Trust it? '12-'14 Camry Trans Shudder TSB Letter

[SumpChump]

Well, it came in the mail...

My 2013 Camry 4cyl U760E transmission "Shudder on Light Throttle" letter to bring her in for a engine control unit update to minimize the Occitan e of shudder from lock up on light throttle at 30-50mph.

First off , I have no shudder. This update is clearly a comfort and driving experience issue. So I wonder had I better do it as it may have some "medicinal value" to keep the tranny working better and longer. Or rather, it may be a step backwards as they fudge with the computer and actuall out more mechanical stresses on the torque converter or tranny packs to create a smoother but less mechaniccall efficient driving experience.

So I got to thinking...." How would a computer update stop shudder?" (Kinda rhetorical)
Here's what I can think of, they tell the computer to put the throttle a little harder than the original electronic algorithm in the electronic pedal so that it goes into lock up quicker and with a firmer shift. Basically they use the computer to "reduce" the driver from using 'light throttle" and thereby having the shudder of a longer lockup.

Otherwise maybe the computer tells selenoid a some new pressures and to shift quicker. But I'll tell you what , the Camry when cold shift quick and relatively hard as it is. I'll be PO'd if it starts slamming for their update.

Any opinions on any if this?

And any opinions in why to have this 'performance and driving experience"
Update done or NOT done.

I fear a sacrifice of durability.

Also the last time this tranny has shudder issues in the 2008 series they addressed it with a fluid change. This time it looks like they may be saving on labor and new fluid by fudging the computer to cover the issue.

Dying to hear some thoughts.

 

[Charlie1935]

Not to sound like a smart a$$ but if you don't trust a company why would buy their product?

 

[silverrat]

Originally Posted By: Charlie1935
Not to sound like a smart a$$ but if you don't trust a company why would buy their product?


That's a bingo!

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: SumpChump


Also the last time this tranny has shudder issues in the 2008 series they addressed it with a fluid change. This time it looks like they may be saving on labor and new fluid by fudging the computer to cover the issue.

Dying to hear some thoughts.


What do you mean? Different fluid or fresh fluid?

 

[901Memphis]

It's an electronically controlled transmission, every aspect can be changed with the computer. I would have the TSB performed for sure.

 

[SumpChump]

Originally Posted By: Charlie1935
Not to sound like a smart a$$ but if you don't trust a company why would buy their product?


Ok CHAMP! thanks for getting us focused on the real topic.

Am I skeptical? Yes. Why change something in the works by doing so in a way that may affect longevity? They tested these cars or years prior to release. They were released with the guts and software to make money for the company. So monkeying around after the release , other than a true unforeseen structural aging frame issue or something, seems fishy.

No I don't trust companies, the dollar is their client, my job as consumer is to beware. I am being aware. This my posting.

But thanks for your valuable input in my consumer habits.

 

[SumpChump]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: SumpChump


Also the last time this tranny has shudder issues in the 2008 series they addressed it with a fluid change. This time it looks like they may be saving on labor and new fluid by fudging the computer to cover the issue.

Dying to hear some thoughts.


What do you mean? Different fluid or fresh fluid?



Fresh fluid is what they used in that similar instance.

 

[JamesBond]

Just wait, let others have it done and check the forums for their opinions on the fix.

 

[hpb]

Have it done. In my previous life as a dealership mechanic, we often reflashed ECU's as per instructions from the manufacturer, usually without the customer even knowing. Toyota aren't going to send out a software update that makes their cars less reliable.

 

[01rangerxl]

It's just about impossible to weed out every driving scenario in pre-production testing. I have some faith in programming updates as they are probably based on real world situations and scenarios that have come up since initial development.

I had all available updates, a decade's worth, done to my truck's PCM in 2012 (thanks Roadkingnc!), and don't regret it at all.

 

[hpb]

Exactly - the engineers can test, but once customers start driving the cars in the real world, issues can arise. When they do, manufacturers come up with fixes, which are then retrofitted to the vehicles already out there. There's no conspiracy, it's just how they resolve problems. Don't stress, just have the update done and know your car has the most up to date software installed.

 

[Greasymechtech]

Toyota has had the u660/u760 out for almost 8 years and they still need to work on the programming????

Get the update. Whining, shift flares, shudder, clunk downshifts, confusion.... all from the factory. You, the consumer, are the beta tester.

Sad that Sonnax has upgrades for this family.

I recommend an inline ATF filter and 30k partial or full fluid changes.

 

[PandaBear]

It could also be they found a bug in the software or algorithm that miscalculate the shift pressure or shift point for a particular temperature, speed, torque, and slope combination.

I'd bring it in to have them "fix" it, at least later, if you are worried that this "fix" will screw up something and an even newer "fix 2.0" will come out to fix the "fix 1.0".

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: SumpChump
Am I skeptical? Yes. Why change something in the works by doing so in a way that may affect longevity? They tested these cars or years prior to release. They were released with the guts and software to make money for the company. So monkeying around after the release , other than a true unforeseen structural aging frame issue or something, seems fishy.


As someone who does consumer device software engineering for a living, I'd say there are always software or hardware bugs that weren't discovered during R&D before manufacturing the first customer unit.

Most of the time it is because engineers made assumptions that are wrong, and with real world data from customers, engineers will need to fix the future products as well as fixing what is already in the field (on the road). This is the main reason why computers on everything (your phone, your car, your TV, your computer, your washing machine, your refrigerator, etc) keep logs of your usage, not because they care about what you do with your life, but to check what happen if something break, so they can fix it in the future. Most of the time these logs are "encrypted" or skip personal information (i.e. your phone number or what website you are browsing) but critical information would be logged (i.e. temperature, signal strength, sensor reading, battery state of charge).

Sometimes there are hardware (mechanical or electrical) design problem that cannot be fixed, and software will need to do awkward maneuver around a known design problem (i.e. avoid certain operation frequency that causes interferences).

 

[hpb]

^ Great explanation. OP, you've had lots of advice now, are you going to have the update done?

 

[SumpChump]

Yep , but bugs 8 years into a tranny design? I don't buy it. I think they are using the update as a patch for a mechanical issue. I don't like it one bit.

Ami I going to have it done? Nope, not now. I'll give them about 10months to muck up someone else and then check here for results.

 

[hpb]

Fair enough, your car, your choice. But...I doubt it's covering up a mechanical issue, more likely in the pursuit of fuel economy they've done things like apply converter lock-up sooner than in the previous models, and it's introduced a driveability concern, which this fix addresses. But if you're happy with the way it is presently, cool! Thanks for letting us know your decision.

 

[Greasymechtech]

Toyota is trying to prevent failing torque converters.

Get the reflash if you plan on keeping the vehicle past the warranty period.

 

[SteveSRT8]

This is a classic case of a programming, not mechanical problem.

GM has patented tech that locks and unlocks the TC extremely fast continuously and randomly to prevent this issue, Toyota could always make them an offer for the patent since they have 60 billion in the bank...