"Tuning" MaxlifeMV with some redline racing "F"

TeamZero said:
...It softened up the shifts some, as both trans are designed(by designed I mean software calibration) for WS. Now if I could CHANGE that software, I would be good....but there is nothing available. And there are no upgrades/mods from the aftermarket. Typical failure is planetary/and/or bushing failure in first 2 gears...
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Yes, you have stated that at least three times so no need to repeat.

TeamZero said:
The reason my thinking that higher vis is going to help, is that this ONLY happens on these when used hard/full load. Really this trans is past design limit in this application, thats why they have torque limiting in first 2 gears. Maybe I didn't explain as clear as I should have so I'll try again. So
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Torque Limiting is used to lengthen the life of various components, such as the differential, U-joints, mounts, the engine, and transmission.

Torque limiting is primarily for the benefit of the engine in order to reduce internal parts stresses as it limits rpm in the lower gears.

Most AT's are designed to accommodate at least 10% more torque than the max engine torque.

What are the max torques of these engines and transmissions?

TeamZero said:
I would prefer to keep vis up around 7 to 7.5, as im HOPING this will increase the life/stave off a failure of geartrain. Maybe it wont, but I'm not going to just leave as is and hope for the best.
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Ok then use https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/lit/databulletins/g1646.pdf and T4 or WS and report back your ratios and shift performance.

However a change of about 1 cSt of viscosity is NOT going to result in an increase in film strength for the planetary gears or bushings/bearings.

Tracking, using an unmodified transmission, is going to result in transmission rebuilds so I would recommend saving up for those rebuilds, regardless of the fluid or mix of fluids used.
 
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MolaKule said:
Yes, you have stated that at least three times so no need to repeat.



Torque Limiting is used to lengthen the life of various components, such as the differential, U-joints, mounts, the engine, and transmission.

Torque limiting is primarily for the benefit of the engine in order to reduce internal parts stresses as it limits rpm in the lower gears.

Most AT's are designed to accommodate at least 10% more torque than the max engine torque.

What are the max torques of these engines and transmissions?



Ok then use https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/lit/databulletins/g1646.pdf and T4 or WS and report back your ratios and shift performance.

However a change of about 1 cSt of viscosity is NOT going to result in an increase in film strength for the planetary gears or bushings/bearings.

Tracking, using an unmodified transmission, is going to result in transmission rebuilds so I would recommend saving up for those rebuilds, regardless of the fluid or mix of fluids used.
Click to expand...

In this application the torque limiting is only to make the trans live, thats it. It doesnt limit rpms or anything, only boost slightly. Limit as listed is 370lb for trans....and car is rated stock at 370lb, but they are a bit underrated. I'm putting 425lb to wheels with minimum mods......most stock ones are 370-380 to wheels.
I cant use that amsoil as I would have to use just that total, not mixed, as its listed at 7.1......well I guess with T4, but I want a better syn. oil. And actually it takes WS stock (5.3) so its an almost 2cSt jump. Better than nothing.
 
TeamZero said:
In this application the torque limiting is only to make the trans live, thats it. It doesnt limit rpms or anything, only boost slightly. Limit as listed is 370lb for trans....and car is rated stock at 370lb, but they are a bit underrated. I'm putting 425lb to wheels with minimum mods......most stock ones are 370-380 to wheels.
I cant use that amsoil as I would have to use just that total, not mixed, as its listed at 7.1......well I guess with T4, but I want a better syn. oil. And actually it takes WS stock (5.3) so its an almost 2cSt jump. Better than nothing.
Click to expand...

The resulting viscosity of the final mix is a function of the ratio of the various viscosities of each fluid.

Limiting Torque in a vehicle can be done by a number of possible methods: Reducing the engine RPM (as the Example curve shows), cutting horsepower almost instantaneously by deactivating one or more cylinders (deactivating fuel injector solenoids and/or spark), or by lowering the fluid pressure to the wet clutch pack and allowing it to slip. Reducing clutch pack fluid pressure to limit torque is a terrible way to limit torque since the temperature of the clutch pack rises sharply in turn raising fluid temperature and increasing clutch face wear. Another method used in industry is to use a mechanical torque limiter on the input shaft, but I doubt this transmission is that sophisticated.

So what is the method of torque limiting in these vehicles?

Horsepower Verses Torque III.jpg
 
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I was kind of hoping the original poster was just going to say he was going to use red line transmission fluid! Oh well, gonna sit back and watch.
 
MolaKule said:
The resulting viscosity of the final mix is a function of the ratio of the various viscosities of each fluid.

Limiting Torque in a vehicle can be done by a number of possible methods: Reducing the engine RPM (as the Example curve shows), cutting horsepower almost instantaneously by deactivating one or more cylinders (deactivating fuel injector solenoids and/or spark), or by lowering the fluid pressure to the wet clutch pack and allowing it to slip. Reducing clutch pack fluid pressure to limit torque is a terrible way to limit torque since the temperature of the clutch pack rises sharply in turn raising fluid temperature and increasing clutch face wear. Another method used in industry is to use a mechanical torque limiter on the input shaft, but I doubt this transmission is that sophisticated.

So what is the method of torque limiting in these vehicles?
Click to expand...

As I stated above, boost is reduced in first 2 gears, to reduce torque. Noticeable to see when using a datalogger.
And Mania in page 5 of the pinned honda/multi is the one where I got the idea to mix fluids.
 
TeamZero said:
Well I am kind of.....lol 2L of Racing F with the maxlife that I will flush it with.
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2L of Type F with how many L of Maxlife?

I would suggest you have your proposed mix sent to a lab to determine its actual viscosity and so you can determine which ratio gives the shift feel you prefer.

BTW, a reduction in boost is not a fast way to reduce torque since it takes a finite time for the waste gate to open.
 
No labs, going to try 2L/5L and see how it feels.....actually boost is a perfect way. It knows what gear its in, so it just uses a different set point.....ie 15psi instead of 19psi.
 
No labs? Clinging to anecdotal evidence in the face of detailed technical discussion?

If I wanted to improved the life of a tracked Volvo with an AW transmission, I would add a big transmission fluid cooler, with a thermostat that opens about 160F, to supplement the radiator cooler. Heck, add a spin on filter while you’re at it.

I’ve done this on three Turbo Volvos with AW transmissions.

Heat reduction in the fluid is where I would look for gains in reliability, not tiny changes in viscosity, or absolute guesses on friction modifiers.

I posted some pictures of one install (they’re all about the same) in this forum:

02 XC70 Transmission Flush From Bottom

I was (am) underneath the front end replacing the driver's side fog lamp and found pulling the plastic bits pretty easy. While I wait for delivery of the fog lamp I am also doing all the brakes and planning a transmission flush. I found (and have now lost) a thread about pulling the lower...
www.volvoxc.com
 
Astro14 said:
No labs? Clinging to anecdotal evidence in the face of detailed technical discussion?

If I wanted to improved the life of a tracked Volvo with an AW transmission, I would add a big transmission fluid cooler, with a thermostat that opens about 160F, to supplement the radiator cooler. Heck, add a spin on filter while you’re at it.

I’ve done this on three Turbo Volvos with AW transmissions.

Heat reduction in the fluid is where I would look for gains in reliability, not tiny changes in viscosity, or absolute guesses on friction modifiers.

I posted some pictures of one install (they’re all about the same) in this forum:

02 XC70 Transmission Flush From Bottom

I was (am) underneath the front end replacing the driver's side fog lamp and found pulling the plastic bits pretty easy. While I wait for delivery of the fog lamp I am also doing all the brakes and planning a transmission flush. I found (and have now lost) a thread about pulling the lower...
www.volvoxc.com
Click to expand...

The reason I say no labs is, its easy to figure the vis. by ratio i'm using. If shift feel is not to like, then I will go up or down from there with the RL. Trans cooler is added. Has a large external OEM coolant/trans fluid cooler now(stat controlled)and an added air/oil cooler.
 
TeamZero said:
No labs, going to try 2L/5L and see how it feels.....actually boost is a perfect way. It knows what gear its in, so it just uses a different set point.....ie 15psi instead of 19psi.

... its easy to figure the vis. by ratio i'm using. ...
Click to expand...

So this tranny has a capacity of 7L including the Torque Converter? How are you calculating the resulting viscosity?
 
The first file gives the mathematical basis for viscosity verses temp relations while the file from Boris shows how to calculate resulting viscosities when mixing different viscosities.

Or, Since you have a bias here, i.e., none equal viscosities with none equal quantities, one could use the "Weighted Arithmetic Mean."

Weighted arithmetic mean - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 

Attachments

  • Visscosity verses Temperature Calculation.pdf
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  • Viscosity Blending Equations.pdf
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