Trouble with Spark Plug Removal

[supton]

I just did the plugs on my Camry, they are straight up/down and about six inches into the head. I took a piece of painters tape and put onto the socket so I could lift the plug out. A 1 or 2 inch long piece, insert half into the socket, half out. Just enough to make some drag on the plug, that way you can lift the plug out.

Don't use too much tape. Otherwise it may overcome the holding force of the extension. Painters tape won't last long, due to grease on the metal surfaces; but I didn't have the "proper" socket with a rubber boot on the inside, and this worked well enough for the 12 plugs I needed to do.

 

[JTK]

I've always been on the anti-seize team. I apply a dab on spark plug threads, especially on aluminum heads and any engine where plug changes aren't easy. I hope the subsequent owners appreciate it.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Trav
so whats your point?


My point is in response to the inability to understand why NGK says not to use anti-seize. My point is that in a relatively high mileage engine where the plug change intervals are close to 100,000 miles, I have used NGK spark plugs in an aluminum head with no anti-seize and have yet to have a problem removing the plugs. My point is that I think the instructions from NGK are correct regardless of assertions that anti-seize is needed.

Furthermore I agree that using anti-seize without altering the torque reading makes it too easy to strip an aluminum head. But that's just a feeling and wasn't part of my point.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: JTK
I've always been on the anti-seize team. I apply a dab on spark plug threads, especially on aluminum heads and any engine where plug changes aren't easy. I hope the subsequent owners appreciate it.



I'll stick with it too, especially since two of my engines have aluminum heads. I recently threw plugs in two boat engines, a 351 V8, and a 3.0L I4. The 3.0L plugs were rusted in a bit, the 351 we did a few years back and coated them with anti-seize and it made a big difference compared to the 3.0L that had none.

 

[Ramblejam]

 

[Leo99]

Originally Posted By: supton
I just did the plugs on my Camry, they are straight up/down and about six inches into the head. I took a piece of painters tape and put onto the socket so I could lift the plug out. A 1 or 2 inch long piece, insert half into the socket, half out. Just enough to make some drag on the plug, that way you can lift the plug out.

Don't use too much tape. Otherwise it may overcome the holding force of the extension. Painters tape won't last long, due to grease on the metal surfaces; but I didn't have the "proper" socket with a rubber boot on the inside, and this worked well enough for the 12 plugs I needed to do.


https://www.amazon.com/GearWrench-80546-...ark+plug+socket

works great

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Trav
so whats your point?

My point is that I think the instructions from NGK are correct regardless of assertions that anti-seize is needed.

 

[mcgophers]

Thanks for the tips y'all. I got the plugs out and replaced them with new NKGs. Sounds much better, although not perfect, upon startup. It turns out that part of my problem was the rubber grommet in the socket kept coming out.

Next thing to do is change out the oil (only ~2500 miles on it, but it looks nasty) and put some new brake fluid in. With the temperatures in the 90s here right now, I'm in no rush to do that for a car I'm barely driving.

EDIT: I saw the service bulletin after I put the new plugs in using copper anti-seize. I think I'll be alright though. In my defense, there were no directions in my box specifying whether or not to use anti-seize.

 

[willbur]

Trav-
I understand one is not to remove plugs from a warm/hot motor. Only cold. These instructions are posted by sp makers themselves. Please clarify.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: willbur
Trav-
I understand one is not to remove plugs from a warm/hot motor. Only cold. These instructions are posted by sp makers themselves. Please clarify.


That is 100% correct. In the case of stuck plugs in aluminum heads (not iron) the head expands at a greater rate than the steel plugs.

That little bit of expansion can aid in pulling plugs that many otherwise pull the threads, its not something you want to do without good reason.
Never under any circumstances install plugs in a hot aluminum head, when it cools it can lock them in tighter than a bulls Ahole in a hurricane.

 

[Brad_C]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Trav
so whats your point?

My point is that I think the instructions from NGK are correct regardless of assertions that anti-seize is needed.

Oh come on Trav. This is the internet. That magical place where one mans single anecdotal evidence can invalidate 40 years of experience with a few small keystrokes.

Btw, I use a dab of anti-seize too. Although I don't have the ceramic stuff, I just use a bit of copper. To be honest, I've encountered more cross threaded plug in alloy heads than seized that were properly inserted.

 

[Doog]

I always use anti-seize on plugs. I just don't do the incredible hulk installation torque. Never a problem. To get plugs out of a recessed hole I break the plug loose then pull the socket off and push a piece of clear plastic tubing over the end of the plug and finish unscrewing and lifting out with the tubing. If the plug is stuck the tubing will simply spin and then I know I need to use the socket some more.

To install the plugs, I simply put a dab of anti seize on and thread them in using the plastic tubing until hand tight...then finish with the socket. This avoids cross threading as the tubing will again spin if it meets too much resistance. The anti seize acts as a lubricant.

 

[willbur]

Trav-
That's what I do, too. But why do sp makets and auto forums recommend not to pull plugs from a warm/hot engine? Thermal expansion coefs of alum vs. steel do support removal from a warm engine.Just curious...

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Brad_C
Oh come on Trav. This is the internet. That magical place where one mans single anecdotal evidence can invalidate 40 years of experience with a few small keystrokes.

Btw, I use a dab of anti-seize too. Although I don't have the ceramic stuff, I just use a bit of copper. To be honest, I've encountered more cross threaded plug in alloy heads than seized that were properly inserted.


OK, sure. You mean my anecdotal evidence that follows the manufacturer's logic and instructions, as opposed to someone else's anecdotal evidence that is contrary to the manufacturer's instructions and can lead to overtorquing and breakage as shown in their bulletin?

 

[Trav]

Sure its in the manufacturer's instructions until the $hit hits the fan and they issue a TSB to use anti seize.

Quote:
NOTE
NEW PLUGS SHOULD BE INSTALLED USING A FILM COATING OF HIGH TEMPERATURE NICKEL ANTI-SEIZE LUBRICANT


Champion even makes a anti seize product for spark plugs. This one is graphite based and there is another one that is ceramic based for plugs.

http://www.pilotshop.com/catalog/eppages/antiseize.php?gclid=CMvmgerwy84CFQxahgodIaUAEQ

 

[CharlieBauer]

Originally Posted By: Ramblejam

Interesting! Thanks for posting.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: willbur
Trav-
That's what I do, too. But why do sp makets and auto forums recommend not to pull plugs from a warm/hot engine? Thermal expansion coefs of alum vs. steel do support removal from a warm engine.Just curious...


The concern isn't really removing them its putting them back in hot, they could strip very easy. some claim that removing them hot can cause them to pull the threads easier or the plug hole will distort but I haven't found that to be the case.
Old VW Beetle engines could be a real bugger cold but came right out warm (not hot).

I only do them warm on these and engines that the plugs are seriously stuck. I did a Subaru that had NGK with the coating and they were really stuck in there, they wouldn't budge at all, got it hot and pulled them, they came out with some force but didn't strip.
Consider it a hail Mary pass.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Sure its in the manufacturer's instructions until the $hit hits the fan and they issue a TSB to use anti seize.

Quote:
NOTE
NEW PLUGS SHOULD BE INSTALLED USING A FILM COATING OF HIGH TEMPERATURE NICKEL ANTI-SEIZE LUBRICANT


Champion even makes a anti seize product for spark plugs. This one is graphite based and there is another one that is ceramic based for plugs.

http://www.pilotshop.com/catalog/eppages/antiseize.php?gclid=CMvmgerwy84CFQxahgodIaUAEQ


OK well let's just invent problems then. And we were talking about NGK plugs here, not Champion which may not have such a coating.

 

[Trav]

They have the coating. Hey your engine do what you want. I have had engines the NGK coating didn't prevent the plugs from seizing, one set of stuck plugs is enough to make a believer.

 

[HM12460]

Originally Posted By: Brybo86
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Put the one plug back in and start the car. Make sure the hood is open and put a blanket over the engine.

If your threads are THAT boogered, the plugs will "pop" right out.

Classic.

This is why I love BITOG.






Lol! I just love it too!