Transmission Failure After Valvoline MaxLife

[RF Overlord]

Originally Posted By: satinsilver
A simple mechanical object? Far from it. I'd say they are rather complex.
I should have said that compared to a living organism, an automatic transmission is simple. I also meant that living cells can adapt, but a mechanical device cannot.

Yes, I'm aware of adaptive programming, but that's an artificial construct that really only goes by a set of pre-programmed instructions stored in a lookup table.

 

[zrxkawboy]

Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Reasonably good? You could see through it on the dipstick. Perfect pink with that wonderful smell. No transmission problems at all. Complete a switch to MaxLife and off to the junk pile.


Let me tell you about our '05 T&C. We bought it with 75k miles. The ATF had never been changed. It shifted fine, but I wanted to change the ATF and filter, so I did a pan drop. Also note, the fluid looked and smelled just fine on the dipstick, just like yours. Good color, no burned smell at all. After the pan drop, which I think got about 5 qts out, the difference in shift feel was dramatic. The shifts were beyond firm, but not quite harsh. Extra firm might be an appropriate description. Sorta like putting a street/strip shift kit in an older trans. Of course, the shifts normalized over time. I changed it out a couple more times, with less dramatic results each time.

My point? Even though the original ATF appeared fine, it was obviously shot, and this was with only replacing around 5 qts. Also, ATF+4 is a grp III fluid, and it still was well worn in that amount of miles, so I imagine it's likely your factory fill of Dex III was beyond it's useful life.

Do I think worn ATF caused your failure? Nope. More likely a hardware failure that would have happened anyway. But, I don't think it's fair to blame the new ATF, and I don't think it's accurate to say that the original ATF was in good condition.

 

[GearheadTool]

Originally Posted By: zrxkawboy
Originally Posted By: satinsilver
since the atf is loaded with detergents.



Myth. Typical ATF has dispersants, but little or no detergents.


Is it a myth that ATF is a "cleaner?" Just wondering. (This thread is confirming things I already knew, such as gradual drain/fill on older trans.. set the number at 500, I thought it would be about 1000 or so so I will average mine out to that since I went intense on it at first, and also teaching me new things.

I also agree with the goldfish anaolgy, since ATF is like water for a trans...

Oh... and we almost forgot:

 

[cjcride]

Satinsilver. The fish tank will load up with agae if it is near a sunny window. You could probably back off the water changes by a couple weeks. Yet it seems like they are in good hands at 4 years.


re ATF, leave it in for 500 miles sounds bang on. Let it do it's gradual cleaning.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: Falken
I guess this story just adds one to the camp of logic to not do a complete fluid exchange on an older tranny


I sort`ve believe this as well. Back when I had my Olds Trofeo,I changed the ATF. About a week later,the tranny went out.

OP,it wasn`t Valvoline`s fault.

 

[Oil Changer]

You do not know that. You can say, "There is a very good chance it wasn't Valavolin's fault", but you can not prove otherwise.

I want to blame Valvoline. I don't care who believes it or not. I will never buy or recommend Asland garbage for the rest of my life.

If you like their swill and have had good luck with it, motor on, brother! Not me.

And to repeat: It is/was not the fluid that caused my reaction. It was how coldly I was treated after the fact. Their warranty and claims are not worth the time it took to write them.

"Meets and/or exceeds" my [censored]! I'll stick with certified products that I have always had good luck with using.

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: Falken
I guess this story just adds one to the camp of logic to not do a complete fluid exchange on an older tranny

I sort`ve believe this as well. Back when I had my Olds Trofeo,I changed the ATF. About a week later,the tranny went out.

OP,it wasn`t Valvoline`s fault.

 

[GearheadTool]

Just so we can see, this is what it looks like with ~50% MAXLIFE, doing gradual cleaning on a drain/fill (three or so in the first 1000 miles) and the rest of original fluid. (Gradual drain/fill on older trans = best to keep it alive, and improve shifts.)



What I am getting out of this is that, with 3, 4, and soon to be 5 one gallon drain and fills, even if it is Maxlife, my transmission will last a long time.

I will have to post upa video of the drain/fill next. Thawill happen before the end of the month, maybe a litle bit after a week.

And OP, if you are so inclined to answer (you don't have to..) What did Valvoline want for that warranty claim?

 

[KD0AXS]

Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
You do not know that. You can say, "There is a very good chance it wasn't Valavolin's fault", but you can not prove otherwise.

I want to blame Valvoline. I don't care who believes it or not. I will never buy or recommend Asland garbage for the rest of my life.

If you like their swill and have had good luck with it, motor on, brother! Not me.

And to repeat: It is/was not the fluid that caused my reaction. It was how coldly I was treated after the fact. Their warranty and claims are not worth the time it took to write them.

"Meets and/or exceeds" my [censored]! I'll stick with certified products that I have always had good luck with using.

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: Falken
I guess this story just adds one to the camp of logic to not do a complete fluid exchange on an older tranny


I sort`ve believe this as well. Back when I had my Olds Trofeo,I changed the ATF. About a week later,the tranny went out.

OP,it wasn`t Valvoline`s fault.

So what exactly did you expect them to do? Buy you a new transmission? I don't think so. You sent them a sample and they found no evidence that the fluid had failed. This was a failure of a known weak transmission that would have happened no matter what brand fluid you used, but since you used Valvoline you blame them? If you you had used a different brand fluid, you would be blaming them too.

Perhaps you should be complaining to GM for building a junk transmission.

 

[Kestas]

The closest I could find to a warranty for Valvoline MaxLife ATF is the following statement:

"In the unlikely event that you or your customer experiences any transmission damage while using MaxLife ATF, please contact Valvoline at 1-800-Team-VAL for assistance."

I wouldn't really call it a warranty. It's just an invitiation to listen to your problem.

 

[GC4lunch]

Originally Posted By: Kestas
The closest I could find to a warranty for Valvoline MaxLife ATF is the following statement:

"In the unlikely event that you or your customer experiences any transmission damage while using MaxLife ATF, please contact Valvoline at 1-800-Team-VAL for assistance."

I wouldn't really call it a warranty. It's just an invitiation to listen to your problem.


Originally Posted By: Title 15, United States Code
(6) The term “written warranty” means—
(A) any written affirmation of fact or written promise made in connection with the sale of a consumer product by a supplier to a buyer which relates to the nature of the material or workmanship and affirms or promises that such material or workmanship is defect free or will meet a specified level of performance over a specified period of time, or
(B) any undertaking in writing in connection with the sale by a supplier of a consumer product to refund, repair, replace, or take other remedial action with respect to such product in the event that such product fails to meet the specifications set forth in the undertaking . . .

15 USC section 2301(6)

 

[Oil Changer]

You are 100% correct. That's all they will do, and not very good at that either.

Originally Posted By: Kestas
The closest I could find to a warranty for Valvoline MaxLife ATF is the following statement:

"In the unlikely event that you or your customer experiences any transmission damage while using MaxLife ATF, please contact Valvoline at 1-800-Team-VAL for assistance."

I wouldn't really call it a warranty. It's just an invitiation to listen to your problem.

 

[Oil Changer]

Originally Posted By: KD0AXS
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
You do not know that. You can say, "There is a very good chance it wasn't Valavolin's fault", but you can not prove otherwise.

I want to blame Valvoline. I don't care who believes it or not. I will never buy or recommend Asland garbage for the rest of my life.

If you like their swill and have had good luck with it, motor on, brother! Not me.

And to repeat: It is/was not the fluid that caused my reaction. It was how coldly I was treated after the fact. Their warranty and claims are not worth the time it took to write them.

"Meets and/or exceeds" my [censored]! I'll stick with certified products that I have always had good luck with using.

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: Falken
I guess this story just adds one to the camp of logic to not do a complete fluid exchange on an older tranny


I sort`ve believe this as well. Back when I had my Olds Trofeo,I changed the ATF. About a week later,the tranny went out.

OP,it wasn`t Valvoline`s fault.

So what exactly did you expect them to do? Buy you a new transmission?YES. I don't think so. You sent them a sample and they found no evidence that the fluid had failed.TELL ME HOW THE FLUID WOULD HAVE FAILED. This was a failure of a known weak transmission that would have happened no matter what brand fluid you used, but since you used Valvoline you blame them?IT IS NOT A WEAK TRANSMISSION. YES, I BLAME VALVOLINE. If you you had used a different brand fluid, you would be blaming them too.YES

Perhaps you should be complaining to GM for building a junk transmission.THEY ARE NOT JUNK TRANSMISSIONS AND WAS WORKING LIKE NEW BEFORE THE FLUSH WITH THAT TOILET WATER CALLED MAX LIFE.

 

[Oil Changer]

I don't understand your question. The transmission failed. I called the number. They sent a sample kit. I sent it back. They said too bad.

Originally Posted By: GearheadTool
Just so we can see, this is what it looks like with ~50% MAXLIFE, doing gradual cleaning on a drain/fill (three or so in the first 1000 miles) and the rest of original fluid. (Gradual drain/fill on older trans = best to keep it alive, and improve shifts.)



What I am getting out of this is that, with 3, 4, and soon to be 5 one gallon drain and fills, even if it is Maxlife, my transmission will last a long time.

I will have to post upa video of the drain/fill next. Thawill happen before the end of the month, maybe a litle bit after a week.

And OP, if you are so inclined to answer (you don't have to..) What did Valvoline want for that warranty claim?

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
I don't understand your question. The transmission failed. I called the number. They sent a sample kit. I sent it back. They said too bad.


The LEAST they should have done is sent you a check for the amount of sending a sample of your own to an independent lab of your choice. Which they should, in my view, have instructed you to do.

It is true that if the customer is willing to buy a alternative fluid instead of the fluid from the OEM there should be some consolation depending on the circumstance if there is ANY question about the product having anything to do with a failure.

Yeah, and I noticed too how the fan boys here are trying to shift the focus away from what really got under Oil Changer's skin....
poor customer service etiquette.

 

[GearheadTool]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
I don't understand your question. The transmission failed. I called the number. They sent a sample kit. I sent it back. They said too bad.


The LEAST they should have done is sent you a check for the amount of sending a sample of your own to an independent lab of your choice. Which they should, in my view, have instructed you to do.

It is true that if the customer is willing to buy a alternative fluid instead of the fluid from the OEM there should be some consolation depending on the circumstance if there is ANY question about the product having anything to do with a failure.

Yeah, and I noticed too how the fan boys here are trying to shift the focus away from what really got under Oil Changer's skin....
poor customer service etiquette.


But what does it mean if a company makes a really good product, and simply has really bad customer service, that 99% of said company's customers will never get to experience?

I know that if a restaurant gives you really bad service that you never go back in and that customer is lost, and it probably won't even get to the stage of being offered a free meal for continued patronage. This seems different, so I would like to introduce that variable.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Kestas
I wouldn't really call it a warranty. It's just an invitiation to listen to your problem.


And if it tests as "normal" as it did in this case, they're not going to do much, unfortunately. If testing did show a fluid failure, he'd certainly have a legal argument for compensation.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Kestas
I wouldn't really call it a warranty. It's just an invitiation to listen to your problem.


And if it tests as "normal" as it did in this case, they're not going to do much, unfortunately. If testing did show a fluid failure, he'd certainly have a legal argument for compensation.


No thats just too logical Garak stop making sense you make us all look bad.

I still don't get this 100%
He changes the oil and filter with a pan drop. Its working fine.
Does a second pan drop and does not change the filter. again its working fine.
Does a third round of what he did the second time. still fine.

He is where i get lost.
Does this a forth time and changes the filter again. Thing goes boom.
It seems logical that something went afoul on this forth drop and filter change.
If i was him i would be looking at the filter manufacturer to inspect the last filter not Ashland for an oil failure.
I would also inspect the filter seal very closely, not matter how good you think your work is any small bur can damage a seal and go undetected.
He may have some recourse if in fact the filter or the seal was a defect.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Trav
He may have some recourse if in fact the filter or the seal was a defect.


It's unfortunate what happened in this case. But you're quite right. If my Wix fails in my G, I doubt that SOPUS is going to fix my engine under the Pennzoil warranty, no matter how good or bad that warranty is, particularly if the oil showed within specifications. If the filter caused or contributed to the transmission problem, Ashland won't fix it. If the transmission had some underlying but undetected issues, again, Ashland won't fix it.

Realistically, companies have all kinds of ways of limiting warranty coverage. Non-speced lubes or filters are one way. I use an oversize Wix and M1 0w-40 in my G, I had better not expect much out of Wix or XOM if something goes wrong. If MaxLife wasn't the appropriate lube in this case, at least they got an analysis done to show that the fluid did not fail.

They could have used the classic Linux community response - RTFM.

 

[FoxS]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell

Yeah, and I noticed too how the fan boys here are trying to shift the focus away from what really got under Oil Changer's skin....
poor customer service etiquette.


Oil Changer has titled the thread "Transmission Failure After Valvoline MaxLife" not

"Poor Customer Service Etiquette by Valvoline after I changed my ATF 23k late on a Transmission known for its weakness in a vehicle made by Chevy, a company known for their quality automobiles"

 

[Oil Changer]

The title is correct; that is EXACTLY what happened.

These are not weak transmissions. You are just being a parrot.

Yes, Ashland's customer service is as bad as the garbage oils they produce.

Originally Posted By: FoxS
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell

Yeah, and I noticed too how the fan boys here are trying to shift the focus away from what really got under Oil Changer's skin....
poor customer service etiquette.


Oil Changer has titled the thread "Transmission Failure After Valvoline MaxLife" not

"Poor Customer Service Etiquette by Valvoline after I changed my ATF 23k late on a Transmission known for its weakness in a vehicle made by Chevy, a company known for their quality automobiles"