Triple Lab Showdown: Mobil 1 AFE 0w-30, 3.5k mi; '24 Ford Bronco 2.7L EB 14.5k mi

[2.7ecoboostFordBronco]

Just for fun, all 3 taken from the same oil drain. Main differences seem to be fuel dilution (Speediagnostix showing ~1/2 Oil Analyzers and Blackstone "estimating" less than 1/5th OA); then big differences in Ca & Mg between the SpeeDiagnostix report and the other two. Switched this vehicle to HPL PP PCMO 0W-30 on HPL's recommendation, have at least one more analysis with this M1 AFE in my other Bronco though. Wear metal results seem pretty even between all 3 labs.

 

[Virtuoso]

Always wanted to see something like this, that's great. Thank you.

 

[himemsys]

So the two things I've noticed a lot from SD reports are shown here: lower than expected fuel dilution and very low additives. Look at calcium and magnesium, compared to the other two labs.

Does anyone know, does SD use gas chromatography?

 

[fantastic]

So the two things I've noticed a lot from SD reports are shown here: lower than expected fuel dilution and very low additives. Look at calcium and magnesium, compared to the other two labs.

Does anyone know, does SD use gas chromatography?

They should, the lab they use has the capability. Predictive Maintenance

 

[2.7ecoboostFordBronco]

They should, the lab they use has the capability. Predictive Maintenance

I can't find anything that says directly if SpeeDiagnostix use gas chromatography. There are some porsche club forum posts and 3rd party websites (LN engineering) that claim that they do. If that's the case I don't know why their fuel dilution % is consistently 1/2 to 1/3 what OA shows. Predictive Maintenance lab seems to indicate they use flash point https://www.theoillab.com/Services. PM says they are ISO 17025 certified like Polaris/Horizon/OA. I don't know why SD/PM add pack levels are consistently low (saying that because BS and OA both match a lot more closely especially on Ca, Mg, and P).

I will also say that blackstone has improved a lot on turnaround time compared to about a year ago. They've only taken about 2 weeks to get me results lately from Alaska, fastest of the 3. If they would just use gas chromatopraphy it seems they would be OK again.

 

[fantastic]

I can't find anything that says directly if SpeeDiagnostix use gas chromatography. There are some porsche club forum posts and 3rd party websites (LN engineering) that claim that they do. If that's the case I don't know why their fuel dilution % is consistently 1/2 to 1/3 what OA shows. Predictive Maintenance lab seems to indicate they use flash point https://www.theoillab.com/Services. PM says they are ISO 17025 certified like Polaris/Horizon/OA. I don't know why SD/PM add pack levels are consistently low (saying that because BS and OA both match a lot more closely especially on Ca, Mg, and P).

Speediagnostix isn't saying GC method anywhere that I can see either but I will say the lab they use does have the capability to do GC Fuel. Go to the very bottom of the page, I link below, under testing other options & you'll see GC Fuel. This lab seems to charge extra for that service so a lot of standard testing kits may not include that. It would be interesting to know if Speed does or does not on their kits. My Schaeffers branded oil testing kits use this lab & I pay an extra $17.33 to get the GC fuel as an example.
https://www.theoillab.com/About-Us/Analysis

• Fuel Dilution by GC (ASTM D3524M*, ASTM D3525M*)

 

[OVERKILL]

I'd ask to have the Speed sample re-tested, given how much lower the additive levels are compared to the other two.

 

[Artem]

What do you expect from a “speedy” Lab. The tech writes down the data from the machine before it fully stops spinning and just moves to the next line.

 

[Oliveoil2]

How was your Bronco driven? How many months on this OCI?

 

[2.7ecoboostFordBronco]

How was your Bronco driven? How many months on this OCI?

6 weeks about 75% highway about 25% city with a fair bit of idling to keep interior warm on cold days. 2 off roading trips (6-7 hours each) with a little bit of driving in 4 low and lower speeds/higher rpm & temps.

 

[2.7ecoboostFordBronco]

Speediagnostix isn't saying GC method anywhere that I can see either but I will say the lab they use does have the capability to do GC Fuel. Go to the very bottom of the page, I link below, under testing other options & you'll see GC Fuel. This lab seems to charge extra for that service so a lot of standard testing kits may not include that. It would be interesting to know if Speed does or does not on their kits. My Schaeffers branded oil testing kits use this lab & I pay an extra $17.33 to get the GC fuel as an example.
https://www.theoillab.com/About-Us/Analysis

• Fuel Dilution by GC (ASTM D3524M*, ASTM D3525M*)

Via email LSJ said gas that gas chromatography is what they use to detect and measure fuel dilution for the speediagnostix reports.

 

[himemsys]

Via email LSJ said gas that gas chromatography is what they use to detect and measure fuel dilution for the speediagnostix reports.

As far as I know, you are the first to test these two labs with the same sample, so it's hard to make any conclusions with a sample size of 1. But it's something to keep our eyes on going forward. Did you happen to ask if they'd retest due to the unusually low additive levels?

 

[2.7ecoboostFordBronco]

As far as I know, you are the first to test these two labs with the same sample, so it's hard to make any conclusions with a sample size of 1. But it's something to keep our eyes on going forward. Did you happen to ask if they'd retest due to the unusually low additive levels?

I did send the 20 DEC sample to both OA and SD in addition to this recent 31 JAN sample. 20 DEC showed a similar disparity in fuel dilution % as 31 JAN. I did ask for SD for a rerun of this one from 31 JAN, awaiting a response.

 

[2.7ecoboostFordBronco]

Added charts and graphs for easier to visualize comparisons

 

[2.7ecoboostFordBronco]

Speediagnostix said they re-ran their sample and the same result repeated; I didn’t get a second analysis report to go with that.

 

[OVERKILL]

Speediagnostix said they re-ran their sample and the same result repeated; I didn’t get a second analysis report to go with that.

Then I think this just underscores the limited utility of UOA's for comparative stuff where folks fret about and try to draw meaningful conclusions from variations of a couple of PPM, while we are seeing HUNDREDS of PPM variance in some of these elements between these three labs.

As has been said repeatedly on here, UOA's are meant to determine the health, and suitability for continued use of the lubricant through trending. Establish what's "normal" and then monitor for significant deviations from that. They are not a tool to fine tune lubricant selection through the "optimization" of wear metals, and attempting to use them for that purpose is an exercise in futility.

 

[2.7ecoboostFordBronco]

I didn't think this was worthy of it's own thread but I did an early change on the HPL Premium Plus PCMO 0W-30 after 500 miles so that the following 5000 mile interval has less of the old M1 AFE remaining. I also wanted to see how fast the engine is diluting fuel. After just 500 miles it was already at 3.4%.

I do like that the HPL only lost 0.8 cSt (10.5 -> 9.7) at 3.4% vs the M1 AFE losing 1.8 cSt at 3.3% (10.7 -> 8.9). Granted it was a 500 vs 4000 change interval so not apples to apples, but it seems that there is more at play than a simple mixture calculation. Or maybe it's all within the margins of error for the viscosity and fuel dilution measurements and completely meaningless.

 

[MitchB]

A few months ago after sending an oil sample to Speediagnostix, in response to a delay in processing my sample, they sent me an email stating that their gas chromatograph was being repaired/replaced.

 

[2.7ecoboostFordBronco]

A few months ago after sending an oil sample to Speediagnostix, in response to a delay in processing my sample, they sent me an email stating that their gas chromatograph was being repaired/replaced.

Hmm interesting. I wonder if I could do another triple comparison with a new third lab and drop blackstone? It would be nice if I could get two labs within 50% of each other on fuel dilution! I just assumed that Horizon/OA was the more accurate due to reputation. At the end of the day I guess there’s just not a real certain way to know. Maybe wearcheck?

 

[MitchB]

Try Polaris: https://polarislabs.com/

Many outfits offering oil analysis send their samples to Polaris.