical use (even hard use) can easily be survived by conventional 15w40 in your area. I recall a used oil analysis of a Cummins this year where a guy is going 15k+ miles on conventional Valvoline Premium Blue! Here are but a few examples ...
Conventional oil: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/2007-dodge-ram-5-9-oil-analysis-questions.149156/
RL syn: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/04-cummins-5-9-crd-red-line-15w40-diesel-7-500-mi.152715/
Schaeffers syn: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/2004-5-cummins-22536-miles-on-5w40-schaeffers.152294/
My point is this:
You can EASILY run 7.5k miles on conventional oil in your engine and get the same wear protection as any synthetic. Any off-the-shelf CJ-4 oil will do the job for 3x less money than the Amsoil (or any other syn), given your maintenance plan and described use factor.
Again, welcome to the site, and I appologize for the dose of harsh reality, but I presume you came here for advise, and we owe it to you and others to offer the truth. But don't take my word for it; review the hundreds of used oil analysis and make up your own mind. The data speaks for itself.
Read my signature line, and you'll get the idea ...
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Originally Posted By: armyn21
Im planning to do a OCI @ 7500miles on AMSOIL 15w40 HD DIESEL and MARINE OIL.. we use to put rotella T6 5w40 and do 5000 miles on it. and we drive it around 700 miles a week with a payload of around 5k lbs bec of our recyling business.
Don't let some of these guys talk you out of synthetic oil. If you have been running 5K OCI's then go 7.5-10K with Amsoil your first run on Amsoil. Then go 12-15K and run a used oil analysis.
Im planning to do a OCI @ 7500miles on AMSOIL 15w40 HD DIESEL and MARINE OIL.. we use to put rotella T6 5w40 and do 5000 miles on it. and we drive it around 700 miles a week with a payload of around 5k lbs bec of our recyling business.
Don't let some of these guys talk you out of synthetic oil. If you have been running 5K OCI's then go 7.5-10K with Amsoil your first run on Amsoil. Then go 12-15K and run a used oil analysis.
Originally Posted By: armyn21
our company and the dealership where we bought the truck talked about it before we did all the deletes (AKINS FORD & CHRYSLER OF WINDER GA) they said do all the deletes to the truck if we want to.. it will not void the powertrain warranty. it will void the emission warranty.. thank you for all the comments here in BITOG!! this will help a lot!!
I would get that in writing, dealerships have a nice tendency to forget stuff if your $3000 injectors die on you.
Like others have said for that short OCIs a CJ-4 oil is more than up to the task unless you are getting your fuel in rural Russia, ULSD is almost the only thing you can get at the pump in the US. Thus CI-4+'s TBN advantage is moot and while a CI has slightly more anti-wear additives CJ-4's handle soot better so it is a push unless your running an aftermarket cam or something.
our company and the dealership where we bought the truck talked about it before we did all the deletes (AKINS FORD & CHRYSLER OF WINDER GA) they said do all the deletes to the truck if we want to.. it will not void the powertrain warranty. it will void the emission warranty.. thank you for all the comments here in BITOG!! this will help a lot!!
I would get that in writing, dealerships have a nice tendency to forget stuff if your $3000 injectors die on you.
Like others have said for that short OCIs a CJ-4 oil is more than up to the task unless you are getting your fuel in rural Russia, ULSD is almost the only thing you can get at the pump in the US. Thus CI-4+'s TBN advantage is moot and while a CI has slightly more anti-wear additives CJ-4's handle soot better so it is a push unless your running an aftermarket cam or something.
You could run ANY conventional 15w40 in that 6.7 for 7500 miles and get GREAT results on it-especially in Atlanta, where 30 degrees F is considered cold. If you're going to use Amsoil or Full Synthetic I would do a few used oil analysis and push it to 10K, probably even further.
dnewton3
Staff member
To be honest, if the OP is going to use Amsoil, I would suggest not doing used oil analysis below 22.5k miles...
Heresy? Not really. Amsoil has a pretty darn good written warranty. You can use it up to 3x the OEM OCI (around 22.5k miles if the OEM is 7.5k miles) and never need to do a used oil analysis. Is that not right, Pablo?
So, if the OP wants to use Amsoil, going out to around 22.5k miles gets his ROI approximatly equal to the conventional oils, and adds no additional cost. If he does used oil analysis at 10k, 15k, 20k miles, he just keeps adding to the cost, and he pushes the ROI balance point out even further.
I'm not sure how many quarts a 6.7L ISB holds, however it's got to be 14 quarts or so. Like most other sumps that size or smaller, it may be cheaper to OCI with conventional oil than do a used oil analysis (depending upon lab and tests done, of course).
Most people choose their OCI, then try to cram a lube into the plan based upon some mis-informed poor comprehension of brands and grades. If he's committed to synthetics, he needs to push the OCI to AT LEAST 3x, and that is NOT including the used oil analysis costs. Anything else is a waste of money, because for "normal" OCIs, conventional is every bit as good. His driving pattern, his use factor, and his environment all point to "normal" with no extremes whatsoever.
If he sticks to 7.5k mile OCIs, ANY synthetic is a total waste; there is no logical debate against that stance. If he chooses Amsoil up to 22.5k miles, I'd say no used oil analysis are needed, and will only hurt his expenses. If he chooses to go PAST 25k miles with Amsoil, he's going to need used oil analysis, but it continues to push out his ROI breakpoint.
I think our repsonsibility is to give him the full facts, and let him decide if he's going to use, or waste, whatever oil he chooses.
Heresy? Not really. Amsoil has a pretty darn good written warranty. You can use it up to 3x the OEM OCI (around 22.5k miles if the OEM is 7.5k miles) and never need to do a used oil analysis. Is that not right, Pablo?
So, if the OP wants to use Amsoil, going out to around 22.5k miles gets his ROI approximatly equal to the conventional oils, and adds no additional cost. If he does used oil analysis at 10k, 15k, 20k miles, he just keeps adding to the cost, and he pushes the ROI balance point out even further.
I'm not sure how many quarts a 6.7L ISB holds, however it's got to be 14 quarts or so. Like most other sumps that size or smaller, it may be cheaper to OCI with conventional oil than do a used oil analysis (depending upon lab and tests done, of course).
Most people choose their OCI, then try to cram a lube into the plan based upon some mis-informed poor comprehension of brands and grades. If he's committed to synthetics, he needs to push the OCI to AT LEAST 3x, and that is NOT including the used oil analysis costs. Anything else is a waste of money, because for "normal" OCIs, conventional is every bit as good. His driving pattern, his use factor, and his environment all point to "normal" with no extremes whatsoever.
If he sticks to 7.5k mile OCIs, ANY synthetic is a total waste; there is no logical debate against that stance. If he chooses Amsoil up to 22.5k miles, I'd say no used oil analysis are needed, and will only hurt his expenses. If he chooses to go PAST 25k miles with Amsoil, he's going to need used oil analysis, but it continues to push out his ROI breakpoint.
I think our repsonsibility is to give him the full facts, and let him decide if he's going to use, or waste, whatever oil he chooses.
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Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I'm not sure how many quarts a 6.7L ISB holds, however it's got to be 14 quarts or so. Like most other sumps that size or smaller, it may be cheaper to OCI with conventional oil than do a used oil analysis (depending upon lab and tests done, of course).
6.7 has the same size sump as a 5.9....12 quarts.
http://www.cumminsdieselspecs.com/67.html
I miss just getting three gallons of oil for my old ISB, I having the extra quart lying around with 7.3.
I'm not sure how many quarts a 6.7L ISB holds, however it's got to be 14 quarts or so. Like most other sumps that size or smaller, it may be cheaper to OCI with conventional oil than do a used oil analysis (depending upon lab and tests done, of course).
6.7 has the same size sump as a 5.9....12 quarts.
http://www.cumminsdieselspecs.com/67.html
I miss just getting three gallons of oil for my old ISB, I having the extra quart lying around with 7.3.
Ok my boss already decided to go 13k miles between oci on amsoil HDD.. but my main question is will the ci-4+ oil will work perfectly on ULTRA LOW SULFUR DIESEL.. (15PPM)
Yeah it will work just fine, really it will function no differently than a CJ-4.
Yup, minus the emmision equipment of course.
dnewton3
Staff member
Yes - either oil (CI-4+ vs CJ-4) will work just fine. The CI-4+ will have a bit more TBN; the CJ-4 will have a bit better soot control and wear reduction.
Neither of them will be anywhere near the end of their useful life at 13k miles, so those points are moot ... and still a big waste.
Neither of them will be anywhere near the end of their useful life at 13k miles, so those points are moot ... and still a big waste.
Since this is an engine in a revenue-producing application, the goal is to minimize operating costs. Getting rid of the emissions equipment should improve your fuel economy, so that is probably the biggest step for operating costs that you can make. As far as squeezing every bit of value out of an oil change, set up an oil sampling program, and let the results tell you when to change the oil. Sample at regular intervals of 4 or 5k miles, and when the TBN drops below 2.0, change the oil.
In my experience with Valvoline Premium Blue Classic, my engine had no problems with 15k-mile OCI's over a period of 4 years, give or take. Since you're in Georgia, I see no problem with using 15w40 conventional oil. Premium Blue Classic or Mobil Delvac MX are CI4+ oils that have higher TBN and anti-wear content compared to CJ4 oils. VPBC has TBN of 12, and Phosphorous of 1400ppm. CJ4 oils mostly cluster around 10 TBN, and 1200ppm Phos. Since ULSD fuel has become standard, the high TBN would tend to allow absurdly-long OCI's.
Overall, you can run the CI4+ oil and it will work great, but going further into the future, it may get harder to find.
In my experience with Valvoline Premium Blue Classic, my engine had no problems with 15k-mile OCI's over a period of 4 years, give or take. Since you're in Georgia, I see no problem with using 15w40 conventional oil. Premium Blue Classic or Mobil Delvac MX are CI4+ oils that have higher TBN and anti-wear content compared to CJ4 oils. VPBC has TBN of 12, and Phosphorous of 1400ppm. CJ4 oils mostly cluster around 10 TBN, and 1200ppm Phos. Since ULSD fuel has become standard, the high TBN would tend to allow absurdly-long OCI's.
Overall, you can run the CI4+ oil and it will work great, but going further into the future, it may get harder to find.
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