twin-turbo pickup truck issues?

[Bjornviken]

B58 currently stands, I think, at 1100hp on OE internals.
Toyota had similar issues with diesel engines 20+ years ago. That is what made them buy diesel from BMW in Europe.

That really depends on what type of Toyota diesel engine. But the 2.2 D4D was a disappointed just like the bmw N47 diesel engine, wich Toyota did buy from BMW.

 

[edyvw]

That really depends on what type of Toyota diesel engine. But the 2.2 D4D was a disappointed just like the bmw N47 diesel engine, wich Toyota did buy from BMW.

It was not just like N47. 2.2 was literally falling apart after 100k km. N47 had timing chain issue that was resolvable. Nothing could save D-4D.

 

[Bjornviken]

It was not just like N47. 2.2 was literally falling apart after 100k km. N47 had timing chain issue that was resolvable. Nothing could save D-4D.

Stronger pinnbults will save the 2.2 d4d, N47 have also serious egr issues, or had.

 

[edyvw]

Stronger pinnbults will save the 2.2 d4d, N47 have also serious egr issues, or had.

EGR is always resolvable. Crushed pistons not so much.

 

[Bjornviken]

EGR is always resolvable. Crushed pistons not so much.

not in a bmw, it could mealt up the engine ur burn up the whole car.
But yes it was a recall of 800k + cars with egr cooler issues this year.
Totally pos engine just like the 2.2 d4d

 

[irekm]

4cyl and 8cyl BMW engines seem to had a lot of issues, I don't think anybody but my buddy will call them somehow reliable, and I think he is the ultimate bmw fanboy, and big fanboy of German engineering .
I have a lot of fun talking to him about that topic, no amount of facts will make him second guess his opinion .

 

[dumkid]

not in a bmw, it could mealt up the engine ur burn up the whole car.
But yes it was a recall of 800k + cars with egr cooler issues this year.
Totally pos engine just like the 2.2 d4d

ah egr is fixable in bmw, just not legally.
the timing chain on the back of the engine is stupid though. the m57 is better because the chain is on the front.

 

[edyvw]

not in a bmw, it could mealt up the engine ur burn up the whole car.
But yes it was a recall of 800k + cars with egr cooler issues this year.
Totally pos engine just like the 2.2 d4d

So? I had Egr Recall on 3.0 D-4D.
I know what you talking about. It is EGR, it is being recalled by almost all manufacturers.
On other hand, 2.2 only one thing maybe worked? Prayer and some sacrificial animal.

 

[Burt]

True, but I recall a number of owners indicating better mpg with 91 octane, presumably due to not needing to pull timing. So if you ignore the extra cost of premium, a turbo does not have to pull timing--and of course, a low pressure turbo might never hit the high cylinder pressures (but true, might not be a small displacement engine in the first place).

Now if they are running rich to keep cool and prevent melting pistons (apart from detonation), well that's a killjoy for sure.

Yes higher octane should allow advanced timing and better efficiency. However One offsetting factor is that higher octane gas generally has less btu per gallon. Whatever they do to raise octane lowers energy content. The primary goal is more hp not mpg.

I’ve tried running premium in my 2002 Maxima, 2011 Rx350 where premium is recommended and my 1.0 L turbo fiesta and I swear I get worse mileage. Don’t doubt some do better on premium but hasn’t been my experience.

 

[Bjornviken]

So? I had Egr Recall on 3.0 D-4D.
I know what you talking about. It is EGR, it is being recalled by almost all manufacturers.
On other hand, 2.2 only one thing maybe worked? Prayer and some sacrificial animal.

doesn't help, same goes for BMW 4 bangers

 

[Bjornviken]

4cyl and 8cyl BMW engines seem to had a lot of issues, I don't think anybody but my buddy will call them somehow reliable, and I think he is the ultimate bmw fanboy, and big fanboy of German engineering .
I have a lot of fun talking to him about that topic, no amount of facts will make him second guess his opinion .

that's the problem with ultimate bmw fan boys, can't even admit any issues when it's comes to the brands engines. Only that's been "resolved" or some other excuses. Actually a German car can put much miles on the engine, if you take good care of the car. But again, every car manufacturers have issues with something. But the question is... how much do you need to spend to fix the problem. At least that's how it works for me

 

[supton]

Yes higher octane should allow advanced timing and better efficiency. However One offsetting factor is that higher octane gas generally has less btu per gallon. Whatever they do to raise octane lowers energy content. The primary goal is more hp not mpg.

I’ve tried running premium in my 2002 Maxima, 2011 Rx350 where premium is recommended and my 1.0 L turbo fiesta and I swear I get worse mileage. Don’t doubt some do better on premium but hasn’t been my experience.

Recent discussions here about premium did not reveal premium having less btu’s. Not sure which thread but the idea was not supported.

Can’t argue with your experiences though. Odd but if you can measure it…

 

[Burt]

Recent discussions here about premium did not reveal premium having less btu’s. Not sure which thread but the idea was not supported.

Can’t argue with your experiences though. Odd but if you can measure it…

There is precious little information on how refineries actually make premium vs regular gas. I.e. what's the difference in the mix? There are cites that gasoline has energy content from 114,000 -125,000 btu/gallon so we know there is some variation. And we know that ethanol has much less btu content but higher octane, yet when they blend in 10% ethanol its the same 87 octane as non-ethanol gasoline. Butane is added in the wintertime and has high octane, low btu as well, but all regular gas is 87. Natural gasoline has an Octane of 70 and is not suitable except in relatively smaller amounts.

I used to work for a company that sold natural gas liquids (like butane and natural gasolines) to refineries. Doesn't make me an expert but I attended a Purvin and Gertz (industry experts) conference where they explained how refiners adjusted the mix to achieve 87 or 93 octane. That's where I recall learning that there is an inverse relationship between octane and energy content. For example, I believe they were saying that the use of ethanol was allowing the refiners to put more natural gasoline in the mix and still meet the 87 octane requirement.

Most of this is glossed over and not supported by other on-line sources.

 

[supton]

There is precious little information on how refineries actually make premium vs regular gas. I.e. what's the difference in the mix? There are cites that gasoline has energy content from 114,000 -125,000 btu/gallon so we know there is some variation. And we know that ethanol has much less btu content but higher octane, yet when they blend in 10% ethanol its the same 87 octane as non-ethanol gasoline. Butane is added in the wintertime and has high octane, low btu as well, but all regular gas is 87. Natural gasoline has an Octane of 70 and is not suitable except in relatively smaller amounts.

I used to work for a company that sold natural gas liquids (like butane and natural gasolines) to refineries. Doesn't make me an expert but I attended a Purvin and Gertz (industry experts) conference where they explained how refiners adjusted the mix to achieve 87 or 93 octane. That's where I recall learning that there is an inverse relationship between octane and energy content. For example, I believe they were saying that the use of ethanol was allowing the refiners to put more natural gasoline in the mix and still meet the 87 octane requirement.

Most of this is glossed over and not supported by other on-line sources.

Have you contributed to this thread? Link. It's all past me but what that was my take out of the first page or so. Maybe a slight loss but in the noise, compared to the variability of the feedstock.

 

[JHZR2]

Regardless of load - the turbos still spin. The rate at which they spin will vary with the boost/load, but they still spin. I wouldn't worry at all about "underused" - that just means that the engine won't see heavy use - which is desirable for longevity on any engine.

Any turbine is substantially affected by time at temperature. The higher loading will result in higher temperatures, more erosion and wear, etc.

Underused should mean lower practical pressure ratios, less volume, etc. I agree it is favorable. I don’t know if they will spin any slower if not achieving full boost.

Even under light load they might spin 75k RPMs. Under heavy load, it could be 125k RPMs. Zero concern about "not getting used."

Agree.

Many modern turbos (regardless of engine format) will have long term issues such as the shaft bore wallowing out, causing codes due to positional misalignment. It's not an assurance on all of them, but it's certainly a cause of R/R on a fair amount of them with high miles. Also, many of today's turbos use coolant to manage the heat (in addition to oil flow), and they will develop coolant leaks at the supply tube junctions, o-rings, etc as those things age. None of the above really has anything to do with usage factors; it's more age/miles related simply due to things wearing out.

I suspect this is highly dependent on the pressure ratios and design attributes.

Low pressure, call it 12psi class turbos have decades of experience in automotive use with high reliability.

I think mundane 9-3 wasn’t even that, it was a low inertia, low lag design, iirc it was 7psi in a modern engine design.

Start upping pressure and anything may suffer reliability issues. But not employing the stressing conditions may help that.

 

[wwillson]

Start upping pressure and anything may suffer reliability issues. But not employing the stressing conditions may help that.

Both of my GM Duramax diesels have turbos capable of 29 psi. I have seen them both that high once. I just had to see if it was really possible. My turbos rarely exceed 20 psi and usually run between 8-14 psi running down the interstate.

 

[ctechbob]

I datalogged a few short pieces tonight if anyone wants to see what a turbo truck does on the highway and putting around through surface streets.

This is a 4 mile stretch of 4 lane highway with the cruise set on 75. The only two data plots selected should be boost/vacuum and speed.

The particular stretch of highway drops 100 feet in those 4 miles and then climbs back up a bit. Nothing big, just normal foothills of GA type elevation changes.

Now, this is a single turbo truck, but I'd bet tomorrows lunch money that the 2.7/3.5 wouldn't be using any more boost to move a slightly bigger truck through the air. Truck is in 10th gear the whole time, fully warmed up, etc etc.

Here's a static image where I drew in the 0 boost line. Below the line is vacuum above is boost. The link to the interactive chart will let you see more pinpoint data.

Cruising down the highway, at 75, the tuck is in vacuum a bit more than you would suspect. The couple bumps in the first 1/2 are slight inclines, and the 10psi peak at the end is a little bit steeper hill.

Interactive Chart:

datazap.me | ctechbob | Log 1717730054

datazap.me

This second chart is about 3 miles of surface street driving with a max speed around 45. This is through neighborhoods, so you're pretty light on the throttle. Almost never truly in boost, although very close.

Interactive Chart

datazap.me | ctechbob | Log 1717730054

datazap.me

Just thought some people might like to see something like this. These turbo trucks are far from just boiling the snot out of the turbos at all times.....well, unless I'm towing, then it is, but even then, on flat highway it is still nowhere near the max boost (21psi) unless I'm really wanting to get moving or dealing with traffic messes.

 

[Pew]

Both of my GM Duramax diesels have turbos capable of 29 psi. I have seen them both that high once. I just had to see if it was really possible. My turbos rarely exceed 20 psi and usually run between 8-14 psi running down the interstate.

Right up to the MAP sensor limits

 

[thastinger]

Both of my GM Duramax diesels have turbos capable of 29 psi. I have seen them both that high once. I just had to see if it was really possible. My turbos rarely exceed 20 psi and usually run between 8-14 psi running down the interstate.

You are in boost under unloaded highway conditions?

 

[thastinger]

I datalogged a few short pieces tonight if anyone wants to see what a turbo truck does on the highway and putting around through surface streets.

This is a 4 mile stretch of 4 lane highway with the cruise set on 75. The only two data plots selected should be boost/vacuum and speed.

The particular stretch of highway drops 100 feet in those 4 miles and then climbs back up a bit. Nothing big, just normal foothills of GA type elevation changes.

Now, this is a single turbo truck, but I'd bet tomorrows lunch money that the 2.7/3.5 wouldn't be using any more boost to move a slightly bigger truck through the air. Truck is in 10th gear the whole time, fully warmed up, etc etc.

Here's a static image where I drew in the 0 boost line. Below the line is vacuum above is boost. The link to the interactive chart will let you see more pinpoint data.

Cruising down the highway, at 75, the tuck is in vacuum a bit more than you would suspect. The couple bumps in the first 1/2 are slight inclines, and the 10psi peak at the end is a little bit steeper hill.

View attachment 223515
Interactive Chart:

datazap.me | ctechbob | Log 1717730054

datazap.me

This second chart is about 3 miles of surface street driving with a max speed around 45. This is through neighborhoods, so you're pretty light on the throttle. Almost never truly in boost, although very close.


View attachment 223517


Interactive Chart

datazap.me | ctechbob | Log 1717730054

datazap.me

Just thought some people might like to see something like this. These turbo trucks are far from just boiling the snot out of the turbos at all times.....well, unless I'm towing, then it is, but even then, on flat highway it is still nowhere near the max boost (21psi) unless I'm really wanting to get moving or dealing with traffic messes.

That is in boost a lot more than I would have thought. Are you logging boost with some sort of 3 bar map setup?