Trying to decide which station wagon

[pacem]

My criteria are these: 1. Station wagon 2. Stick shift transmission

Thus far I narrowed down the choice to:

1. BMW 5-series
2. Volvo V70 XC
3. Subaru Legacy

All of the above from 2000-2002 as budget allows.

Volvo seems most appealing and practical, most room. However, I am really scared by carsurvey feedback, it's pretty bad for these years. Looks like an expensive car to maintain. The other concern is handling.

BMW 528iT (Touring) appears to have really improved its QC versus earlier 90's models. The space is a bit less but so what. More importantly, how does it handle in snow / bad weather? Both Volvo and Subaru are AWD, but 5-series is usually RWD (Possible to find AWD but very difficult to find Touring/5-speed/5-series/AWD combination)

Re: Subaru - am most familiar with these. The 2.5L engine has had ongoing head gasket issues. Subaru even had a recall on them, dealers will add some kind of stuff to the radiator coolant to prevent it.
I don't like frameless windows. It also seems like a cheaper car compared to the other two.


The only other thing that matters to me is that it should be easy to fix DIY, regular maintenance. I know BMW had a timing chain, and Subaru had a belt, but not sure about Volvo. I like chains that you don't ever have to change. And easily accessible parts in the engine bay.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

the 98-00 v70's are held in high regard in the volvo world. they use a belt that is not too terribly difficult to change especially if you have someone to help with that. these cars run well even after some profound neglect so take a good look through the service records. mileage dependent, i'd want to see t-belt done and if pcv was due for service or not. other than that, you'd want to check/replace the vacuum lines and other basic stuff and should be good to go.

 

[pacem]

what I am saying is, take a look at feedback on V70.
some of the stuff is downright scary. It's things like this that make me pause.
It seems their quality has really gone down since they were owned by Ford. Gone are the days of 240 that could run forever and ever.

Quote:

"Unreliable, poorly designed, costly vehicle"
What things have gone wrong with the car?

Failed brake booster, bad suspension and bushings, failed O2 sensor, failed ABS unit, electronic throttle module failed, many light bulb replacements, engine light constantly coming on for unidentified reasons.



http://www.carsurvey.org/reviews/volvo/v70/2001/

 

[Ibrahim]

does not matter which one you go with, they are all equally practical/functional, and all will cost you money when the time will come to repair, I would say go with BMW as you may find it easier to re sell....and BMW prolly has better handing!

 

[Marukai]

Subaru Legacy would be the most reliable. The AWD is also the best in snow

 

[Scienceman]

+1

 

[andyd]

A jeep buddy in the 4 corners of CO has an early 80s AMC Eagle AWD wagon. It has been updated with a late model 4.0 FI I6 and a late model Grand Wagoneer transfer case with a low range and shift on the fly. . Not for everyone to be sure, but I would love one. Way shorter money than a 9 yr old Volvo or BMW

 

[eljefino]

The Saturn LW200, 2001 vintage, has the nice ecotec 2.2 and a 5 speed. Much of the rest of the car is unexciting, and the electrics lemony. But if you could get one for $1000...

 

[eagle23]

I'd go with the Subie. While it has it's potential weak spots, it's lower cost to fix. The Volvo and BMW are guaranteed to be higher maintenance. The BMW's a great car, but not cheap to keep. That's not a slam on them, just what is.

If you are drawn to a Subie, hold out for a relatively low-mileage one, and check the service history closely re the head gaskets. Maybe run a compression check before purchase to see if anything is getting weak. It's only a photo of that point in time but might help. Once fixed, it isn't likely to re-occur. Also, find what the price of the headgasket work is if it has to be done. That may help ease the decision.

The frameless windows is, for me, way down on the list of what matters. They don't keep you from getting home on a dark and stormy night

.

 

[dhise]

mileage wouldn't scare me on the subaru. A lack of maintenance would. I would try to find one with the headgaskets already replaced. If not, then use that to bargain the price down because they will go. At least in the years you are looking at the leak will be external and you will have plenty of warning before any dangerous overheating will occur. If you can swing it an '04 and up subaru would be a much better bet.

 

[Stanley Rockafeller]

Originally Posted By: pacem
what I am saying is, take a look at feedback on V70.
some of the stuff is downright scary. It's things like this that make me pause.
It seems their quality has really gone down since they were owned by Ford. Gone are the days of 240 that could run forever and ever.

Quote:

"Unreliable, poorly designed, costly vehicle"
What things have gone wrong with the car?

Failed brake booster, bad suspension and bushings, failed O2 sensor, failed ABS unit, electronic throttle module failed, many light bulb replacements, engine light constantly coming on for unidentified reasons.



http://www.carsurvey.org/reviews/volvo/v70/2001/



I honeslty really dislike when ppl. say Ford's ownership of Volvo was the cause of their reduced reliability. In all honesty, those who've owned an older Volvo 240 know how finniky they were. It wasn't until the mid 80's did Volvo improve upon their early 70's design. The only reason why the 240's were considered reliabile, is because they were simplistic and stripped out design and had next to no options when compared to the other european competition. Sure the drivetrains were reliabile, but what about the problematic electrical systems? or the wireing harness on late 70's and early 80's Volvos that would literally crumble and cause electrical shorts?

To the original poster...if you enjoy driving, and the pleasure of a winding road, and want a car that'll perform well as it ages ...the only clear choice is the BMW. After owning one you'll realize why they sell for so much more than a Volvo when new, yet the repair costs and maintenance are practically identical. If you are concerned with winter driving, get a set of decent winter tires and you're set!

Happy motoring!

 

[Audi Junkie]

The XC is good except for the AWD/Haldex

 

[mormit]

My in-laws have a 2001 Forester. Lots of electrical glitches, CV shafts changed at 80K, just had the clutch and exhaust replaced at 110K.

It hasn't had the headgasket problem yet but I don't think they're keeping it much longer.

 

[pacem]

I've had several Subarus in the family - most poorly maintained by the driver. One was a 92 Loyale, made it to about 200K when the 1.8L engine had some kind of problem, tranny failed too.

The other, 2000 Legacy was totaled at something like 140K.

The 2000 Legacy that replaced it still keeps going at 200K but is pretty abused (fluids changed when feels like it - don't ask me, I am not the driver)

No sign of head gasket leaks with it. If you scan forums like ultimatesubaru.org you will see that head gasket issues were fairly common with phase I 2.5L, circa late 90's, somewhat less common with newer ones and supposedly completely fixed past '05?

AWD seems to be a big asset, especially considering that I like to live in cold climates with snow.

 

[matt922]

the XC does not come in manual trans, you might want to look at 01 v70 t5s with manuals as there are a select few of them always for sale.

Ford did not take over volvo till around 2000 and did not come out with a fordish designed volvo until around 2005 with the s40 and 2006 with the s80(or when ever the newer s80 came out). Same with the xc90.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: andyd
A jeep buddy in the 4 corners of CO has an early 80s AMC Eagle AWD wagon. It has been updated with a late model 4.0 FI I6 and a late model Grand Wagoneer transfer case with a low range and shift on the fly. . Not for everyone to be sure, but I would love one. Way shorter money than a 9 yr old Volvo or BMW



That is awesome! I've always wanted one of those. Had a friend who had a wagon and a Limited at that with leather and all. We went everywhere in that thing.

But to the poster: I see you require a wagon. I think you'd be well served with a small SUV that has the same or more room, similair MPG and not look like a station wagon. Of course looks are subjective, I just don't think a BMW looks good in a wagon. But the Subarus are nice and the AWD is a plus wet or dry out.

 

[440Magnum]

Of those on your list, I'd pick the BMW.

But if I were picking from all available vehicles that fit the general parameters of "wagon" plus stick shift, I'd run straight to a Jeep Cherokee without hesitation. More capable and reliable than any on your list, and the last tech refresh versions (1996-2001) are available for great prices right now (beware of 2000s if the head casting says "0331" though- they're prone to cracking.) Yes, people will tell you that the dual solid axle design is "primitive." Ignore them and go DRIVE one- it may be primitive, but it works very well and is supremely low-maintenance. You'll be amazed how well they drive on-road.

But then I'm biased: I own a '99 4.0/5-speed and you'd have to shoot me to get me to let it go.

 

[SteveSRT8]

There's something to be said for low maintenance.

And someone should point out that EVERY mfgr. makes lemons. Every single one.

Personally I like a full size Dodge Magnum.

Many 5.7 Out there with big miles, and AWD is available.

These vehicles are cheap to service and dead reliable. Buddy of mine has 170k miles on his and it runs like a Gem. The gas mileage will surprise you.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
There's something to be said for low maintenance.

And someone should point out that EVERY mfgr. makes lemons. Every single one.

Personally I like a full size Dodge Magnum.

Many 5.7 Out there with big miles, and AWD is available.

These vehicles are cheap to service and dead reliable. Buddy of mine has 170k miles on his and it runs like a Gem. The gas mileage will surprise you.



I forgot all about the Magnum. Now I don't like wagons BUT that one is awesome! Give me a hemi and I'll be good to go and won't be embarassed in that wagon.

 

[fdcg27]

The Subie.
Cheaper to buy in equivalent condition, and cheaper to own.
Also, Subes are often owned by the faithful, while later Volvos and Bey Em Veys are often owned by people trying to make a statement. IMHO, the average middle-aged Subie is probably better maintained as a result.
I am biased, since we own a Subaru, but we still have an old BMW, which is a great driver and not especially free from repairs, but it is an old car.
Friends and aquaintances who have had late Volvos have not been amused.
You will rarely encounter a Subaru owner who doesn't like his car.
Just my .02.