Subaru 5EAT (not CVT) ATF UOA: 80k, factory fill??

[Impatient]

Two part question:
* what are your thoughts / concerns with this UOA result?
* what would you do next?

Background: just bought this 2013 Subaru Outback with the 3.6 H6 and 5EAT traditional automatic (not CVT). 80k miles. Probably got the cart before the horse, but brown leather interior in impeccable condition, body very very good, no obvious signs of rust or damage. California car (then N. TX). lots of Carfax entries, but multiple owners, not the most reassuring records of maintenance…but not terrible. Anyway, checked fluids and not overly happy with ATF condition, so bought a 12 qt box of genuine Subaru HP ATF. Took sample before any D & F’s. Attached. No guarantee, but quite possibly the factory fill, quite possibly not, though no indication on Carfax of trans work or maint.

Shortly after buying, my Mom passed away, and then I (badly) broke my right ankle (accelerator foot), so can’t drive…supposedly for another 5 weeks. No spouse or GF, so car sits. And I just now am reviewing the UOA.

So, how bad (or not) does this UOA seem? I noticed some dark flecks in the fluid from original drain, but did not request a particle count or anything out of the ordinary on the UOA. Since then, I’ve done 2x 4qt drain & fills. I stopped short of the 3rd, which I have the fluid for, thinking it might be best to drop the pan, check out the internal screen/filter, and wipe any splooge off the pan and/or magnet, before using up the last of my fluid (of course more can be bought). There is no external factory filter as on earlier 5EAT’s from 05-09. So that’s part of the 2nd question: is it worth the risks & expense to have the pan dropped? I would probably have that work done by a shop, rather than tackle it myself (adding to risk, and expense…or I could chance it myself once I am healed up). The shop I would prefer might not be willing to use my fluid (OEM, new in bottles), though I would ask again (pretty please, with sugar on top?) so that might be a deal breaker, as I don’t want Valvoline in there. #2 shop, exact same hurdle, and #3 same again, except BG fluid. I’m sure I could find someone to stick with the OEM fluid (besides the dealer), but I don’t know them yet.

I should add, generally the trans shifts well, especially after D&F’s, except noticed weird abrupt downshift exiting right-hand turns. Has happened 2-3 times. All to the right, never on left-hand turns??? Weird.

The other OCD option would be to add an “OEM-like external spin on filter” circuit, but not sure how hard this would be. Only assuming, since earlier models had this, that it could be retrofitted to the gen 4 Outback. Gen 3 had different motors (2.5 4-cyl or 3.0 6-cyl), but assume 5EAT virtually the same.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

It's probably worth changing the ATF.

When I buy a car, the first things I do are an oil change and transmission fluid too.

 

[Impatient]

Well, that was the plan behind the back-to-back drain & fills. Was going to do a 3rd. My point was, would it be better to clean out the oil pan (no idea if relatively clean or totally mucked up), and replace internal screen filter, or just do a 3rd drain & fill without opening up the pan. Regardless, yes replace most or all fluid, but which is better: total “flush” or open the thing up to see deposits/clean internal screen/filter??? 3 drain & fills won’t get 100% new fluid, but approx 77%. 4th D&F only gets another 9% or so…diminishing returns. And there is some risk dropping the pan. Lots of bolts to potentially strip.

 

[Impatient]

Of course I will address the F & R diff fluids, brake & power steering, but the ATF was a bit more of a head scratcher, since multiple approaches possible. Engine oil was changed by selling dealer (non-Subaru). Assuming they didn’t put 0w16 in it, it’s probably the least of my worries. But I will change it out soon enough, probably to Amsoil SS, or possibly HPL’s basic PCMO…have some of both in my stash.

While I may have cut my nose off to spite myself, I wanted this particular Subaru: no turbo, no premium gas required, no direct injection / fuel dilution, no CVT. H6 is powerful enough; I’m seeing 25-27 actual on highway. Not terrible.

 

[Impatient]

Any Subie 5EAT (or Nissan cousin) owners seen major “sedimentation” in their AT pan or on magnet?

 

[Impatient]

I was trying to delete that last post and (may as well also this one please). Why no delete post????

Any thoughts on my transmission or the UOA results?

 

[Impatient]

I guess my question got lost in all this: would it better to risk dropping the pan to get a look at sediment and oil screen/filter changing last 4 qts in process, or just avoid risk and just swap in the last 4 qts I have (for 77% oil change) via drain & fill. 2 ways to swap in the last 4 qts. Which would you do? Not knowing what these 5eat’s are supposed to feel like, I would say it’s not as good as my Transit’s 6R80 in most situations, but only real complaint is noticeable downshift to 1st while slowing way down and/ or slow turning right. A bit odd. Of course, I miss my manual in my older turbo Outback…except in extreme freeway stop & go…which is too frequent now days.

 

[LordNilesStandish]

Sounds like a sweet car. Definitely worth keeping.
The 5eat just isn't a great shifting transmission. It is actually strong though and has computer controlled front and rear bias.
I think because it was initially installed in the Tribecca it was programmed to be very mushy. Which you may like.
If you want it the be a bit sportier to match the H6 which is a pretty sweet engine get a Trango shift kit installed. I installed one and it was pretty straightforward. Made a massive difference but a trans reset and relearn was required.
Don't sweat pulling the pan. It's pretty easy.
If you pull the pan and let the valve body drain over night, and do a final flush out the coolant line at the radiator you can do a 100% flush easily. My wife's took 9L in total.
Use the Valvoline Maxlife ATF. It works well in these and has additives to extend the trans life.
I have done the above to a 240,000 km 5eat behind a ez30 and its thriving. I thought the trans was toast before.
At least drop the pan and do a full flush with Maxlife and a reset relearn.

 

[MolaKule]

I guess my question got lost in all this: would it better to risk dropping the pan to get a look at sediment and oil screen/filter changing last 4 qts in process, or just avoid risk and just swap in the last 4 qts I have (for 77% oil change) via drain & fill. 2 ways to swap in the last 4 qts. Which would you do? Not knowing what these 5eat’s are supposed to feel like, I would say it’s not as good as my Transit’s 6R80 in most situations, but only real complaint is noticeable downshift to 1st while slowing way down and/ or slow turning right. A bit odd. Of course, I miss my manual in my older turbo Outback…except in extreme freeway stop & go…which is too frequent now days.

If you do not know if the factory fill has ever been changed, then a drain, pan drop and clean, and a filter change wouldn't hurt.

I suspect the new fluid is cleaning out the crud left behind by the factory fill.

 

[LordNilesStandish]

If you do not know if the factory fill has ever been changed, then a drain, pan drop and clean, and a filter change wouldn't hurt.

I suspect the new fluid is cleaning out the crud left behind by the factory fill.

I agree.
At 240,000 km mine was well due for replacement and the pan had rtv from a previous drop, so at least second change.
It's easy enough to drop the pan on these and if the OP has enough time to let it drain for a few days he will get out a lot more than 4 L. Especially if the VB and converter drain.
If they have gone to an internal filter on these and it's the original it's probably full. Mine was (while being external).
The last little bit of old fluid can be removed from a disconnected cooling line and running the engine until fresh fluid flows. In my case it was only approx 1 L.
I would let the new fluid sit for a while to refill the VB to avoid throwing codes if necessary.
In terms of the downshift clunk. If this never goes away consider yourself lucky. It's a Subaru 5eat.

 

[tcp71]

My folks bought a 2009 Tribeca with that drivetrain new. My 81 yo mother still drives it and it has the original ATF in it. No hugely worried about changing at now that it's approaching 10k miles...

 

[LordNilesStandish]

My folks bought a 2009 Tribeca with that drivetrain new. My 81 yo mother still drives it and it has the original ATF in it. No hugely worried about changing at now that it's approaching 10k miles...

It's really a great drive train when you think about it.
EZ30 with VVT and Lift, automatic with computer controlled front rear bias depending on driving style. Good strong diffs with rear viscous coupling in many models.
The EZ30 pulls strong all the way from idle to 7,000.

 

[tcp71]

I sometimes drive her to her appointments in it. Solid and relatively fun car. A total tank with winter tires in bad weather.

 

[Impatient]

If you do not know if the factory fill has ever been changed, then a drain, pan drop and clean, and a filter change wouldn't hurt.

I suspect the new fluid is cleaning out the crud left behind by the factory fill.

Thank you for responding, and I believe you’re right, I just needed to be talked into going the extra step. I am trading one risk for another: the risk that I muck it up, vs that it’s already mucked up inside.