Towing with 2018 Toyota Sienna

[Captsunshine32724]

I'd be wary of what the gauge tells you. Plenty of people still think cooler is better and that anything over 180F is death. But that was true 20, 30 years ago. The trans in my truck sits at 190F just going down the highway. 230F can be seen under some conditions, and I think that might be where the thermostat opens for the cooler! Be wary of hooking up a gauge and using outdated information as a guide--there may be value in hooking up a gauge and putting on some miles just motoring around without a trailer, just to get an idea of what it does under light normal usage.

Thanks for the thoughts. I would most certainly operate the van with no load in a variety of scenarios in order to develop a baseline of normal operating parameters. You are correct about the newer vehicles seeking a higher temp. The above mentioned tranny shop told me that this van will not send the fluid to the on board cooler until the fluid reaches the desired temp set by toyota, which is pretty high. So a baseline number is certainly needed in order to determine if while towing I am pushing it too hard, or if all is well.

 

[Captsunshine32724]

It was just about 4000 lbs loaded up. Handled well due to the double axle, short length (19ft tip to tail), and relatively high tongue weight (700lbs). The van is still in use today without issues. The van has a payload capacity of 1608lbs and was under on that and axle ratings towing the funfinder (but over the tow rating by about 500 lbs).

With 700 pounds tongue weight I'm curious what you did to control ride height? I have been reading of some adding airbags with good results. What type of hitch system were you using? I'm planning on an Equalizer at this point unless someone points out a superior product.

 

[MacManus99]

Edit: replied to the wrong message. Oops.

 

[MacManus99]

Thanks McManus99

Which unit do you prefer? I just checked them both out and the Ultra Gauge looks more refined. Wired or wireless?? I see that the wired version of the Ultra does not support user updates and must be returned to the factory for updates, while the wireless version is more user friendly in that regard.

I own both the ScanGauge II and the UltraGauge, each installed in a different vehicle. Both have their upsides. The ScanGauge II is much more user friendly, its menus and capabilities are simplistic and easy to navigate. That said, UltraGauge has far more capability, it allows you to set audible alarms and has many more options for data that is displayed. Its display is nicer, too. I do find its menus complex and difficult to navigate, though.

If you have time and patience to put into reading the manual and setting up the UltraGauge, it would be my recommendation. If you are the type to become frustrated with choice overload and occasional undesired alarm activation, then I would stick with the simpler ScanGauge II.

I use the ScanGauge in my FRS because it was the only one of the two that was capable of displaying engine oil temp, and even that had to be unlocked with an update. Oil temp info has been good to have because the car sees track time. I rarely see above 215° on the street.

 

[Captsunshine32724]

I own both the ScanGauge II and the UltraGauge, each installed in a different vehicle. Both have their upsides. The ScanGauge II is much more user friendly, its menus and capabilities are simplistic and easy to navigate. That said, UltraGauge has far more capability, it allows you to set audible alarms and has many more options for data that is displayed. Its display is nicer, too. I do find its menus complex and difficult to navigate, though.

If you have time and patience to put into reading the manual and setting up the UltraGauge, it would be my recommendation. If you are the type to become frustrated with choice overload and occasional undesired alarm activation, then I would stick with the simpler ScanGauge II.

I use the ScanGauge in my FRS because it was the only one of the two that was capable of displaying engine oil temp, and even that had to be unlocked with an update. Oil temp info has been good to have because the car sees track time. I rarely see above 215° on the street.

Thanks

 

[tcp71]

With 700 pounds tongue weight I'm curious what you did to control ride height? I have been reading of some adding airbags with good results. What type of hitch system were you using? I'm planning on an Equalizer at this point unless someone points out a superior product.

I had airbags and used an old Reese trunion mount WDH (with pull up chains) with 600lb bars. Tracked very well. The van has a nice low center of gravity. I have been using the same scan gauge II for over 10 years. Adding custom gauges allows me to watch any parameter available on the OBDII bus. Highly recommend.

 

[Luftmasse]

The main concern is HEAT. Monitoring the ATF Temp while driving would be wise. Take breaks so the tranny can cool down and dont let it overheat.

 

[edyvw]

I travel a lot on long haul trips with my SIenna fully loaded, to the limit, but no towing.
Here is what I would do:
1. Transmission fluid to Amsoil Sever Gear or Redline D6.
2. Engine oil: Bump to 5W30 full synthetic. I use Mobil1 5W30 EP. Excellent UOA.
3. See if you have transmission cooler if not, install one.
4. Is it AWD? If it is go Redline 75W85 in TC.
5. Rear diff. Redline 75W85.

 

[edyvw]

To add:
Toyota, unless we are talking dropping kids to school etc. has IMO seriously crappy brakes. I had to go aftermarket on both land Cruiser and Sienna.
WHile pads might be OK (but just OK) rotors are weakest point. Get something like Brembo (they go around $70 per rotor for SIenna).
Upgrade brake fluid to DOT4, like ATE TYP200 or Pentosin.
I personally would go also with aftermarket pads. I have EBC Greenstuff and they improved bite and modulation dramatically. WIll try next one probably Hawk Ceramic. But, for towing, definitely upgrade brakes.

 

[meep]

Has the OP said what he’ll be towing? a pop-up is much easier than a hard shell due to frontal area.... totally different beasts. I pulled a pop up with the infamous Chrysler 41TE and the long wheelbase minivan was a great tow vehicle. The popup was 2500 lbs, plus gear, and in the van there were 4 of us. I had no auxiliary cooler on the transmission and we pulled in northern Virginia and some West Virginia, so it saw hills. It simply didn’t give us any trouble. I’d work the engine some but also stayed within reason. At 60,000 miles I changed the atf+4 and it was clean, cherry red. i towed in D3, not OD.

the only solid advice I would offer is to NOT tow in an overdriven gear. The driven gear in OD is a smaller gear and will create a lot of heat. In a smaller transmission, letting the engine rev without forcing smaller OD gears to handle that kind of pressure helps keep the temps down significantly. I experienced this with our tundra as well - installed a mechanical temp gauge and the trans generated more heat in OD. the sienna is such a quiet machine, the higher revs shouldn’t be a nuisance with drone, and keeping a lower gear will reduce the shifting under load.

pay attention to your weights and consider a weight distributing hitch, especially if the front end gets light under firm braking. I try to avoid airbags with a properly adjusted WDH. Take your time setting it up, and don’t out-drive the chassis, especially if the trailer doesn’t have brakes.

happy camping!!

m

 

[edyvw]

Has the OP said what he’ll be towing? a pop-up is much easier than a hard shell due to frontal area.... totally different beasts. I pulled a pop up with the infamous Chrysler 41TE and the long wheelbase minivan was a great tow vehicle. The popup was 2500 lbs, plus gear, and in the van there were 4 of us. I had no auxiliary cooler on the transmission and we pulled in northern Virginia and some West Virginia, so it saw hills. It simply didn’t give us any trouble. I’d work the engine some but also stayed within reason. At 60,000 miles I changed the atf+4 and it was clean, cherry red. i towed in D3, not OD.

the only solid advice I would offer is to NOT tow in an overdriven gear. The driven gear in OD is a smaller gear and will create a lot of heat. In a smaller transmission, letting the engine rev without forcing smaller OD gears to handle that kind of pressure helps keep the temps down significantly. I experienced this with our tundra as well - installed a mechanical temp gauge and the trans generated more heat in OD. the sienna is such a quiet machine, the higher revs shouldn’t be a nuisance with drone, and keeping a lower gear will reduce the shifting under load.

pay attention to your weights and consider a weight distributing hitch, especially if the front end gets light under firm braking. I try to avoid airbags with a properly adjusted WDH. Take your time setting it up, and don’t out-drive the chassis, especially if the trailer doesn’t have brakes.

happy camping!!

m

Sienna has torque very high. For example when I climb the Rockies, or I am currently in Las Vegas visiting in laws, any uphill I move transmission selector to S, where it disengage OD. Much better, as in OD it really, really struggles to keep my desired speed.
This new engine in SIenna has torque even higher.

 

[JMJNet]

Add Airlift on the rear spring?

 

[edyvw]

Add Airlift on the rear spring?

I was researching options to lift Sienna, etc. and not much out there. Not even heavy duty shocks. If anyone knows anything, where to get heavy duty shocks etc. I would appreciate info.

 

[JMJNet]

I have one for my 2017 Sienna and I bought it from AutoAnything.
It is actually a special air balloon inserted inside the spring cavity.
Then, you put air tubes directed into the jack storage, then you can adjust the pressure like tires.
Higher pressure when you need to tow.

It is not a lift just something to help the rear suspension to not sink lower when towing.
I don't use mine for towing, though.

Check AutoAnything or eTrailer, they have a few videos on the install.

 

[SoNic67]

4. Is it AWD? If it is go Redline 75W85 in TC.
5. Rear diff. Redline 75W85.

In my RAV4 4WD (same V6 engine) I use RedLine 75W110 in Transfer Case and Rear diff. I understand the 75W instead of 80W, but why would you go below the 90 that Toyota recommends?

I was researching options to lift Sienna

Use a weight distribution hitch. It keeps the center of mass in front of trailer axle, but sends the weight back to the trailer's wheels. Like a wheelbarrow

Much better, as in OD it really, really struggles to keep my desired speed.

In my RAV4 owner manual Toyota recommends dropping out of D when towing, to 4. That limits the strain on the transmission. Of course all the below gears work too, it just limits the top one to 4.

pay attention to your weights and consider a weight distributing hitch, especially if the front end gets light under firm braking.

A weight distributing hitch is essential for those cars. I have also added an electric brake controller on my RAV4 (with the 7 pin plug). In most of the states, that's required when towing over 3,000 lbs:

Flat Towing Law - Braking Systems

Flat Towing Laws by state. Arkansas, 3000 lbs ; California, 3000 lbs ; Colorado, 3000 lbs ; Connecticut, 3000 lbs.

rvibrake.com

 

[JHZR2]

We have done the math and after factoring in everything including the 10% tongue weight, we will be within our individual axel weight limits as well as the total vehicle gross weight (cargo capacity) The weights have all been carefully examined by me, to include a trip to the scales with our family and cargo on board with full fuel. We know the numbers and can stay within them. Our question is more one of engineering, will the machine (the tranny) stand up to towing the vehicles rated capacity over time without damage as long as it is serviced and operated properly?

Sounds like you’ve done your due diligence.

I like the idea of yearly ATF changes. Sounds like you have a factory tow package, which I assume has an ATF cooler (the Honda package does).

So it’s really contingent upon your use and your driving style. In the Rockies or along the plains? Accelerate hard and drive fast, or accelerate gently and drive slower? These sorts of things will be the big determinant.

if the vendor gave the vehicle the rating, it doesn’t mean it will be a spectacular performer, but it will work, and there is some factor of safety in there...

 

[edyvw]

In my RAV4 4WD (same V6 engine) I use RedLine 75W110 in Transfer Case and Rear diff. I understand the 75W instead of 80W, but why would you go below the 90 that Toyota recommends?

Use a weight distribution hitch. It keeps the center of mass in front of trailer axle, but sends the weight back to the trailer's wheels. Like a wheelbarrow

In my RAV4 owner manual Toyota recommends dropping out of D when towing, to 4. That limits the strain on the transmission. Of course all the below gears work too, it just limits the top one to 4.

A weight distributing hitch is essential for those cars. I have also added an electric brake controller on my RAV4 (with the 7 pin plug). In most of the states, that's required when towing over 3,000 lbs:

Flat Towing Law - Braking Systems

Flat Towing Laws by state. Arkansas, 3000 lbs ; California, 3000 lbs ; Colorado, 3000 lbs ; Connecticut, 3000 lbs.

rvibrake.com

You misunderstood me:
1. I am not towing, my issue is a. weight in the vehicle, b. clearance.
2. Toyota for 2015 Sienna (and I think generally this model) recommends 75W85. Considering that AWD is seriously as simple as possible, not sure why would I go 75W110? I think more robust fluid like Redline will do the trick.
3. Yes, dropping to S4 makes thing better as engine is really not suitable for towing, etc. considering that for any kind of performance going uphill it is imperative to keep rpms above 4,000. I am at the weight limit now currently at Bryce Canyon and I am averaging 16.9mpg last 1,300 miles of this trip, almost all HWY, except 100-150mls around Vegas (but I was empty too). Though, i do not drop below 90mph on HWY and have Yakima roof box up, and 3 bikes on the hitch.

 

[edyvw]

I have one for my 2017 Sienna and I bought it from AutoAnything.
It is actually a special air balloon inserted inside the spring cavity.
Then, you put air tubes directed into the jack storage, then you can adjust the pressure like tires.
Higher pressure when you need to tow.

It is not a lift just something to help the rear suspension to not sink lower when towing.
I don't use mine for towing, though.

Check AutoAnything or eTrailer, they have a few videos on the install.

Yeah, I do not use mine for towing, but we haul a lot of stuff inside that it is really issue, especially since hitch (for bikes) sits low.
But generally I would like stiffer shocks. I get why air balloon would be good. I had it on my X5 35d, but then that car was so much more capable in general, except space wise.

 

[SoNic67]

I get why air balloon would be good.

I have read on forums that some brands have a tendency to leak the air trough their pores, when under increased pressure (loading). If there is an on-board compressor with pressure monitoring, that's fine, but otherwise I see how it can get annoying.

hitch (for bikes) sits low

When I did the research for my hitch, I saw that the non-Toyota hitches were all sitting too far from the car (low to ground).
The Toyota OE hitch was more expensive, but it "hugs" the car better. Plus, for my RAV4, it came with other lateral stiffener parts that non-OE hitches don't provide. For towing, it was a no-brainer to choose that one.
Bike racks can get quickly above that car's tongue weigh and torque rating. In my owner manual I have specified not only a tongue weight but also a max distance of application of that load (measured from the rear axle).

 

[edyvw]

I have read on forums that some brands have a tendency to leak the air trough their pores, when under increased pressure (loading). If there is an on-board compressor with pressure monitoring, that's fine, but otherwise I see how it can get annoying.

When I did the research for my hitch, I saw that the non-Toyota hitches were all sitting too far from the car (low to ground).
The Toyota OE hitch was more expensive, but it "hugs" the car better. Plus, for my RAV4, it came with other lateral stiffener parts that non-OE hitches don't provide. For towing, it was a no-brainer to choose that one.
Bike racks can get quickly above that car's tongue weigh and torque rating. In my owner manual I have specified not only a tongue weight but also a max distance of application of that load (measured from the rear axle).

Yeah could be. And my bike rack is swing one, it is at least 50lbs, and goes far out.