Trasmission: To flush or not to flush???

[Aspen7]

I picked up the Camaro from the garage this evening. Though I told them I wanted a trans fluid change only, they told me they flushed it! I hope I'm not going to be very sorry this happened. I've been reading up on this subject on the net this evening, which has me worried. I asked them to give me quotes on my #1 List (all the repairs that I need to have done asap). With the exception of the exhaust, they took the initiative of going ahead with the actual repairs without calling me first. Here's the list as it's written on the bill: Oil & filter $19.95 Change oil/check fluids $20.00 Trans flush $99.95 Dexron111 12 at $45.48 Repair fuel line and tank $60.00 Fuel hose $11.85 Repair shifter linkage $20.00 Clean and adjust rear brakes $40.00 Repair engine vacuum leaks $40.00 Vacuum hose 45.95 Shop supplies $5.00 Total $374.93 When I got in the car to back out of their parking area, it wouldn't go into reverse for all the tea in china, so I went back into the shop. There was a man at the counter talking to the mechanic. This guy was telling the mechanic that he was sick of waiting for money from him, which should have all been paid back by now. He wanted the mechanic to tell him when he was going to pay him off. The mechanic pointed out that he had a customer standing there. The guy turned around, looked me over and made a candid comment about his opinion of my looks, then told the mechanic he'd get off his case for one more week if he could give him $100 cash right then. The mechanic gave him the cash and he left. YIKES! That was beyond awkward. So anyway, the mechanic apologized with a very red face, after which I told him the car wouldn't shift into reverse. I was there another hour waiting around while him and his partner worked on it. Now it's shifting with no problems and I can park it without it rolling away. As for the brakes, they aren't one bit better than they were when I took it in this morning. The car won't make a sudden stop, it coasts to a stop. So the car is going back to the garage in the morning. Once he actually fixes my brakes, I'll never get near that garage again.

 

[Cup of Joe]

I wouldn't take it back unless you would like to part with more of your money. Adjusting the rear brakes will make very little difference in braking performance. He did do the work he billed for, but it was not the real problem. New/different service another charge. I would just take it somewhere else. You haven't said anything about "brake feel". Is the pedal soft or spongy? Is there excessive pedal travel? Have you tried pumping the brake pedal? Parked and/or while coming to a stop? If so did the pedal firm up and hold or slowly sink? The answers to these questions can go along way to finding the real problem. He should have road tested the car before and after his work, if he had he would have known the transmission was not shifting into reverse instead of having egg on his face. Any good mechanic would start with a simple brake bleed and see if the brake pedal firmed up and performance improved. A little autoshop 101 if there is air in the brake lines the air will compress more then brake fluid when the brake pedal is depressed which lowers the force applied to each wheel. If you pump the brakes quickly the air is compressed further and braking will improve. I would still suggest going to a chain like NAPA or Carquest that has a service center. If for some reason there is a problem while your daughter is out of town there are Napa's and Carquests across the country that will warranty/guarantee any repairs that have been made at one of their locations. Any shop that does repairs not authorized is not getting my business. I have never paid for a quote unless it involved a diagnositic service I could not perform.

 Quote:

Guaranteed Coast-to-Coast Parts purchased at CARQUEST that are submitted for a warranty claim, may be exchanged free of charge (excluding labor costs) at any CARQUEST store in North America.

 Quote:

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[Aspen7]

The brakes feel very soft and the pedal has to be pushed almost to the floor before there is a response. The car doesn't come to an immediate stop, it slowly coasts about 6 feet until it stops completely. Pumping the pedal does increase the firmness and it will hold as long as I keep my foot on it.

 

[Cup of Joe]

Sounds like air in the lines to me. A quick brake bleed maybe some fresh fluid and it should be fine. A good inspection of the rubber lines is order of course. People forget all about brake fluid so it maybe over due for some attention.

 

[TooManyWheels]

+1 to all of T&N's comments so far, especially about brake bleeding. The fact that the shop let the car go like that is unprofessional, unconscienable, etc.

 

[Aspen7]

 Originally Posted By: TooManyWheels

The fact that the shop let the car go like that is unprofessional, unconscionable, etc.

The whole experience at that garage was negative. The man running the place was down right unpersonable. Not even so much as a, "Good morning" or a hint of a smile when we walked in the door. By the time I'd finished explaining my concerns about the car I had come to the conclusion the guy was either having a really bad day, or he just generally disliked his job. Then later when the flush was done after I said I wanted a change, and repairs were gone ahead with after I said I wanted him to call me with his verdict and a quote first. Then the last straw was discovering that he hadn't even driven the car after the repairs to see if the shift and brakes were as they should be. Oh yeah, and there was the odd scene with the guy who apparently lent the mechanic some money and was making a scene over him being late on his payments. A bad experience all the way around

 

[Cutehumor]

very tough position. I would have not flushed that 30 year old trans. Just a pan drop/fill. Plus, he didn't drain the brake fluid correctly. I would pop open the hood to make sure the brake fluid reservior has enough fluid. He could have bled the brake fluid and didn't fill the brake master cyclinder.

 

[Aspen7]

 Originally Posted By: Cutehumor

very tough position. I would have not flushed that 30 year old trans. Just a pan drop/fill. Plus, he didn't drain the brake fluid correctly. I would pop open the hood to make sure the brake fluid reservior has enough fluid. He could have bled the brake fluid and didn't fill the brake master cyclinder.

I was upset when I learned he'd gone ahead with a flush. I hope he didn't screw it up. He said he didn't drain the brake fluid. I told him I thought that may have helped, but he insisted it would be a waste of time. He said the problem was all due to leaks in vacuum lines, but obviously that's not the case, because the brakes are no better. I think he's wrong. Several people have told me the brakes should be bled.

 

[Aspen7]

 Originally Posted By: TaterandNoodles

Sounds like air in the lines to me. A quick brake bleed maybe some fresh fluid and it should be fine. A good inspection of the rubber lines is order of course. People forget all about brake fluid so it maybe over due for some attention.

I want to have this done (or better yet, learn how to do it myself). I don't understand why the mechanic wouldn't deal with the problem. I talked to him today because I wanted him to know the brakes weren't one bit better. He told me to bring it back & he'd take a look. So though I didn't want to see him again, I took it back. He had it about 20 minutes, then told me there's nothing else that can be done and handed me my keys. I know he's full of hog wash.

 

[unDummy]

Get it bled somewhere else. Does anyone else notice that it looks like shop is practicing 'double charging' on that invoice? I wouldn't even go back there for anything. A shop that doesn't pay its suppliers or ex-employees has issues.

 

[Aspen7]

 Originally Posted By: unDummy

Get it bled somewhere else. Does anyone else notice that it looks like shop is practicing 'double charging' on that invoice? I wouldn't even go back there for anything. A shop that doesn't pay its suppliers or ex-employees has issues.

I admit to total ignorance of garage billing discrepancies even if they're right in plain view. What am I missing?

 

[65cuda]

My opinion is to drop the pan and change the fluid and filter. After that try sucking out through the filler tube what you can every week or so and replace the same amount with fresh fluid.

 

[rshunter]

 Originally Posted By: Aspen7

I admit to total ignorance of garage billing discrepancies even if they're right in plain view. What am I missing?

He's breaking out the materials charges from the service charges. Even though his service charges should cover much of the materials, considering the price. It's a nice way to charge inflated prices for a given job while trying to make it look like a deal. For instance, he turned the $19.95 oil change into a $39.95 oil change after billing you another $20 for the oil. Nice guy...

 

[Cup of Joe]

 Originally Posted By: rshunter

 Originally Posted By: Aspen7

I admit to total ignorance of garage billing discrepancies even if they're right in plain view. What am I missing?

He's breaking out the materials charges from the service charges. Even though his service charges should cover much of the materials, considering the price. It's a nice way to charge inflated prices for a given job while trying to make it look like a deal. For instance, he turned the $19.95 oil change into a $39.95 oil change after billing you another $20 for the oil. Nice guy...

I will kindly disagree. Its an itemized bill and a $39 oil change is not out of line. A oil change at the Havoline express lube 4 years ago was $35 plus tax. I can justify every charge on the bill. We also don't know if he has posted prices in his customer service area. It may list the oil change as a flat $39.95 but on the bill it is broken down materials and labor.

 

[Cup of Joe]

 Originally Posted By: Aspen7

 Originally Posted By: TaterandNoodles

Sounds like air in the lines to me. A quick brake bleed maybe some fresh fluid and it should be fine. A good inspection of the rubber lines is order of course. People forget all about brake fluid so it maybe over due for some attention.

I want to have this done (or better yet, learn how to do it myself).

It's not hard and pretty cheap to do. For a driveway mechanic all you need is jack and a set of jack stands, 1 wrench (assuming you know the size you need) some tubing I prefer clear, a clear juice bottle and someone to pump the brakes is about all you need. Oh left out fresh brake fluid to add to the master cylinder. All that being said I would not suggest this being your 1st attempt. I've had broken off bleed valves, rounded valves, seized valves and on more then one occasion end up replacing a wheel cylinder or caliper. I've been there and done that, its no fun. What you can do if you are interested is see if the local community college has an autoshop class you can take. It will teach you more then you even want to know and they should have hands on classes. You will have the opportunity to perform maintenance on your own car while having an instructor available. This will boost your confidence in your own abilities and give you the knowledge to know what you can and what you should have someone else do for you. My 1 year old will be taking a autoshop class. I've had college kids trying to figure out how to change their oil with a scissor jack and a empty milk container no oil or filter on hand. When he asked for help I pointed that out.

 

[Spector]

I am amazed that the work was done without authorization. In my state I believe that violates a law?

 

[Aspen7]

TaterandNoodles, you always have such good advise, you're the person who should be enjoying homemade pies My daughters have both been talking about taking the automotive courses at the votech in Delta CO.

 

[Aspen7]

 Originally Posted By: Spector

I am amazed that the work was done without authorization. In my state I believe that violates a law?

It hadn't occurred to me that this may be a violation. Judging from the unauthorized repair stories I've been hearing in the past couple days from other locals (about various garages here in town), it must not be "wrong" to do that to customers here.

 

[rshunter]

 Originally Posted By: TaterandNoodles

 Originally Posted By: rshunter

 Originally Posted By: Aspen7

I admit to total ignorance of garage billing discrepancies even if they're right in plain view. What am I missing?

He's breaking out the materials charges from the service charges. Even though his service charges should cover much of the materials, considering the price. It's a nice way to charge inflated prices for a given job while trying to make it look like a deal. For instance, he turned the $19.95 oil change into a $39.95 oil change after billing you another $20 for the oil. Nice guy...

I will kindly disagree. Its an itemized bill and a $39 oil change is not out of line. A oil change at the Havoline express lube 4 years ago was $35 plus tax. I can justify every charge on the bill. We also don't know if he has posted prices in his customer service area. It may list the oil change as a flat $39.95 but on the bill it is broken down materials and labor.

I guess it's a matter of location. Around here, a lot of places will do a standard oil change for far less than $39.95. Of course there are plenty of fancy oil change specialists that'll charge that, or even more. You're right, if he's offering a $39.95 oil change then he's done nothing wrong. Considering his shady way of doing business, we can't say one way or another. But I certainly have my doubts...

 

[rshunter]

 Originally Posted By: Spector

I am amazed that the work was done without authorization. In my state I believe that violates a law?

There would typically be something about work authorization in the small print on the invoice, if there is such a law. Is there anything that refers to such on your invoice Aspen7? It would probably be in the area where you signed the paperwork. There may also be some check-boxes or areas for your initials, to indicate your preference.