Toyota sludge warranty--successful claims?

[Lumberg]

My 2000 Camry with a V6 1MZ-FE had a sudden catastrophic oil seal failure in one of the cylinders. I posted about it here .

Under the valve cover, there is some varnish, looks about average to me for a well maintained engine. I've been running GC for the past year or so. So it's surprisingly dirty for the oil, but overall average. I was pretty much assuming the sludge thing wouldn't be an issue since I use GC. However, who knows? I can document my oil changes, and it's still 3 months under the 8 year cutoff for the engine gel/sludge warranty. So I figured I'd take the car to the local dealer.

The catch is, if they determine that the problem is NOT related to the gel/sludging issue, they charge $150 just for looking at it.

So I guess what I am asking is advice on what to do--I am pretty sure it's a broken ring, and I haven't done anything that would precipitate such a failure. I drive about average--I drive for fuel mileage so my driving habits are pretty good for engine durability I think.

Anyone ever get a failure covered under the system? Is it even worth risking the $150?

 

[JHZR2]

you mean, despite being so "smart" according to toyota, no less, for buying one of their cars, they don't trust your decision and concept of what happened?

They must not think their buyers are so smart afterall...

Sounds to me like regardless of what happens, youll need service/repairs made. You can always suck it up, pay it, then complain to toyota for the HORRIBLE customer service on a knowingly poor product that you took extra expense and cost to maintain by using quality oil.

Youll likely want multiple second opinions prior to doing anything else anyway... at least for quotation sake. That doesn't come free.

Good luck, hope it works in your favor.

JMH

 

[Lumberg]

I have a theory.

I discovered today that the PCV valve was clogged. No rattle when shaken. I tapped it against the ground and nothing moved. Inside the valve cover side it seemed like there was black sooty grit inside it. I check it every oil change, and it passed the rattle test 8000 miles ago.

Since this happened shortly after an oil change, I wonder if the new oil had a washoff effect. The first round of GC stopped the accumulation of deposits. Perhaps it loosened the deposits, quickly using up whatever detergent additives were in the oil. Then, this oil change was the straw that broke the camel's back. It finished the job the first batch of GC started, and it washed sludge off as a sand-like slurry.

The air filter has been kept clean, I check it every few thousand miles and the Purolator is in good shape, slightly gray at the ridges but you can see plenty of light through the pleats.

I don't know. I'm dying to pull the drain plug just to see what's on the magnet.

 

[brianl703]

Clogged PCV valve? They're going to say that's lack of maintenance, so sorry, we can't cover it....unless you can prove that it was changed when it was supposed to be.

 

[Black Bart]

With Toyota's past record of being sued before they would honor their warranty I sure would not hold out much hope of them doing anything other than sticking you with a outrageous charge for repair.

 

[badtlc]

Do you have the redemption ticket for the sludge coverage? Toyota mailed out tickets or gift certificate looking things that you must redeem to get the sludge problem covered. I'm not sure they will cover anything w/out that ticket. I'm guessing that is because they will only cover it once for each automobile.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
Do you have the redemption ticket for the sludge coverage? Toyota mailed out tickets or gift certificate looking things that you must redeem to get the sludge problem covered. I'm not sure they will cover anything w/out that ticket. I'm guessing that is because they will only cover it once for each automobile.

I've never heard of that one before.

As for a successful sludge claim, yes take a look at this thread.

Even if the problem wasn't due to sludge, with a good documented maintenance history, I would push for goodwill assistance for the repair. Honda has covered lots of transmissions past 100k (often nearly 100%) for their customers. It usually requires some work on the customer's end to negotiate with Honda corporate.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Do you have the redemption ticket for the sludge coverage? Toyota mailed out tickets or gift certificate looking things that you must redeem to get the sludge problem covered. I'm not sure they will cover anything w/out that ticket. I'm guessing that is because they will only cover it once for each automobile.

I've never heard of that one before.

As for a successful sludge claim, yes take a look at this thread.

Even if the problem wasn't due to sludge, with a good documented maintenance history, I would push for goodwill assistance for the repair. Honda has covered lots of transmissions past 100k (often nearly 100%) for their customers. It usually requires some work on the customer's end to negotiate with Honda corporate.


When we went through it with my wife's 1999 Avalon, we needed the certificate or whatever you wanted to call it. It was pretty good timing because we had just received that from toyota about 2 months before the sludge finally became a problem. It was really easy to get it taken care of. We just handed them the redemption certificate and they fixed everything. Then we sold it.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
Do you have the redemption ticket for the sludge coverage? Toyota mailed out tickets or gift certificate looking things that you must redeem to get the sludge problem covered. I'm not sure they will cover anything w/out that ticket. I'm guessing that is because they will only cover it once for each automobile.


Indeed whip out your ticket. MIL's 2001 Avalon ticket is fairly well worded as to being covered last time I read it.

So, with GC how often were your changing the oil? I've been doing ASL 5W-30 once per year, 6K miles or basically one year OCI's. Tiny PCV is still pristine.

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
Do you have the redemption ticket for the sludge coverage? Toyota mailed out tickets or gift certificate looking things that you must redeem to get the sludge problem covered. I'm not sure they will cover anything w/out that ticket. I'm guessing that is because they will only cover it once for each automobile.


If that's true then Toyota's infotech systems must really stink or more likely that just want to create more hurdles to reduce the number of claims.

It is pretty much the norm that when a car is brought in for a warranty campaign like this, the repair is done and the VIN added to a database (accessible by any dealership who does warranty repairs for that brand) so that (1) they can verify the repair was done and (2) prevent it from being done again.

You don't need a ticket, a coupon, or anything else. Just the VIN. For anyone else but Toyota, that is.

 

[Lumberg]

I received that postcard in the mail. I remember thinking I should just take it in and have it inspected, I think I had the option of taking it to a Lexus dealership and there's one nearby, I don't have a good relationship with the local Toyota dealership (they once did some work w/o my prior authorization).

Maybe I'll spend a little time digging that thing up, anything that helps you know.

 

[Lumberg]

The service advisor just asked for two more hours of diagnostic time.

Foil before puking up a new engine or playing me for a fool?

The arbitrator in N'awlins will hear for me if the latter, but just thought I'd ask.

 

[brianl703]

How many hours of diagnostic time do they need to come to the conclusion that engine is [censored]?

 

[MrCritical]

From reading these boards, I had the opinion that only GM had bad service departments. I stand corrected.

 

[Lumberg]

Originally Posted By: brianl703
How many hours of diagnostic time do they need to come to the conclusion that engine is [censored]?


Three, apparently.

I believe the first hour was to pop the valve cover of the front bank (which I had already done)--no sludge here, guv'nor!

Next two are presumably to pop the oil pan. I figured since I had just virtually paid for them to tell me what I already knew, I asked to see the oil pan.

I wished I had a camera. There were pieces of piston and bottom half of conrod in there. Didn't see the conrod itself; may have been grenaded, or what wedged somewhere and seized the engine.

Oh also the wrist pin was in there. It was in good shape

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Lumberg
Originally Posted By: brianl703
How many hours of diagnostic time do they need to come to the conclusion that engine is [censored]?


Three, apparently.

I believe the first hour was to pop the valve cover of the front bank (which I had already done)--no sludge here, guv'nor!

Next two are presumably to pop the oil pan. I figured since I had just virtually paid for them to tell me what I already knew, I asked to see the oil pan.

I wished I had a camera. There were pieces of piston and bottom half of conrod in there. Didn't see the conrod itself; may have been grenaded, or what wedged somewhere and seized the engine.

Oh also the wrist pin was in there. It was in good shape

So, now what?

Did you reiterate to the service manager that the engine is clean (as proven to him), and that this type of failure is unacceptable on a Toyota engine of such low mileage?

 

[Lumberg]

Anyway this assistant manager service writer Bobby, I just sort of laid it out for him how I know all about the settlement and the arbitrator in N'awlins and that I had my maintenance records with me.

So, following the Critic's advice, I asked for a goodwill resolution. I just basically asked him to help me out. He let me photocopy a bunch of relevant pages from my maintenance notebook and he said he'd hand it off to corporate and see what he could do.

Still iffy. However they know that I know about the settlement and the arbitration proceedings.

My stance is still, if they give me back the car with a new engine, I'll thank them and be on my way. I won't claim for the lack of use, rental car, mental anguish, etc.

If I have to go to arbitration, they're paying for ALL that.

 

[The Critic]

I would also state to them that you've been a loyal Toyota customer, and that you had been considering the purchase of a new Toyota in the future. Be sure to state to them again that this is absolutely unacceptable on a well-maintained, low-mileage Toyota engine, and that you expect nothing less than Toyota covering 100% of the bill.

I'm not sure what's the correct protocol for Toyota, but you may want to contact or get ready to contact corporate yourself.

 

[Lumberg]

Looks like we cross-posted. Yes I told him I drive for gas mileage and that there's no reason for the engine to have thrown a conrod or blasted a piston.

I pled my case on the basis of a new oil change washing sludge off the hotter surfaces and causing a clog either in the squirt nozzle for the underside of that piston or in the oil hole that feeds the rod bearing for that cylinder.

That plus the fact that cylinders of well-maintained Toyota engines don't just go "boom" for no reason.

Whatever I said, and I tried to throw as many buzzwords into the dialogue as possible, he at least says he's willing to work with me.

 

[MrCritical]

Most service advisors have zero authority. Bobby may be the exception. If you don't get a satisfactory answer, go over his head.