UCL not needed, but XOM disagrees - discuss

[addyguy]

Whenever someone posts on here asking about using an upper-cylinder lubricant of some kind (MMO, Lucas, 2-stroke oil), we get a heated and divided discussion.

Those FOR UCL's say they use it, in part, to reduce upper-cylinder/piston ring/valve wear.

Those AGAINST UCL's say this isn't necessary - engines do just fine on straight gas, and UCL's aren't proven to reduce engine wear. Some very well-regarded members (Mola, for one) have said they accomplish nothing.

Well, now XOM's new Synergy+ gas additive has "a friction modifier that reduces engine wear by up to 30%" Wait...a friction modifier...slippery stuff....that sounds a lot like a UCL, doesn't it? and they say it reduces engine wear!

Would love to hear some constructive discussion on this, especially from those against UCL's because they 'do nothing'. I'm not baiting, I really want to hear what knowledgeable people think.

 

[RamFan]

I think you're missing one point.

Gasoline already contains friction modifiers that reduce engine wear. I think those that say a UCL product isn't needed are saying that it's not needed because gasoline already contains this lubricant.

Now, this statement by XOM is obviously designed to spur excitement, which it has achieved. Let's not confuse this statement with a revolutionary statement though. XOM already contained friction modifiers, but they're simply now using a different modifier which apparently has been shown to reduce engine wear by up to 30%. That doesn't mean there was no reduction in engine wear without this new formulation though. Let's say previously engine wear reduction was measured at a 3 unit reduction. This new formulation shows a reduction of 3.9 units, technically that is 30% reduction in wear.

 

[Linctex]

I add MMO to my F150 to help keep the rings from sticking when working her really hard.

I've already "welded" the rings in the piston groves on a 302/5.0 engine that was worked really hard for long periods of time (W.O.T. for almost hours on end) when towing heavy, and I am not making the same mistake with my 4.6 liter engine.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Marketing 101; Create the perception that XYZ product is materially beneficial.

 

[Rand]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Marketing 101; Create the perception that XYZ product is materially beneficial.


This.


30% of almost nothing is an even smaller almost nothing.

 

[4WD]

Is MMO an oil - or an organo-metallic friction modifier ?

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted by Rand
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Marketing 101; Create the perception that XYZ product is materially beneficial.


This.


30% of almost nothing is an even smaller almost nothing.

I've seen papers posted here alluding to benefits of UCL. And then you have all the people running TCW3 and having good experiences. Anyway. Less wear is better wear.

 

[addyguy]

Agreed, even if the benefit is small, a substance to reduce wear seems like a good idea.

A UCL may not be the same as an organo-metallic FM; but the principle still remains that 'more slippery stuff' in fuel is good, and XOM seems to agree.

Surprised there is not more comment from those who have criticized adding extra friction-reducing compounds to fuel.

 

[demarpaint]

"I believe" there is a benefit, slight perhaps but still a benefit.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted by addyguy
Agreed, even if the benefit is small, a substance to reduce wear seems like a good idea.

A UCL may not be the same as an organo-metallic FM; but the principle still remains that 'more slippery stuff' in fuel is good, and XOM seems to agree.

Surprised there is not more comment from those who have criticized adding extra friction-reducing compounds to fuel.


The main point of fuel additive friction modifiers is not to reduce wear but to reduce friction for better EFEI.

SAE paper 2001-01-1961 The Performance of a Gasoline Friction Modifier Fuel Additive, shows an EFEI improvement of 0.68% before oil aging and 1.14% after oil aging.

I will let our readers determine if this percentage of improvement really means anything in real life driving situations.

The main wear reduction component for the Upper Cylinder in an IC engine is still the Anti-Wear chemistry contained in engine oils.

Most gasoline blends have aromatic solvents and PEA's which clean the fuel system and fuel injector pintles and orificies and decarb the combustion chambers, respectively.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted by 4WD
Is MMO an oil - or an organo-metallic friction modifier ?


MMO is NOT a friction modifier:

Lab Analysis of MMO

It's main application was as a lead scavenger when Tetraethyl lead was used in leaded gasolines.

 

[JustinH]

What does Lucas UCL do if I dump a few ounces in the fuel tank of my sonata?

Hyundai recommends a fuel treatment every 3k so I purchased a quart of lucas for the first time ever, and have been dosing the car with that.

Nothing noticed so far.

 

[4WD]

Thanks - I was actually trying to steer folks to the difference. I also doubt Chevron is going to put 2 stroke oil in the top tier gasoline anytime soon - but some here swear by it.

I do confess to using some PEA products now and then - but that's all ...

 

[IndyFan]

Of all the people I've known with over 300,000 miles on engines, not a single one ever said they added anything to the fuel other than the occasional fuel system cleaner.

I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm just questioning the value or purpose of it. I've also never seen or experience sticking piston rings. I honestly don't know what that would look/sound/feel like if it even did happen.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by JustinH
What does Lucas UCL do if I dump a few ounces in the fuel tank of my sonata?


Makes your wallet lighter.

 

[krismoriah72]

Im a Fan of Redline Si-1. I dont use it in my vehicles as much as my powersports and OPE. 15oz does 100gallons




Cleans injectors, carburetors, valve and combustion chamber deposits with a concentrated blend of the most powerful high-temp and low-temp detergents available
Cleans all forms of fuel injectors, including GDI
Enhances fuel stability; reduces gum and varnish formation
Use one bottle per tank for most effective treatment, cleans to nearly 100% efficiency in one treatment
Reduces need for octane by up to two points
Contains synthetic upper cylinder lubricant
Cleans pollution control valves
Suitable for use with oxygenated fuel
Safe for continual use
Same chemistry is also available in 4oz dosage as Complete Fuel System Cleaner - Powersports

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted by IndyFan
Of all the people I've known with over 300,000 miles on engines, not a single one ever said they added anything to the fuel other than the occasional fuel system cleaner.

I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm just questioning the value or purpose of it. I've also never seen or experience sticking piston rings. I honestly don't know what that would look/sound/feel like if it even did happen.


But isn't advertising and the power of persuasion wonderful?

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted by krismoriah72
Im a Fan of Redline Si-1. I dont use it in my vehicles as much as my powersports and OPE. 15oz does 100gallons




Redline Si-1, Amsoil PI, Regane, etc are composed of a mix of various aromatic solvents and PEA in a Naphthenic pale oil.


Just HOW does this kind of mix lubricate the upper cylinder.

 

[addyguy]

Some of the 'heavier' oil components doesn't burn up in the combustion process, and 'flows' down into the upper-ring area?

Isn't that how a UCL works? Not being smart, I'm asking.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted by addyguy
Some of the 'heavier' oil components doesn't burn up in the combustion process, and 'flows' down into the upper-ring area?

Isn't that how a UCL works? Not being smart, I'm asking.


One of the sources of HC emissions is that the fuel is solluble in the oil on the cylinder wall, during the intake and compression stroke...it is evaporated out one the power and exhaust strokes. THis would allow an FM to (inefficiently) be introduced to ring blet oil.

Note also that ring belt oil is higher in additives, significantly, than the sump, due to oil boil-off