Truck & SUV "solution" to Fuel Prices/Demand

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quote:
Originally posted by 1sttruck:
In an article in the local paper a month or so back a gentleman bought his wife a diesel Excursion in order to significantly reduce fuel costs; they're making their own biodiesel at less than 90 cents a gallon :^)
Click to expand...
Lets think about this, spent 25-30k to spend less on fuel. Now that's rich. Assuming 20mpg, 12,000 miles per year .90 per gallon thats 545 per year for biodiesel versus 1800 a year for gas assuming 20mpg.
save 1300 a year on gas but spend 25k to save it, not to mention higher taxes, insurance, etc. Not counting all the time to make the biodiesel. Now I have to say I havent seen such brillance of reasoning in a long time. Spend 25k to save 1300 now that is smart.

Dan
 
"Lets think about this, spent 25-30k to spend less on fuel. Now that's rich. Assuming 20mpg, 12,000 miles per year ..... Now I have to say I havent seen such brillance of reasoning in a long time. Spend 25k to save 1300 now that is smart."

Yeah, what a bunch of dummies. Instead of buying a used Excursion they should spend $30k for a Honda min-van, not get much better or the same mileage in town, spend 3 times as much on fuel, and if they attempt to carry as many people, haul half as much, or tow anything, have it last half as long ! Yesirree, buy those PC acceptable alternatives. If they bought a BMW they'd spend more, get about the same mileage in town, but they'd be cool and no one would ever question their choice of vehicle.

Does an Excursion float like a duck ?
 
He already owned a truck, (since he was already making biodiesel for his pickup) so why not something like a VW Jetta TDI instead of an SUV.

If they needed to haul or tow, use the truck they already had, and when they didn't get even better fuel economy in the VW.
 
"He already owned a truck, (since he was already making biodiesel for his pickup) so why not something like a VW Jetta TDI instead of an SUV."

Since he already owned a truck why not get something like an Excursion diesel ?

If an SUV is evil then a Ferrari must be one of the devil's chariots, considering the mileage that some of the models get, but no one would be suggesting that he get a Jetta instead. Nor if he had purchased a mini-van or BMW.
 
He can get what he wants. We all have different values.

I value economy of operation, from the purchase price to the operating cost.

I simply point out that if the guy is trying to save money, there are more effective ways to do so.

Since he already has a diesel pickup, the argument that he needs the Excursion to tow seems pretty weak.

But it's his decision, he has to live with it. Including others poking holes in some of the justification behind such a purchase.

My question really wasn't answered, was it? Instead, the red-herring about the Ferrari was thrown in.

So what if a Ferrari gets bad gas mileage. The story is not about a Ferrari owner trying to save a buck.

So the Ferrari really is a non-sequitur.
 
"My question really wasn't answered, was it? Instead, the red-herring about the Ferrari was thrown in.

So what if a Ferrari gets bad gas mileage. The story is not about a Ferrari owner trying to save a buck."

The topic about evil trucks and SUVs using all of our resources quickly degenerates to just evil truck and SUVs, since the massed peasants, torches and pitch forks in hand, ignore all comments about other vehicles that also get poor mileage. The peasants, spit spraying everywhere as they scream about waste, also have the gall to complain about someone who is 'off the pump', who is making his own fuel out of waste products. Anyone making his own fuel has the right to drive whatever he wants, including a semi with 14 liter engine, while telling the rest of the hypocrites who are still 'on the pump', to go pound salt.

If the topic is about mileage then start with a list of vehicle mileage, such as the EPA list. I'll suggest starting with in town mileage of 18 mpg, as that is what my evil 3/4 ton 4x4 diesel often gets, a vehicle that is over 7000 lbs with the canopy and all the junk that I carry. If the topic is only about truck and SUV bashing then say so, find a torch, and rally with the rest of the peasants.
 
Personally, I don't view a THING as evil. Only people can be evil.

So it doesn't really matter if they buy a Ferrari or an Excursion. If they are doing it for selfish reasons, they are selfish in any case.

What defies logic is that the story to me was about someone trying to save a buck.

So, the argument about Ferrari vs Excursion doesn't address the logical disconnect about the fallacy of saving money with such a large vehicle.
 
"What defies logic is that the story to me was about someone trying to save a buck."

They did save a buck, comparing 90 cents a gallon for home made biodiesel with almost $3 a gallon for gas. Diesels can produce decent mileage in large vehicles, where weight for weight the diesels typically do better. They saved a buck, lots of them, and now the issue seems to be one of people questioning their choice of such a large vehicle. Obviously they weren't interested in maximum mileage, otherwise they would have purchased a smaller vehicle, but it seems acceptable to assume that since they drive a large truck and SUV that they're dumber than a bag of hammers, and everyone needs to point out that you can usually get better mileage in a smaller diesel powered vehicle.
 
1sstruck,

You miss the point, there are additional costs to making biodiesel yourself. Time, etc must be valued also. Also spending 30,000 to save 1300 is just plain stupid no matter how you put a pencil to it.

Dan
 
1sttruck,

Yes, I have to wonder why they need TWO large vehicles.

Maybe they do, there is no detail here.

All I was pointing out, as many others are pointing out, that if the objective was to save money, there are many, more effective ways of doing so.

However, I can buy the argument of just doing things because you like to do them. I change my own oil and use synthetic. I do each car, save my new one under warranty, every 6 months, which is an OCI of 10K to 15K depending on the vehicle.

The new one gets it's oil changed every 5K on Pennzoil 5W20 to maintain the warranty due to Toyota's 6 month or 5K mile recommended maintenance interval.

I could have saved a lot more money by not buying a new car. I could have kept my V8 T-bird and probably burned a little more gas, but spent a little less money.

So I get preference, and I'm not arguing against that.

What I'm questioning, and not as a judgment, more as a mental exercise, is how much more could they have saved by purchasing a more fuel efficient vehicle.

You see my question as a judgment against them from what I read.

I think you interpret my questions incorrectly. I have no anti-SUV motive. I don't care to own one, but I'll defend anyone's right to own one.

But I'll also laugh at them when they complain about the cost of driving.

Clear?
 
Maybe we should go after known oil reserves in the ground, and ban some of the no drilling bans. The government is driven by many things, but not common sense. People that want more drilling should buy some more politicians. They aren't very expensive and they are available everywhere. They accept many forms of payment and extend generous terms. Our problem is more basic than oil. We are controlled others for our economy. Our government is not helpings us, they are helping themselves. To ask them to fix the problem is hopeless. They are the problem. The world's greatest military is being stopped by a bunch of peepsqueak fighters with zip guns on their side and thoughtless policy on our side. You can't be nice and be secure at the same time, economically or otherwise. Just think, after hundreds of years as the dominant power in the world, we may well be defeated by a bunch of wetbacks walking across our border with bugs in a test tube. But don't worry, we're the nice guys.
 
Dan,
I read your links and did other research.
My degree is in Geology, and I keep up with developments and new theories as much as I can. No t that I'm an expert, but I tend to think the abiotic theory of oil formation is akin to the junk science you slam in regards to the global warming debate. I find it a bit amusing.
But we're all entitled to our opinions.
Here are a couple of easy links. I realize, of course, that there are tons of links and papers, etc. that will vindicate either position, but the huge majority of geologists aren't on board with the abiotic theory so far.

http://www.museletter.com/archive/150b.html

http://fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/100404_abiotic_oil.shtml
 
quote:
Originally posted by 1sttruck:

The topic about evil trucks and SUVs using all of our resources quickly degenerates to just evil truck and SUVs, since the massed peasants, torches and pitch forks in hand, ignore all comments about other vehicles that also get poor mileage. The peasants, spit spraying everywhere as they scream about waste, also have the gall to complain about someone who is 'off the pump', who is making his own fuel out of waste products. Anyone making his own fuel has the right to drive whatever he wants, including a semi with 14 liter engine, while telling the rest of the hypocrites who are still 'on the pump', to go pound salt.

If the topic is about mileage then start with a list of vehicle mileage, such as the EPA list. I'll suggest starting with in town mileage of 18 mpg, as that is what my evil 3/4 ton 4x4 diesel often gets, a vehicle that is over 7000 lbs with the canopy and all the junk that I carry. If the topic is only about truck and SUV bashing then say so, find a torch, and rally with the rest of the peasants.
Click to expand...
The problem is not that SUVs and trucks ONLY are "evil" - but they are what the masses choose and what the masses buy. And, leverage on the masses is what causes a lot of the wild swings in fuel proces that we see around hurricane season, or when any cook around the world flexes their muscles.

People that buy ferarris, in general, dont use them as daily drivers, going on 50 mile each way commutes. Maybe some do, maybe some use chaufeurred limmos instead that get similar economy, maybe some use helicopters that get horrendous mileage equivalent - are any of these better than the average joe consumer that wants to utilize their freedom and make a fashion stateent, so they buy a hige V8 suv for trips to the mall and supermarken and in case they need to get something big at Home Depot? Nope, no difference, but the elite rich area very small population and the no analysis joe is a very large population - large populations of people in weak powitions get taken adventage of - nothing new there - and as they take advantage of the SUV crowd by disproportionately raising fuel prices, everyone suffers except for a select few.

1sttruck, lets think about this... I am a fan of your truck setup, and have said so many a time... but do you really, truely, honestly think that average joe consumer did the analysis and consideration that you did when deciding what vehicle to buy? Do you think average joe consumer would be caught dead in a loss leader ram diesel (remember what the public thinks about diesels)? Do you think the average joe consumer would have the know-how to set up seating in the bed of a pickup, do the tests and sealing for carbon monoxide, etc.? Does the average joe consumer carpool???

As much as you apparently want to back the SUV owners and say that trucks are good (which I will not deny) - I wouldhave to say that you are an exception to the rule, certainly not the rule.

Average joe consumer which is the SUV driver with seatng for 9 but only 2.1 kids, whowould never be a DIYer that would need to carry heavy or large stuff, who is cash strapped and only cares about keeping up with the joneses and showing off is the population that is causing a lot of the mess - sure there are outliers that are much better or much worse, but average joe can, and is, being taken advantage of, and all of the small guys, watching their bottom line, driving efficent vehiclesand trying to save a few bucks are getting hurt just as bad, because $3 gas for the SUVers is still $3 gas for the econobox 40+ MPG crowd. Using less is no concession.

JMH
 
I have a "loss leader" Nissan Titan XE CC 4x2 that I paid $22,400 for new.

It does definitely suck down some gas compared to an economy car. (getting around 17 in mixed driving) But then again, it doesn't get much worse mileage than many mid-sized SUV's with V6's and many less HP.

I am 6'7" and 260 lbs. I need a fairly large vehicle. I would love it if someone would offer a medium to large sized pickup with a fuel thrifty diesel, that could be run on biodiesel (Which is sold around here for $2.75 regardless of pump diesel pricing).

But nobody offers such an animal in the US. I don't need a diesel with 500 or 600 lb-ft of torque. The Titan has way more HP and torque than I need anyways.

When are the manufacturers going to step up and meet our needs?
 
this is a good point... unfortunately they meet what joe consumer wants, and not what most reasonable people might deisre (because the reasonable folks are a very small minority!).

JMH
 
quote:
Originally posted by JHZR2:

quote:
Originally posted by joatmon:

PS: JHZR2, thanks for not participating.
Click to expand...
Oh thats a great, mature way to behave
rolleyes.gif


Sorry, I forgot, you are the most wonderful, most perfect person, and you have it all figured out. You can do nothing wrong. Of courseyour ____ doesn't stink.

___ forbid anyone have an opinion that differs from yours.

Sheesh, lets be 9-year olds...
rolleyes.gif


Love,

Pickup truck owner JMH
Click to expand...
I do apologise if this remark offended you in some way. To clarify, I thought one of the following might have occured:

1. You may have "softened" your position on "having to justify vehicle purchased" based on "needs".

2. Since this topic has been discussed under various topic headings, another rehash wasn't needed.

I guess this isn't the case.

Sorry.
 
quote:
Originally posted by JHZR2:

quote:
Originally posted by 1sttruck:

The topic about evil trucks and SUVs using all of our resources quickly degenerates to just evil truck and SUVs, since the massed peasants, torches and pitch forks in hand, ignore all comments about other vehicles that also get poor mileage. The peasants, spit spraying everywhere as they scream about waste, also have the gall to complain about someone who is 'off the pump', who is making his own fuel out of waste products. Anyone making his own fuel has the right to drive whatever he wants, including a semi with 14 liter engine, while telling the rest of the hypocrites who are still 'on the pump', to go pound salt.

If the topic is about mileage then start with a list of vehicle mileage, such as the EPA list. I'll suggest starting with in town mileage of 18 mpg, as that is what my evil 3/4 ton 4x4 diesel often gets, a vehicle that is over 7000 lbs with the canopy and all the junk that I carry. If the topic is only about truck and SUV bashing then say so, find a torch, and rally with the rest of the peasants.
Click to expand...
The problem is not that SUVs and trucks ONLY are "evil" - but they are what the masses choose and what the masses buy. And, leverage on the masses is what causes a lot of the wild swings in fuel proces that we see around hurricane season, or when any cook around the world flexes their muscles.

People that buy ferarris, in general, dont use them as daily drivers, going on 50 mile each way commutes. Maybe some do, maybe some use chaufeurred limmos instead that get similar economy, maybe some use helicopters that get horrendous mileage equivalent - are any of these better than the average joe consumer that wants to utilize their freedom and make a fashion stateent, so they buy a hige V8 suv for trips to the mall and supermarken and in case they need to get something big at Home Depot? Nope, no difference, but the elite rich area very small population and the no analysis joe is a very large population - large populations of people in weak powitions get taken adventage of - nothing new there - and as they take advantage of the SUV crowd by disproportionately raising fuel prices, everyone suffers except for a select few.

1sttruck, lets think about this... I am a fan of your truck setup, and have said so many a time... but do you really, truely, honestly think that average joe consumer did the analysis and consideration that you did when deciding what vehicle to buy? Do you think average joe consumer would be caught dead in a loss leader ram diesel (remember what the public thinks about diesels)? Do you think the average joe consumer would have the know-how to set up seating in the bed of a pickup, do the tests and sealing for carbon monoxide, etc.? Does the average joe consumer carpool???

As much as you apparently want to back the SUV owners and say that trucks are good (which I will not deny) - I wouldhave to say that you are an exception to the rule, certainly not the rule.

Average joe consumer which is the SUV driver with seatng for 9 but only 2.1 kids, whowould never be a DIYer that would need to carry heavy or large stuff, who is cash strapped and only cares about keeping up with the joneses and showing off is the population that is causing a lot of the mess - sure there are outliers that are much better or much worse, but average joe can, and is, being taken advantage of, and all of the small guys, watching their bottom line, driving efficent vehiclesand trying to save a few bucks are getting hurt just as bad, because $3 gas for the SUVers is still $3 gas for the econobox 40+ MPG crowd. Using less is no concession.

JMH
Click to expand...
Who would be this "average joe consumer" to whom you refer. Do you have a problem with a certain individual in this regard? Speaking for myself and a few friends and neighbors that own large SUV's, I'll submit the following:

1. We are law abiding.
2. We generally live well within our means. Several to whom I refer have no debt, no mortgage.
3. We aren't out to make "fashion statements". As an example, I sold a 9 month old BMW 530i, 5 speed, with sport pack after I bought my current SUV. I think most would think that the BMW makes a better "fashion statement" than the Suburban.
4. We haul people, lumber, pine straw, etc. on a regular basis.
5. We'd love to have multiple vehicles at our disposal, but it seems that one utility vehicle is better because it:
a) uses fewer natural resources that having say, a pickup truck and a sedan,
b) insurance and taxes on multi vehicles negate some if not all potential savings,
c) you eliminate excess miles because you are never caught in the "wrong" vehicle, and
d) all vehicles can be garaged leaving a "tidy" appearance in the neighborhood.

Now, JMH, you probably still think I'm wrong. And that's OK.
 
The whole anti-SUV thing smacks of these things -

Anyone buying a vehicle that uses more fuel than what I drive is wasteful.

Anyone buying a vehicle for reasons I don't agree with is wasteful.

IOW, I know better than you do and you should be punished for not agreeing with me. It's no wonder that attitude gets ignored. It couldn't be more arrogant.
 
quote:
Originally posted by jsharp:
The whole anti-SUV thing smacks of these things -

Anyone buying a vehicle that uses more fuel than what I drive is wasteful.

Anyone buying a vehicle for reasons I don't agree with is wasteful.

IOW, I know better than you do and you should be punished for not agreeing with me. It's no wonder that attitude gets ignored. It couldn't be more arrogant.
Click to expand...
Yep! Uh, what kind of car do you want me to drive? OK. And, when should I expect you to send it over?
 
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