Toyota's 745-mile Battery

JavierH19 said:
I'm a Toyota guy and I don't hate EVs but I'm still going to say let's wait and see. Now if it does get around 650 miles real world then that would be great.
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If the legitimate advertised range could be advertised at anywhere near 745 miles, 650 could be a realistic use number. Now that would cover all my usage 99% of the time to not publicly charge. I'd definitely be interested in the right vehicle.
 
I'm sold, but with tech like this it needs a few years, and a few folks in the line of fire to take the beta test bugs out, and infrastructure so I can hike wherever I feel like it.
 
We've heard it from Toyota before. They promised this years ago, time to put up or shut up.

Quoting a range for a battery is stupid and only a Japanese PR firm would let anyone do it.

745 miles and charge in 10 min thats going to be awesome in a Tundra or Landcruiser for 85K

Oh wait - they don't say what vehicle it will be in, or what it will cost, or where it will charged since nothing on the table could likely push that today, but we dont know what that is because they dont say how many KWH, or what the C rate is.. or or or or or or or.........................
 
Please keep in mind that X miles of range equall maybe 1/2 X miles while doing 70 MPH on the interstate. At least that's what I hear from people with Nissan Leafs. Not sure what the ratio is for a Tesla. Nevertheless, I hope that Toyota is successful.
 
Shel_B said:
SUMMARY
Toyota has been secretly developing a solid-state battery for EVs with a range of 745 miles and a charge time of 10 minutes, which could revolutionize the industry.

The battery will provide EVs with the same driving range as traditional vehicles, eliminating the need for frequent charging stops during long trips.

https://www.topspeed.com/toyota-745-mile-solid-state-battery/
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Is this the battery they have "secretly" been hinting at every year since 2017 as being "ready for production *insert following year*"?

Toyota is a joke. Sure, in the 90's and 2000's they had excellent quality, etc. but now? Low quality, lots of false claims, drummed up interest over nothingburgers, they're just a joke.

Toyota has done very little with EV's aside from a joint venture with Subaru to make quite possibly the worst EV of 2022-2023 in its price bracket and then issuing a stop sale because the wheels could literally fall off.

If you want something stoopid reliable, an old ICE engine Toyota/Lexus is the way to go (something pre-2010 or so). For an EV? HAH!

https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/25/t...e-battery-could-make-its-way-to-cars-by-2020/
https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/M...g-solid-state-battery-en-route-for-2021-debut
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a33435923/toyota-solid-state-battery-2025/
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/toyota-says-its-new-battery-will-double-the-range-of-current-evs/

Bunch of clowns.
 
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Ws6 said:
Is this the battery they have "secretly" been hinting at every year since 2017 as being "ready for production *insert following year*"?


Bunch of clowns.
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Pretty much, I actually forgot how far back this goes it's been so long.

I'd call them Masters of Ice, and Novices at EV's.
 
demarpaint said:
I wouldn't count Toyota out.
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Me neither. I own a few myself. And might buy another one today.
But their EV products are an absolute failure. Their hybrids are the best.

They were smart to kick ex-CEO Toyoda upstairs; his decisions proved to work out poorly.
CEO Koji Sato has his work cut out but he is more forward thinking. I wish him well.
 
CKN said:
I'm not jumping on the EV band wagon until I can get a 1,000 miles of range. (more than the vast majority of what bladders will do on here before a bathroom stop is needed).
You know...that goal post keeps moving when the objections are solved.....
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Despite everyone's criticisms, we'll get there one day. A 1000 mile battery with 10 minute charge that comes with little to no battery degradation. I think we are at least 5 years away with 10 being a reasonable timeline.
 
JeffKeryk said:
Me neither. I own a few myself. And might buy another one today.
But their EV products are an absolute failure. Their hybrids are the best.

They were smart to kick ex-CEO Toyoda upstairs; his decisions proved to work out poorly.
CEO Koji Sato has his work cut out but he is more forward thinking. I wish him well.
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I'm sure they'll get the EV dialed in, give them time. Too bad the push is for all electric, or they'd spend more on hybrids. Hopefully that mindset changes and they can continue to pursue what they do best.
 
Owen Lucas said:
Despite everyone's criticisms, we'll get there one day. A 1000 mile battery with 10 minute charge that comes with little to no battery degradation. I think we are at least 5 years away with 10 being a reasonable timeline.
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Okay...so...how exactly will you cram 2-300kwh of energy into a battery in 10 minutes? Presuming the battery can handle it without issue? Which charging station functions at this rate? My car is 77kw, and can handle 230kw briefly before a taper to 120ish, and takes 18 minutes to charge 10-80%(50kwh more or less), so we are talking 400% that amount in almost half the time. This is on the order of a 2000kw charger or more, although I havent done all the maths.
 
A lithium battery with a solid electrolyte is still a lithium battery.

A true solid state battery will use a silicon anode (and most likely a solid electrolyte). The benefit being silicon will hold 10X the charge of the current graphite of the same size, and cost less, and take a charge essentially like a capacitor - all at once.

My guess is it won't be a car company that figures this out. The ramifications are way beyond vehicles. Imagine enough grid storage that you could run completely on green or renewable energy, a cell phone or laptop that legitimately would run a week without charging, etc.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/silicon-anode-battery
 
Ws6 said:
Okay...so...how exactly will you cram 2-300kwh of energy into a battery in 10 minutes? Presuming the battery can handle it without issue? Which charging station functions at this rate? My car is 77kw, and can handle 230kw briefly before a taper to 120ish, and takes 18 minutes to charge 10-80%(50kwh more or less), so we are talking 400% that amount in almost half the time. This is on the order of a 2000kw charger or more, although I havent done all the maths.
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Magical future technology?

Good points though, looks like the grid has to catch up around the same time batteries do. In this case, I think batteries will actually achieve their goal before the grid.
 
SC Maintenance said:
A lithium battery with a solid electrolyte is still a lithium battery.

A true solid state battery will use a silicon anode (and most likely a solid electrolyte). The benefit being silicon will hold 10X the charge of the current graphite of the same size, and cost less, and take a charge essentially like a capacitor - all at once.

My guess is it won't be a car company that figures this out. The ramifications are way beyond vehicles. Imagine enough grid storage that you could run completely on green or renewable energy, a cell phone or laptop that legitimately would run a week without charging, etc.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/silicon-anode-battery
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Eh, I know the article says this:
Silicon has long held out promise as a medium for anodes, because it can hold 10 times as many lithium ions by weight as graphite.
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but when you read down further:
In March, Amprius reported a silicon anode battery with a record-high certified energy density of 500 watt-hours per kilogram, about twice that of today’s EV batteries. Airbus and BAE Systems already use the company’s batteries in aircraft.
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Pluvinage says OneD is instead focused on getting affordable EVs on the market by 2026. OneD also uses silicon nanowires, but the company infuses the nanowires into the internal pores and surfaces of graphite particles. The addition of silicon processing costs less than $2 per kilowatt-hour, and produces batteries with energy densities of 350 watt-hours per kilogram and 80 percent charging in under 10 minutes. “While silicon has been seen as a highly engineered and expensive material, OneD has found the solution for breaking this cost barrier and effectively adding just the right amount of silicon into EV batteries,” Pluvinage says.
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Sila’s silicon powder consists of micrometer-size particles of nanostructured silicon and other materials surrounded by a porous scaffold made of another material. The material enables batteries with 20 percent higher energy density (which translates to about 160 kilometers more range for an EV) than those with graphite anodes. The company says it plans to double that in the future.
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Meanwhile, NanoGraf has chosen another way to increase the amount of silicon in graphite anodes. The Chicago startup makes a silicon oxide material that it preswells to make it more stable. Its anodes boost the energy density of batteries by 10 percent
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So, anywhere from 10% to 200%, all of which are a far cry from the 1,000% that one might infer from the "10 times as many lithium ions by weight" statement.
 
OVERKILL said:
Eh, I know the article says this:


but when you read down further:





So, anywhere from 10% to 200%, all of which are a far cry from the 1,000% that one might infer from the "10 times as many lithium ions by weight" statement.
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Everything is theoretical at this point. In 1969 when we sent men to the moon the computing power of NASA was significantly less than my current iphone.

Current battery tech goes back 200 years. Even Lithium Ion batteries are simply a improvement in materials and date back almost 50 years now. A true solid state battery should be theoretically possible - with a silicon anode holding 10X the electrons, a solid electrolyte allowing much faster electron transfer, and who knows what material or composite for a cathode.

We didn't go from punch-cards to mesh computing in one step either. The journey is all the fun.
 
SC Maintenance said:
A lithium battery with a solid electrolyte is still a lithium battery.

A true solid state battery will use a silicon anode (and most likely a solid electrolyte). The benefit being silicon will hold 10X the charge of the current graphite of the same size, and cost less, and take a charge essentially like a capacitor - all at once.

My guess is it won't be a car company that figures this out. The ramifications are way beyond vehicles. Imagine enough grid storage that you could run completely on green or renewable energy, a cell phone or laptop that legitimately would run a week without charging, etc.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/silicon-anode-battery
Click to expand...
A car is not valuable enough to jump start this kind of R&D. If anything it is always the military who would spend the money for this R&D (submarine?), then MAYBE some sort of medical device that you can reduce recharge by induction (hearing aid or some sort of cardiac stuff), then maybe if we are lucky, watch, and phones, then in the very end maybe cars if we get lucky and cheap.
 
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