Twin Turbo Analysis VR1 20w/50, T6, M1

[nautoncall]

So we always have these oil debates and I posted on my Viper forums but didn't get any real detailed responses. So here is data with me having two different Dodge Viper TT cars with multiple different oils, T6, M1 15/50 and VR1 20/50 conventional. Love to hear your thoughts. I have read over and over on forums....15 or 20wt is so bad for a modern car and we shouldn't have to run a 50 wt unless our motor is built loose. I see that some newer Ferrari cars (LaFerrari, F12, 458 Speciale) run a Castrol Supercar 10w-60. So does that mean a Ferrari engine is built loose....I think not!!! Also, all Ford Performance vehicles run 5w/50. This oil thing is so confusing. I've had two different Viper Turbo car shops tell me to run VR1 20w/50 conventional. So in my stock Viper the T6 looks good. In the turbo cars it shears bad and breaks down. The M1 15w/50 does pretty good but by far the VR1 does the best. I read all the post of the recent "anyone still using 20w/50" and I have to say, it's not just for worn out motors.

 

[Cujet]

It's good to know that the UOA "wear metals" do not really reflect wear rates. UOA results can tell if excessive wear is a problem, but not really any wear rate differences between oils. This is particularly true when a specific component is responsible for the higher metals. An oil cooler and copper may be one example. Too often people assume higher Fe is cylinder, crank or even cam wear. When in fact, it likely has nothing to do with the wear rates of those components. The VR1 has an HTHS of 4.8 and the M1 15W-50 of 4.5. Both oils will adequately protect a highly stressed engine. The M1 is a touch less viscous under all conditions. The synthetics will handle a turbocharger's heat with less coking. It will also be less prone to carboned up piston rings. You decide whether you need that.

 

[BLND1]

Huh... T6 shears... go figure :p Thank you for posting, definitely something we don't see every day. For a more all around performance car a 5w50 definitely makes sense. For a more limited "summer" car with big power the 20w-50 and others certainly come in to their own.

 

[aquariuscsm]

I had perfect uoas on my 300ZX with RP 20W50 and GTX 20W50,which is an oil weight specd via the 1990-1996 Z32 fsm under certain driving conditions (operating in a hot climate,racing,and extended high speed driving).

 

[nautoncall]

Thanks guys. I knew I came to the right place for advice and opinions. VR1 20w-50 comes in synthetic. I've been using conventional at the request of both turbo shops. Not sure why though. I live in AL so the car is hardly ever driven in temps lower than the 40's. I may transition to 1/2 and 1/2. My current car has about 3000-4000 miles on it since it was built. I assume synthetic would be fine now?

 

[benjy]

lighter base oils "go away" sooner even real synthetics!! being in a very hot climate heavier oils are best as ALL oils thin with more heat + typical group III synthetics thin more than a real synthetic PAO + or Ester oil. running a cheaper 20-50 like hot running big V-Twin bikes use is a good choice as you start with a thicker 20 wt before viscosity improvers are added to get to a 50 at 100C, of course real synthetics are better as they little if any viscosity improvers!! if you can afford those cars you can afford RedLine real synthetic Ester oils IMO. oil analysis dont tell the full truth, check out savagegeese.com fine print vids on oils etc, hes a no bull reviewer!

 

[nautoncall]

Yea one recommendation was Motul 300V 15w-50. I'm running RL 5w-50 in one of my TT Fords. Which RL would you recommend??

 

[aquariuscsm]

There's also Mobil 1 0W50. I think it's really expensive though. And there's Royal Purple XPR 20W50. Another good one which used to be really cheap to buy was Pennzoil GT 25W50.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted by nautoncall

Yea one recommendation was Motul 300V 15w-50. I'm running RL 5w-50 in one of my TT Fords. Which RL would you recommend??

Redline 15w50 is shear-proof. In Alabama, the 15W-ness is fine.

 

[nautoncall]

A_Harman, that Redline 15w50 sounds perfect. Do you think its better than 5w50?

 

[krismoriah72]

I am no expert by any means..but "the T6 looks good. In the turbo cars it shears bad and breaks down" From recent VOAs vs your UOAs https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4526887/1 Your UOAs of the Stroked Twin Turbo.. the T6 looks to be close to spec?? Also if i remember correctly the Mobil 1 15w50 likes to thicken.. but thats mainly from the talk on the motorcycle uoa section.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted by nautoncall

A_Harman, that Redline 15w50 sounds perfect. Do you think its better than 5w50?

As a general rule, wide multigrade oils like 5W-50 employ viscosity index improvers to achieve the qualities of each oil at the rated temperatures. Motorcyclists with shared sump eng/trans, who use 5W-50, 10W-60 (and similar) find that they shear very rapidly. Often lasting less than 1000 miles. M1 15W-50 is very shear resistant, by design with a minimum HTHS of 4.5 (although tests at 5.1) . However, other oils in it's class, such as the Redline 15W-50 spec out more like 20W-50's. By that measure, the M1 is a touch thinner. It's up to you to decide if that's the right choice. For my turbocharged projects, the M1 has always been the easy choice. Works well, available anywhere.

 

[RDY4WAR]

I don't agree with the conventional VR1 recommendation, but if it's getting changed at <1,500 miles, I suppose it's fine. I'd want something more like Driven DT50 or HPL 5w-50. Quite a few turbo'd V8s I deal with run those two oils.

 

[aquariuscsm]

There's also Castrol Edge 5W50.

 

[nautoncall]

Originally Posted by Cujet

Originally Posted by nautoncall

A_Harman, that Redline 15w50 sounds perfect. Do you think its better than 5w50?

As a general rule, wide multigrade oils like 5W-50 employ viscosity index improvers to achieve the qualities of each oil at the rated temperatures. Motorcyclists with shared sump eng/trans, who use 5W-50, 10W-60 (and similar) find that they shear very rapidly. Often lasting less than 1000 miles. M1 15W-50 is very shear resistant, by design with a minimum HTHS of 4.5 (although tests at 5.1) . However, other oils in it's class, such as the Redline 15W-50 spec out more like 20W-50's. By that measure, the M1 is a touch thinner. It's up to you to decide if that's the right choice. For my turbocharged projects, the M1 has always been the easy choice. Works well, available anywhere.

I would agree with this based on UOAs on my Twin Turbo 5.4 Ford with Motorcraft 5w50. After 750-1000 miles the viscosity has broken down quite a bit. Thanks again for all the replies. I'm learning a lot.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted by nautoncall

A_Harman, that Redline 15w50 sounds perfect. Do you think its better than 5w50?

Yes. Whenever somebody talks about oil for a high-performance turbocharged gasoline engine, I automatically think of full synthetic oil with low viscosity spread. The higher the viscosity spread, the thinner the base oil, and more Viscosity Index Improvers are required. It is the viscosity improvers that can break down leave coke deposits on the hot surfaces in an engine, such as the turbine oil seals, piston undercrowns, and ring grooves.

 

[nautoncall]

But isn't a Redline 10w40 more like another companies 15/50?? This is so confusing!!!

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted by nautoncall

But isn't a Redline 10w40 more like another companies 15/50?? This is so confusing!!!

Now you're shifting the discussion to HTHS viscosity. Redline oils typically have the HTHS of higher grade oils from other makers. The HTHS of Redline 10w40 is 4.4 cP. The HTHS of Mobil 1 15w50 is 4.5 cP. The HTHS of Redline 15w50 is 5.8 cP. So the Redline 40-weight is very close to Mobil 1's 50 weight, while their 50-weight is effectively much thicker.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Of your analyses, the Rotella did the best job.

 

[zorobabel]

Originally Posted by aquariuscsm

Of your analyses, the Rotella did the best job.

The last UOA is on a NA Viper.