Transmission Failure After Valvoline MaxLife

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Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
The sample I sent to Valvoline was poured directly from the pan to the bottles then sealed as I watched.

I can not explain the zinc.

You watched? You mean someone else did the work or some of the fills?
How did the zinc get in there?


My question...was fluid defective from the manufacturer, it COULD happen. I'm sure other Valvoline products DO contain zinc, so it isn't impossible that the wrong add was put into the fluid.

I would hope that Ashland would not LIE about the sample test they did. Hard to believe they would take that chance. BUT....
 
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Sorry to hear about the whole situation. I've never cared for anything Valvoline due to some experiences with it in the 90's. I don't touch any Valvoline fluids.

On another note, I have had very good results using Chevron Merc/DexIII.
 
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell


My question...was fluid defective from the manufacturer, it COULD happen. I'm sure other Valvoline products DO contain zinc, so it isn't impossible that the wrong add was put into the fluid.

I would hope that Ashland would not LIE about the sample test they did. Hard to believe they would take that chance. BUT....



Ok so if there WAS some mistake with the formulation blending back at the factory, it would have affected ALOT more people, since oil is produced in huge batches. Here, the first three drain and fills with just fine. Like someone mentioned, 3 main parts to the equation during the 4th pan drop. Human error ( I only mentioned because we all arent flawless ), Transmission Filter and ATF.

The same ATF was used the first 3 times where I assume the vehicle drove fine after each pan drop. The same filter was in service at the same time as well. All is good.

Now the 4th pan drop happens. We can take human error to the lowest possible cause since he has already done this a few times by now. The fluid is also the same fluid. The 3 important item is the variable between the first 3 occurances and the 4th.

Still, like someone mentioned, in the end OP had to eat $2700 in repairs so he has a right to vent a bit lol.
 
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Originally Posted By: bourne


Ok so if there WAS some mistake with the formulation blending back at the factory, it would have affected ALOT more people, since oil is produced in huge batches.


Perhaps as the full effect of the defective fluid came into effect that was the last straw and caused the unit to give out.

As for other people being affected...well how do we know? Only a few diehard grease monkey types like us actually take the time to post on forums like this.
Quote:

The same ATF was used the first 3 times where I assume the vehicle drove fine after each pan drop. The same filter was in service at the same time as well. All is good.


Again could have been a small batch of defective fluid, or perhaps when the 100% concentration of ML was in the unit it was enough to finally destroy it.

Also if Oil Changer is being honest the way that Ashland handled his case seemed to be poor.

That being said if it were me I would have gotten a sample of that fluid and sent it to TWO independent labs for analysis.

Also IF a shop did some of the work I would be looking into what they did as well. Did they accidentally put in some other fluid, or do other physical damage to the unit?

I hope Oil Changer gets back to us and informs us as to whether or not he or a shop did some of the trans fluid work.
 
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Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
The sample I sent to Valvoline was poured directly from the pan to the bottles then sealed as I watched.

I can not explain the zinc.

You watched? You mean someone else did the work or some of the fills?
How did the zinc get in there?


After 4 drain and fills of 1 gallon each, there's still > 30% of the old fluid left in the transmission, so the most likely cause is that it was in the factory fill.

This should also put the rest the idea that this was such a "sudden shock" to the transmission, and that's to blame. Replacing less than 70% of the fluid over 4 weeks seems pretty gradual to me. So, for those looking to use this as an example that new fluid causes transmissions to explode, I'm just not seeing it.

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell


Again could have been a small batch of defective fluid, or perhaps when the 100% concentration of ML was in the unit it was enough to finally destroy it.



There was never a 100% concentration of ML in this transmission.
 
Purchased by the gallon ( with a couple of quarts thrown in) from AAP.

Originally Posted By: 1kickbuttranger
Was the fluid purchased as a case? Purchased indiviudal quarts for each service? Where was it purchased at?
 
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
OilChanger,

How do you think Valvolene should have handled this incident?
HONOR THEIR WARRANTY AND PAY THE $2700.

Why did you not send a sample to an independent lab for verification ($25)?
BECAUSE VALVOLINE SAID THE RESULTS WOULD CHANGE NOTHING.

Why did you not pay to have the old transmission taken apart(Maybe 1-2 hours labor)?
$2700 WAS ENOUGH.


On a different note, why didn't they rebuild this transmission?
IT WAS CHEAPER AND FASTER TO INSTALL A REMAN TRANSMISSION. 3 YEAR/100K PARTS/LABOR WARRANTY.


The only evidence presented is Valvolene's lab results that claim the fluid was not defective. If you are correct, you could have saved $2,700, plus, I assume, your costs to prove your stance. I'm not trying to rub salt on the wounds....just trying to make this a learning experience that might help others faced with this type of problem in the future.
 
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: bourne


Ok so if there WAS some mistake with the formulation blending back at the factory, it would have affected ALOT more people, since oil is produced in huge batches.


Perhaps as the full effect of the defective fluid came into effect that was the last straw and caused the unit to give out.

As for other people being affected...well how do we know? Only a few diehard grease monkey types like us actually take the time to post on forums like this.
Quote:

The same ATF was used the first 3 times where I assume the vehicle drove fine after each pan drop. The same filter was in service at the same time as well. All is good.


Again could have been a small batch of defective fluid, or perhaps when the 100% concentration of ML was in the unit it was enough to finally destroy it.
SEALED GALLON BOTTLES FROM AAP.

Also if Oil Changer is being honest the way that Ashland handled his case seemed to be poor.
TWO COLD-HEARTED PHONE CALLS, BOTH OF WHICH WERE INITIATED BY ME. I HAD TO ASK TO HAVE THE UOA E-MAILED TO ME.

That being said if it were me I would have gotten a sample of that fluid and sent it to TWO independent labs for analysis.

Also IF a shop did some of the work I would be looking into what they did as well. Did they accidentally put in some other fluid, or do other physical damage to the unit?

I hope Oil Changer gets back to us and informs us as to whether or not he or a shop did some of the trans fluid work.
THE ONLY WORK ON THIS VAN WAS AT BELLE TIRE TO INSTALL WINTER TIRES. NO ONE BUT MYSELF HAS EVER PERFORMED ANY MAINTAINENCE ON THIS VAN. LET THERE BE NO DOUBT, THE TRANSMISSION FLUID WAS THE FF.
 
I did all the work. The dealership mechanic poured the fluid in the bottles from the pan as I watched; I was standing right there. The service write-up area is IN the service bay. The van was already in the shop. I used my Blackstone bottles because I was not going to let the van sit while waiting for Valvoline's kit to come in the mail.

I have no explaination as to why there is zinc other than it had to be present in the FF or MaxLife.


Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
The sample I sent to Valvoline was poured directly from the pan to the bottles then sealed as I watched.

I can not explain the zinc.

You watched? You mean someone else did the work or some of the fills?
How did the zinc get in there?
 
Originally Posted By: JOD

After 4 drain and fills of 1 gallon each, there's still > 30% of the old fluid left in the transmission, so the most likely cause is that it was in the factory fill.

This should also put the rest the idea that this was such a "sudden shock" to the transmission, and that's to blame. Replacing less than 70% of the fluid over 4 weeks seems pretty gradual to me. So, for those looking to use this as an example that new fluid causes transmissions to explode, I'm just not seeing it.

There was never a 100% concentration of ML in this transmission.


To be precise, the capacity of his transmission is 11.2 quarts. If he changed a gallon 4 times, that works out to 17.1% factory fluid still in there.
 
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
OilChanger,

How do you think Valvolene should have handled this incident?

HONOR THEIR WARRANTY AND PAY THE $2700.

But isn't it a simple defense that you didn't use the product according to the instructions?

Maxlife is for transmissions over 75k. You were below that.
 
I gotta ask/observe...

Maxlife is thinner than Dex/Merc.

Does that mean anything.. a la the discussions we have about HTHS in oil?

Is that better? Worse? irrelevant? ?

And, thank you again for watching my drain/fill. It is something I will do again soon.. debating about using Maxlife again, or going to Redline stuff...
 
Originally Posted By: FoxS
Originally Posted By: JOD

After 4 drain and fills of 1 gallon each, there's still > 30% of the old fluid left in the transmission, so the most likely cause is that it was in the factory fill.

This should also put the rest the idea that this was such a "sudden shock" to the transmission, and that's to blame. Replacing less than 70% of the fluid over 4 weeks seems pretty gradual to me. So, for those looking to use this as an example that new fluid causes transmissions to explode, I'm just not seeing it.

There was never a 100% concentration of ML in this transmission.


To be precise, the capacity of his transmission is 11.2 quarts. If he changed a gallon 4 times, that works out to 17.1% factory fluid still in there.



Absolutely nothing "precise" about a drain and refill. So to really be accurate, the percentage is likely to be varied!

And I get 4L80-E's redone for FAR less (like a thousand or so!) than 2700 bucks with a lifetime warranty! My goodness, that's a real poke in the eye price!
 
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Originally Posted By: GearheadTool
I gotta ask/observe...

Maxlife is thinner than Dex/Merc.

Does that mean anything.. a la the discussions we have about HTHS in oil?


It shouldn't mean anything. GM specifies Dexron VI in all transmissions using either Dex VI (obviously) or Dex III. So this Astro would have/could have had Dex VI poured in. MaxLife's viscosity is close to that of Dex VI, and Valvoline recommends that it be used in transmissions calling for Dex VI (and Dex II, Dex III, etc).

People have submitted three variables: workmanship, fluid, and filter. But there's clearly a fourth: the transmission itself. Failures as the OP suffered are apparently not all that uncommon with these transmissions...some as early as 25,000 miles as reported in this thread. Without a forensic analysis of the transmission, one can never know what happened.

Blaming the lubricant for any failure of any part (an engine, a transmission, an axle, etc) is frankly the easy way out. If a forensic analysis was performed on the transmission which was inconclusive...didn't find a smoking gun...then blaming the lubricant makes more sense. But geez...there could be a lunched sun gear inside the transmission just waiting to be discovered...and we'll never know.

Doesn't matter anyway: the lubricant was at fault.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: FoxS
But isn't it a simple defense that you didn't use the product according to the instructions?

Maxlife is for transmissions over 75k. You were below that.

This, by far, has to be the dumbest comment ever written in the English language.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
People have submitted three variables: workmanship, fluid, and filter. But there's clearly a fourth: the transmission itself. Failures as the OP suffered are apparently not all that uncommon with these transmissions...some as early as 25,000 miles as reported in this thread. Without a forensic analysis of the transmission, one can never know what happened.

Blaming the lubricant for any failure of any part (an engine, a transmission, an axle, etc) is frankly the easy way out. If a forensic analysis was performed on the transmission which was inconclusive...didn't find a smoking gun...then blaming the lubricant makes more sense. But geez...there could be a lunched sun gear inside the transmission just waiting to be discovered...and we'll never know.

Doesn't matter anyway: the lubricant was at fault.
wink.gif



Precisely.
Would people blame motor oil if an engine seized right after, or shortly after an oil change?
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Precisely.
Would people blame motor oil if an engine seized right after, or shortly after an oil change?

Actually they would probably blame the quick lube place where they got the $15 special oil change and were told they had gasket/pan leaks lol.
 
Originally Posted By: bourne
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Precisely.
Would people blame motor oil if an engine seized right after, or shortly after an oil change?

Actually they would probably blame the quick lube place where they got the $15 special oil change and were told they had gasket/pan leaks lol.

Well if a quick lube place did the job they'd get the blame, if the owner did the job, the oil or filter would get the blame. Unfortunately these things can and do happen, w/o a tear down no one will ever know the reason for the failure.
 
-To be precise, the capacity of his transmission is 11.2 quarts. If he changed a gallon 4 times, that works out to 17.1% factory fluid still in there.-

How are you calculating this ?

After 4 drain and fills I calculated --73.9%-- new fluid in the trans case. Please remember each subsequent drain/fill is diluted as well.
26.1% old fluid still resides inside the unit.
 
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