Has anyone dyno'd the new Toyota V6 yet? I'm guesstimating that it won't generate the same HP/TQ numbers as the Nissan engine does.
Wishful thinking.quote:
Originally posted by Winston:
They are both Japanese engines. They are both probably misstating the HP equally.
code:
Engine HP Curb wt. Drag Coef. CityMPG HwyMPG Height Width
Toyota Avalon 3.5L 280 3560 0.29 22 31 58.5 72.8
Infinity G35 3.5L 280 3468 0.27 18 25 57.7 69
Nissan Maxima 3.5L 265 3473 0.30 20 28 58.3 71.7
The BMW is a much smaller car than than the G35 or the Avalon.quote:
RWD probably contributes to a little more loss, but probably not most of the difference. A 255hp RWD 330i gets 20/30mpg, and it runs 2230rpm at 60mph. [/QB]
Calculate it, it's simple.quote:
Originally posted by Winston:
I wish car companies would publish BMEP for their engines. ... dreamland ....
Nope; 3460lb, 55.9" high, 71.5" wide. Smaller engine though.quote:
Originally posted by jtantare:
The BMW is a much smaller car than than the G35 or the Avalon.
Maybe the Toyota's tranny gets into higher gears faster or at lower speeds? Maybe it is a more efficient engine?quote:
Originally posted by jtantare:
Nobody thinks the Toyota is a more efficient engine? What about the city mpg. The engine rpm at cruise would not have much effect on the city mpg.
A Lexus GS300 gets 22/30 mpg. About the same size as the G35.
So, the Toyota is heavier, fatter, taller with a higher Cd. Yet it gets better mpg?!?!? How can this be? I think that both engines have VVT. I would not think the torque curves are that different. Yet clearly this shows that the Toyota engine is much more efficient. What do you think?code:
Engine HP Curb wt. Drag Coef. CityMPG HwyMPG Height Width
Toyota Avalon 3.5L 280 3560 0.29 22 31 58.5 72.8
Infinity G35 3.5L 280 3468 0.27 18 25 57.7 69
The Toyota 3MZ-FE and Nissan/Infiniti VQ35 are totally different engines, other than displacement and general DOHC configuration. The 1MZ/3MZ family has always been biased toward quiet and smooth, whereas the VQ series is designed more with performance in mind. The VQ also has chain driven camshafts, whereas the xMZs are belt driven, so the Toyotas sound and feel a tad smoother (but don't forget to change the belts...). At least in the G35, the VQ has a smooth but rumbling/growling quality that's totally absent from the velvety MZ engines.quote:
Originally posted by Winston:
Good idea on the Maxima. Here goes. Still quite a difference, and now with less power.
code:
Engine HP Curb wt. Drag Coef. CityMPG HwyMPG Height Width
Toyota Avalon 3.5L 280 3560 0.29 22 31 58.5 72.8
Infinity G35 3.5L 280 3468 0.27 18 25 57.7 69
Nissan Maxima 3.5L 265 3473 0.30 20 28 58.3 71.7
Final drive ratios have little to do with friction. It's about the rpms associated with any given speed. The Avalon cruising beside me on the interstate at the same speed, with its taller gearing is going to be turning a lot fewer rpms than my G35 is, more importantly, he will be running in a more efficient part of his operating "envelope" than I am. Yes, the Avalon has a quieter cabin for several reasons, primarily though, because its engine isn't scremaing along at higher rpm like the G's is. Sure, RWD cars suffer a slight disadvantage in mileage, but that does not account for the 5 mpg defference between these two.quote:
Originally posted by Winston:
I tend to dissagree that it is the final drive ratios that affect the mpg. There will be a little more friction but not much. Lower final drive ratio also contributes to less cabin noise which is a reason for it in the Avalon. Looking at other cars mpg, the correlation seems much more related FWD vs RWD. Note the comment on the mpg for the IS350, it is a small car but it has RWD.
As far as the de-rating of the Toyota, it probably puts out close to 280 with the same premium fuel as recommended for the Nissan.
I am also confused by the quote "designed with performance in mind". Hp and Torque is Hp and Torque. I wonder what the difference in the torque curves is between these two engines.
Oh, and I like timing belts. Quiet and easy on the oil.
I think this is the crux of the issue. RWD/FWD, RPMs, and engine efficiency. I dont think a couple hundred rpms account for much in the way of efficiency. I think they do it mainly for the noise. Look at the Maxima, you only have 100 rpm difference while there is still a 3mpg difference between it and the Avalon. Plus, the Maxima engine is derated in hp(I would assume to increase efficiency). I think that example clearly shows the VQ engine is less efficient.quote:
Sure, RWD cars suffer a slight disadvantage in mileage, but that does not account for the 5 mpg defference between these two.