No matter which car maker you root for, increasing sales by any of them is probably good news.
Well, unless you are anti-car!
Well, unless you are anti-car!
Toyota holds top spot...
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Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
The last Yaris I was in, the interior looked like it was put together by a retarded leper on meth. I posted pictures on this board and was called an outright liar! LOL!
The Focus has all kinds of mismatched grains and colors in the interior.
The last Yaris I was in, the interior looked like it was put together by a retarded leper on meth. I posted pictures on this board and was called an outright liar! LOL!
The Focus has all kinds of mismatched grains and colors in the interior.
Originally Posted By: brianl703
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
The ride was mush and the handling was subpar.
I think that must be what their customers, who have an apparent tendency to also confuse the "go" and "stop" pedals, want?
Yeah, I would agree! Toyota has stayed with what has worked and what their customers want...No doubt!
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
The ride was mush and the handling was subpar.
I think that must be what their customers, who have an apparent tendency to also confuse the "go" and "stop" pedals, want?
Yeah, I would agree! Toyota has stayed with what has worked and what their customers want...No doubt!
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
The last Yaris I was in, the interior looked like it was put together by a retarded leper on meth. I posted pictures on this board and was called an outright liar! LOL!
I agree with that... My friend a rented Yaris a few months ago and it was exactly like that.
The last Yaris I was in, the interior looked like it was put together by a retarded leper on meth. I posted pictures on this board and was called an outright liar! LOL!
I agree with that... My friend a rented Yaris a few months ago and it was exactly like that.
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Phenomenal, deadly effective, very highly paid ad/marketing companies, and textbook brainwashing.
I had relatives that were brainwashed in the 80's and 90's into thinking Toyota was the best car on earth...Now they all drive Fords and they all have zero plans on going back to Toyota.
Phenomenal, deadly effective, very highly paid ad/marketing companies, and textbook brainwashing.
I had relatives that were brainwashed in the 80's and 90's into thinking Toyota was the best car on earth...Now they all drive Fords and they all have zero plans on going back to Toyota.
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
Yeah, I would agree! Toyota has stayed with what has worked and what their customers want...No doubt!
I'm curious who Toyota customers ARE, demographically. One of the articles claimed that most of the unintended acceleration incidents involved geriatric drivers. Are Toyotas especially popular with older drivers, as Cadillacs once were?
Yeah, I would agree! Toyota has stayed with what has worked and what their customers want...No doubt!
I'm curious who Toyota customers ARE, demographically. One of the articles claimed that most of the unintended acceleration incidents involved geriatric drivers. Are Toyotas especially popular with older drivers, as Cadillacs once were?
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
And as far as driving dynamics
Years ago I was discussing my forthcoming strut and shock replacement on my 1988 Mustang GT with a friend of mine. One of his friends chimes in and says, "I have 150k on my Camry and it doesn't need new shocks".
And there you have it, one Toyota owner's perspective of how much they care about handling. I think he was trying to imply that his Camry had such superior reliability that it didn't need new shocks (struts actually, not that I would have expected this guy to know the difference), but I took from it that he simply didn't care enough to notice that the struts were deteriorated.
And as far as driving dynamics
Years ago I was discussing my forthcoming strut and shock replacement on my 1988 Mustang GT with a friend of mine. One of his friends chimes in and says, "I have 150k on my Camry and it doesn't need new shocks".
And there you have it, one Toyota owner's perspective of how much they care about handling. I think he was trying to imply that his Camry had such superior reliability that it didn't need new shocks (struts actually, not that I would have expected this guy to know the difference), but I took from it that he simply didn't care enough to notice that the struts were deteriorated.
Originally Posted By: brianl703
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
Yeah, I would agree! Toyota has stayed with what has worked and what their customers want...No doubt!
I'm curious who Toyota customers ARE, demographically. One of the articles claimed that most of the unintended acceleration incidents involved geriatric drivers. Are Toyotas especially popular with older drivers, as Cadillacs once were?
The average age for Toyota buyers is up there. I can't recall the exact number, but it was in the range of the Buick and Cadillac demographic. That's what motivated Toyota to introduce the Scion label. The only problem they've found is that quite a few of the Toyota bunch are simply crossing the showroom to buy a Scion. It's not helping their aging demographics as much as they'd hoped.
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
Yeah, I would agree! Toyota has stayed with what has worked and what their customers want...No doubt!
I'm curious who Toyota customers ARE, demographically. One of the articles claimed that most of the unintended acceleration incidents involved geriatric drivers. Are Toyotas especially popular with older drivers, as Cadillacs once were?
The average age for Toyota buyers is up there. I can't recall the exact number, but it was in the range of the Buick and Cadillac demographic. That's what motivated Toyota to introduce the Scion label. The only problem they've found is that quite a few of the Toyota bunch are simply crossing the showroom to buy a Scion. It's not helping their aging demographics as much as they'd hoped.
Originally Posted By: rshunter
That's what motivated Toyota to introduce the Scion label. The only problem they've found is that quite a few of the Toyota bunch are simply crossing the showroom to buy a Scion. It's not helping their aging demographics as much as they'd hoped.
I think it will, but it'll take time. The average Scion buyer is, I think, 26 years old. It'll take some time for these folks to mature, start having families, and begin to move up into the Sienna and Highlander vehicles. Or at least that's Toyota's hope.
That's what motivated Toyota to introduce the Scion label. The only problem they've found is that quite a few of the Toyota bunch are simply crossing the showroom to buy a Scion. It's not helping their aging demographics as much as they'd hoped.
I think it will, but it'll take time. The average Scion buyer is, I think, 26 years old. It'll take some time for these folks to mature, start having families, and begin to move up into the Sienna and Highlander vehicles. Or at least that's Toyota's hope.
Originally Posted By: brianl703
Years ago I was discussing my forthcoming strut and shock replacement on my 1988 Mustang GT with a friend of mine. One of his friends chimes in and says, "I have 150k on my Camry and it doesn't need new shocks".
Who knows, it may not have needed new dampers. Did you ride in or drive the vehicle to accurately judge his statement?
One of my favorite cars I've ever owned was a 1997 Cadillac SLS. My mom bought it when it was just a year old, and it stayed in the family until just last year, when my brother traded it off on a new CTS. That SLS had about 180k miles on the original, and electronic dampers (struts in the front and air shocks in the back). It still rode like a dream. There wasn't any appreciable float over large bumps and no wheel hop over smaller ones.
At 150k miles, his Camry may well have not needed new ones, who knows. This is a bit off-topic, but I believe that damper replacement is a bit over-rated. Unless the dampers show signs of leaking or if they have an internal noise, they stay very functional for much longer than many believe.
Years ago I was discussing my forthcoming strut and shock replacement on my 1988 Mustang GT with a friend of mine. One of his friends chimes in and says, "I have 150k on my Camry and it doesn't need new shocks".
Who knows, it may not have needed new dampers. Did you ride in or drive the vehicle to accurately judge his statement?
One of my favorite cars I've ever owned was a 1997 Cadillac SLS. My mom bought it when it was just a year old, and it stayed in the family until just last year, when my brother traded it off on a new CTS. That SLS had about 180k miles on the original, and electronic dampers (struts in the front and air shocks in the back). It still rode like a dream. There wasn't any appreciable float over large bumps and no wheel hop over smaller ones.
At 150k miles, his Camry may well have not needed new ones, who knows. This is a bit off-topic, but I believe that damper replacement is a bit over-rated. Unless the dampers show signs of leaking or if they have an internal noise, they stay very functional for much longer than many believe.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Who knows, it may not have needed new dampers. Did you ride in or drive the vehicle to accurately judge his statement?
It probably did not "need" new struts. Neither did my Mustang. It didn't "need" new shocks or struts either. However, I "want"ed to replace what was in there with better shocks and struts because I believed that the handling of that Mustang would be improved by their replacement, and that is my desired outcome. (BTW, the new upgraded shocks and struts made a major improvement).
That the Camry owner couldn't, apparently, understand the concept of replacing suspension components for better handling is the real point here.
If he's happy with the ride of his Camry, so be it. However, making a comment about how he has never had to change the shocks and struts states a lot more about his preferences as a driver than it does about the reliability of his car or mine.
Quote:
This is a bit off-topic, but I believe that damper replacement is a bit over-rated.
I believe otherwise.
Quote:
Unless the dampers show signs of leaking or if they have an internal noise, they stay very functional for much longer than many believe.
Functional, yes, for some definition of the word.
It is my experience that shocks and struts do deteriorate over time, and I am sensitive to that deterioration. This deterioration is noticeable to me long before they get to the point of leaking or having an internal noise.
I am aware that many drivers do not notice this deterioration, or do not care about it. Perhaps they would rather spend the money elsewhere as long as the car rolls from point "A" to point "B". I expect that the Camry driver which is the subject of the previous post falls into that category.
Who knows, it may not have needed new dampers. Did you ride in or drive the vehicle to accurately judge his statement?
It probably did not "need" new struts. Neither did my Mustang. It didn't "need" new shocks or struts either. However, I "want"ed to replace what was in there with better shocks and struts because I believed that the handling of that Mustang would be improved by their replacement, and that is my desired outcome. (BTW, the new upgraded shocks and struts made a major improvement).
That the Camry owner couldn't, apparently, understand the concept of replacing suspension components for better handling is the real point here.
If he's happy with the ride of his Camry, so be it. However, making a comment about how he has never had to change the shocks and struts states a lot more about his preferences as a driver than it does about the reliability of his car or mine.
Quote:
This is a bit off-topic, but I believe that damper replacement is a bit over-rated.
I believe otherwise.
Quote:
Unless the dampers show signs of leaking or if they have an internal noise, they stay very functional for much longer than many believe.
Functional, yes, for some definition of the word.
It is my experience that shocks and struts do deteriorate over time, and I am sensitive to that deterioration. This deterioration is noticeable to me long before they get to the point of leaking or having an internal noise.
I am aware that many drivers do not notice this deterioration, or do not care about it. Perhaps they would rather spend the money elsewhere as long as the car rolls from point "A" to point "B". I expect that the Camry driver which is the subject of the previous post falls into that category.
Originally Posted By: brianl703
That the Camry owner couldn't, apparently, understand the concept of replacing suspension components for better handling is the real point here.
I'd say that a lot of drivers out there don't know the ins and outs of how their cars work. I'm sure many people couldn't distinguish how a FWD drives different from a RWD, or how race brakes really grab when hot but can be hard when cold, etc.
That the Camry owner couldn't, apparently, understand the concept of replacing suspension components for better handling is the real point here.
I'd say that a lot of drivers out there don't know the ins and outs of how their cars work. I'm sure many people couldn't distinguish how a FWD drives different from a RWD, or how race brakes really grab when hot but can be hard when cold, etc.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: brianl703
That the Camry owner couldn't, apparently, understand the concept of replacing suspension components for better handling is the real point here.
I'd say that a lot of drivers out there don't know the ins and outs of how their cars work. I'm sure many people couldn't distinguish how a FWD drives different from a RWD, or how race brakes really grab when hot but can be hard when cold, etc.
But the thing is those same people can tell you how great their car is and will never need any repairs and how another brand they no nothing about is junk. They know so because they saw the commercials or read it Consumer Reports or Car and Driver or maybe they got it second hand from Joe who read it in CU and CR.
Originally Posted By: brianl703
That the Camry owner couldn't, apparently, understand the concept of replacing suspension components for better handling is the real point here.
I'd say that a lot of drivers out there don't know the ins and outs of how their cars work. I'm sure many people couldn't distinguish how a FWD drives different from a RWD, or how race brakes really grab when hot but can be hard when cold, etc.
But the thing is those same people can tell you how great their car is and will never need any repairs and how another brand they no nothing about is junk. They know so because they saw the commercials or read it Consumer Reports or Car and Driver or maybe they got it second hand from Joe who read it in CU and CR.
[ ] Toyota makes superior vehicles compared to it's peers
[ ] Domestic automakers produce junk
[ ] Pennzoil conventional sludges engines
[ ] ARX works wonders
[ ] MMO is awesome
[ ] If it's on the internet, it must be true
[ ] Fram makes [censored] filters
[X] Perception is reality for most people
[ ] Domestic automakers produce junk
[ ] Pennzoil conventional sludges engines
[ ] ARX works wonders
[ ] MMO is awesome
[ ] If it's on the internet, it must be true
[ ] Fram makes [censored] filters
[X] Perception is reality for most people
Japanese car owner: I've had to replace the transmission twice, the block cracked, and the oil filter leaked and burned the car to the ground. It's the most wonderful, reliable car.
American car owner: I had to tighten a screw to keep the sun visor from drooping. What a piece of junk.
Ed
American car owner: I had to tighten a screw to keep the sun visor from drooping. What a piece of junk.
Ed
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
But the thing is those same people can tell you how great their car is and will never need any repairs and how another brand they no nothing about is junk.
Probably so, and it's their loss. How many people still think Pennzoil and Quaker State cause sludge (hint: a lot). That's their loss.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
They know so because they saw the commercials or read it Consumer Reports or Car and Driver or maybe they got it second hand from Joe who read it in CU and CR.
Again, their loss. I'm not sure what the "point" of this is, except simply to point out that some people think Toyotas are perfect and never need any repairs. Sure, there are people like that out there. They're wrong, but they're out there. I don't think this is news to anyone. There are a lot of people who think that Brand X oil is perfect or Brand Y tires are perfect.
But the thing is those same people can tell you how great their car is and will never need any repairs and how another brand they no nothing about is junk.
Probably so, and it's their loss. How many people still think Pennzoil and Quaker State cause sludge (hint: a lot). That's their loss.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
They know so because they saw the commercials or read it Consumer Reports or Car and Driver or maybe they got it second hand from Joe who read it in CU and CR.
Again, their loss. I'm not sure what the "point" of this is, except simply to point out that some people think Toyotas are perfect and never need any repairs. Sure, there are people like that out there. They're wrong, but they're out there. I don't think this is news to anyone. There are a lot of people who think that Brand X oil is perfect or Brand Y tires are perfect.
Originally Posted By: edhackett
Japanese car owner: I've had to replace the transmission twice, the block cracked, and the oil filter leaked and burned the car to the ground. It's the most wonderful, reliable car.
American car owner: I had to tighten a screw to keep the sun visor from drooping. What a piece of junk.
Ed
Possibly the best comment i've ever read!
Japanese car owner: I've had to replace the transmission twice, the block cracked, and the oil filter leaked and burned the car to the ground. It's the most wonderful, reliable car.
American car owner: I had to tighten a screw to keep the sun visor from drooping. What a piece of junk.
Ed
ls1mike
$50 Site Donor 2026
Originally Posted By: edhackett
Japanese car owner: I've had to replace the transmission twice, the block cracked, and the oil filter leaked and burned the car to the ground. It's the most wonderful, reliable car.
American car owner: I had to tighten a screw to keep the sun visor from drooping. What a piece of junk.
Ed
I think there is some truth to that, just based off some of my personal experiences.
Japanese car owner: I've had to replace the transmission twice, the block cracked, and the oil filter leaked and burned the car to the ground. It's the most wonderful, reliable car.
American car owner: I had to tighten a screw to keep the sun visor from drooping. What a piece of junk.
Ed
I think there is some truth to that, just based off some of my personal experiences.
Originally Posted By: brianl703
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
Yeah, I would agree! Toyota has stayed with what has worked and what their customers want...No doubt!
I'm curious who Toyota customers ARE, demographically. One of the articles claimed that most of the unintended acceleration incidents involved geriatric drivers. Are Toyotas especially popular with older drivers, as Cadillacs once were?
Thinking of the people I know off hand who drive toyota's (including me), here's my breakdown by model and age (in no particular order):
Corolla 37
Corolla 37
Rav4 60
Camry 70
Tacoma 38
Tercel 25
Corolla 55
Yaris 40
Yaris 35
Yaris 32
Average Age: 43
Median Age: 37
Not scientific, but regardless, I think they do appeal more to the 35+ demographic (and no ceiling on age).
-Spyder
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
Yeah, I would agree! Toyota has stayed with what has worked and what their customers want...No doubt!
I'm curious who Toyota customers ARE, demographically. One of the articles claimed that most of the unintended acceleration incidents involved geriatric drivers. Are Toyotas especially popular with older drivers, as Cadillacs once were?
Thinking of the people I know off hand who drive toyota's (including me), here's my breakdown by model and age (in no particular order):
Corolla 37
Corolla 37
Rav4 60
Camry 70
Tacoma 38
Tercel 25
Corolla 55
Yaris 40
Yaris 35
Yaris 32
Average Age: 43
Median Age: 37
Not scientific, but regardless, I think they do appeal more to the 35+ demographic (and no ceiling on age).
-Spyder
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