Trying ARX for a sludged-up Toyota

[Steelhead]

women know how to make babies, empty a checking account and put on lipstick, not check oil level dipstick

thank *** for oil level/pressure shut off switches on Yuppie Hondas

 

[dmproske]

Dang, sounds like that oil was in there for MUCH LONGER than she is telling you.

 

[Thermactor]

You should take it back. You have nothing left to lose now - except towing costs - fill the engine with diesel fuel or kerosene and let it soak overnight. then drain that out, and fill it with cheapo motor oil, and run it for 20 minutes, then drain that out. you might save the engine

 

[Volvohead]

Once you start hearing "metal on metal", "grinding", "grating", "metallic" sounds, it's time to open it up. You likely already have some engine damage. So you might as well be more aggressive about it now.

Drop the pan to see if the pickup is clogged. If so, clear it. Don't disrupt too much sludge, or it may clog the pickup. Don't rely on the pressure switch. Sometimes they clog up, too. Put a pressure gauge on it and see if any/enough juice is getting to the top end. If not, the game is over, and it's time for rebuild/replacement. But if so, run a strong kero flush as mentioned and then another ARX treatment for heavy sludge, but double up on the filter changes.

I hope your GF takes better care of herself than she does her cars.

 

[UzLess]

Ok...I've heard enough about the kerosene fill to actually try it. But I have some questions, so I don't cause more damage or set fire to the vehicle or my house.

- When you collectively say 'fill', do you mean until it's overflowing from the oil fill outlet ? Or some lesser amount ?

- How much kerosene will I need, roughly, for this 2.0L engine, to fill the galleys ?

- How long do I drain the engine bolt off for a period of time ? ?

- After draining, do I fill the engine with oil again to the brim of the oil fill ? How many qts will this take to do so ? I'd rather make one trip for my oil, and I want to have a large enough container for the extra quantities added.

- How long to leave the 'oil bath' in for [not the 20min run, but the oil fill to remove the kerosene] ? Overnight, again ?

- The 20min oil run - just to the 'full' mark . Correct ?

- Recycling - who would accept the used kerosene ? Also, any special recycling considerations with the oil from the oil bath, since it'll be diluted with kerosene ?

- Finally, assuming that I follow whatever procedures fellow BITOGers would supply here, what are the chances that the [leftover] kerosene would ignite in the engine after I start the engine with it's 20min oil bath ? I *really* worry about starting a fire doing this.

- Anything else I forgot to consider ?

Pardon my ignorance; I've never done this before. Appreciate any responses. Thanks.

 

[kc8adu]

i think the only hope now is to pull the pan and valve cover and clean up.
clean or replace the pickup and oilpump.
pull the main caps and look at the bearings.if chewed up and crank ok replace them.pray.

 

[Hirev]

Kerosene is not going to help your problem much if at all. Pull the valve cover throw some on it and let it soak over night with no brushing dump it out. You will see what I talking about. Its not a very good parts cleaner for sludge.

It sounds like there is already damage. You might try and remove the oil pan and cleaning the oil screen. The problem with lots of sludge is some of it moves around once the motor gets good and hot. Given the maintenance issues I find it hard to believe it will make it till Nov 07 without many issues.

 

[unDummy]

Some people need to learn a lesson. Have your GF read her lease. She is required to maintain the vehicle. Let here buy a new engine!
Don't be surprised if your lease company requests maintenance history during the final vehicle return inspection.

If you want to waste your time and resources, pull the VC and OP and scrub away. If you're lucky, your oil change caused some sludge to break away and clog the OP pickup. If it runs after the cleaning, pray that it lasts to 12/07.
If it runs after the cleaning, use a 15w40 oil and change frequently like every 2k miles.

If you don't want to pull the oil pan and valve cover, buy some biodiesel(or any solvent flush product). Add a gallon or 2 to the current oil. Find a long plastic chemical safe hose or tube(like from an oil extractors) and stick it down the disptick. Attach an air compressor to this tube and bubble away overnight(most solvents require movement to work). Drain out your solvent, change the filter and refill with that 15w40 oil. And, hope that your oil PSI comes back. If PSI comes back, drive 20 miles and change the oil/filter again to remove any residual chemicals.

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

No A-Rx? Then try Neutra. It won't cost you much to drop the pan and pull filter screen as opposed to a new engine.

This will be an interesting adventure. Not welcomed, but interesting.

 

[UzLess]

For the people following this thread...I *am* trying to get the mechanic to pull the pan / VC and clean for us. He's supposed to call us today with our options.

I had thought the consensus was to pull the pan *and* to do the kerosene soak. Looks to me like they're considered to be done separately from one another. Given that, I'm going to continue with the 'clean' routine if possible; after that, we'll ARX as planned, whenever the stuff gets here, and see what happens. Will post back with results.

 

[GearGuy]

I saw that same insert with the last order that I received. I was tempted to start a new thread...
No idea what they meant by it.

2oz per quart of oil seems very straight forward to me. The "IMPORTANT" insert just confuses things.

 

[UzLess]

Finally, some good news in our saga...

Mechanic called and said... "good news - the cleaning worked". He also said he'd get rid of the vehicle asap, but I think that was a general commment and not anything specific, w/ regard to bearing wear, etc. He didn't pull the valve cover, and when I asked about a pressure test, he said dismissively, IMO, "it doesn't need one - it's got great pressure". Of course, I'd like to qualify what 'great' means, so I'll probably go buy a pressure gauge and test myself.

Went to the parking lot, started it up, and...all seemed well. I drove it the short distance to her apt, and it seemed to have adequate power, quiet, etc. Popped the hood again, listened to the engine, took it up to 2000, 2500 rpm... told the GF to buy lottery tickets.

There's new oil and a new filter in it, so we're ready to start the ARX cycle - of course, now, after her nephew scared her off of it, she's not sure if she wants to add or not. It came in yesterday, BTW. Since he does mufflers & brakes, and I just saved her at least $5000 , I'm thinking she'll go with my advice, once I tell her what to do. She did ask me what I'd do if it were my car - my car being the Honda which I meticulously maintain, IMHO. Given that, I couldn't envision the scenario in which this would happen to me, and I told her so.

Q for Frank, if he sees this - all directions I've seen say 2oz per qt; I had calculated 8oz for our application . However, there was an insert in the printed materials that came with the box that said 'IMPORTANT', followed by directions to add an *extra* 2oz if new filter was involved, and giving an example of 12oz of ARX, instead of 10, for a 5qt sump. Since the application instructions *always* call for a new filter, even if you use existing oil, then by this sheet, you would always use Can you advise which is correct ? Since the mechanic added new oil, it's at the full mark, and I don't intend to drain 8oz out of the sump - I just want to pour in the ARX and go, per directions. I know 'overfilling' by up to 10oz isn't going to cause an issue; I just want to have the ratio correct, going in . Thanks.

For the others who still care to comment - I'm thinking about going with Rotella 5W-40 after the ARX cycle/cycles are complete. My other choice, if I stayed in mfg spec'd range, would be GTX 5W-30, since it has the "anti-sludge formula" tag on the bottle. Thoughts ? I *will* be doing the oil changes from this point out. And I will pull the valve cover at some point and perhaps the oil pan, since I got the Haynes manual for the car, and it looks like I can do both fairly easily. Thanks.

 

[dave1251]

Use any SM rated oil. The unique anit-sludge formula is marketing hype. The most important thing is to change the oil.

 

[BrianWC]

quote:

---

Originally posted by GearGuy:
I saw that same insert with the last order that I received. I was tempted to start a new thread...
No idea what they meant by it.

2oz per quart of oil seems very straight forward to me. The "IMPORTANT" insert just confuses things.

---

Because you don't HAVE to start with a new filter if you've got significant life left in your oil.

 

[GearGuy]

quote:

---

Originally posted by BrianWC:
Because you don't HAVE to start with a new filter if you've got significant life left in your oil.

---

I realize that.
But the basic jist of the insert is that if you put a new filter in, add an additional 2 oz.
To me, whether you put in a new filter or not, it should still be 2 oz. per quart of oil in the system.

 

[BrianWC]

It seems to me that the gist of it is you can use more arx for the first clean phase IF you use a new filter. If Frank's telling you to ALWAYS use a new filter, that's new, too. As previously, Frank has advised you are free to use your current filter and fill if you have at least the duration of the clean phase's life left in your oil. An extra two ounces of arx is going to give you an extra bit of cleaning. Arx has always tried to be results oriented.

 

[Frank]

What are you getting in the carton of your Auto-Rx ? you should be getting a brand new 4/4 color brochure with all the information you need.

Please e-mail me [email protected] copies of any other instructions .

Maintenace amount on non sludged engines is 2 ounces per quart of oil if you drive sludgebucket go to 3 ounces.

Use the cheapest filter you can get.

 

[UzLess]

Frank - will do. I'll scan / send them to you later today. The color brochure *is* in there, but there are other documents, too, including what I mentioned.

BrianWC, GearGuy - the instructions I've seen on the website and received in the box specifically state to use a new filter ['Step 1']- even if you don't change the oil in the engine first. Thus, a new filter would be required in all cases for a new application.

8oz of ARX is going in the 4qt sump of the RAV4 tonight, with < 50 mi currently on new oil / filter. Unless I'm told otherwise.

 

[BrianWC]

If you have less than 50 miles, that's a new filter, man.

 

[mburnickas]

So 3 oz per qt for Maintenace Amount (MA)? That is more then the standard ARX ammount for cleaning every 25K miles. That is also every oil change.

Example a 5 qt sys would be 15 ounces for MA. If I did a oil change every 7,500 miles that would be 45 ounces of ARX every 25K miles (approx). Would it not be cheaper to just do the cleaning every 25K for XXX dollars? Am I reading this right?