Towing w/ 4-Cylinder Turbo

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Most European engines today are gas turbo. We are talking turbo issues, and yet your argument is “diesel’s are built like a tank.” So, what is difference between turbo on diesel and gas? I co-own delivery business in Europe. 10yrs ago we had all turbo diesels.

You mentioned 18 wheelers. Those are all diesels (at least here in north america). Diesels are all built much stronger as they have to withstand enormous amounts of heat and compression vs gassers and of course the intended duty cycle. However they also have enormous repair bills associated with them (like the 30k CAD I mentioned).

Now we have 34 gas turbo vehicles, 1.5T and 2.0T. Most of them haul more than 99% of people will with F350.

I cannot take your argument seriously when you write complete nonsense like this.
 
And every diesel I've driven has an egt sensor or gauge and will go into limp mode if it gets too high. I'm pretty sure the semi trucks are running at low boost just cruising along (under 10 psi) while a little 4 cylinder will probably be boosting more.

The new hurricane HO is 28 psi.
 
I cannot take your argument seriously when you write complete nonsense like this.

There's individuals here insisting the OP needs a huge truck to tow a 1,300kg caravan. Something people in Europe wouldn't think twice about hooking up to their small fully laden turbocharged petrol car and driving for hundreds of miles across country or even across Europe!

Example, go buy a Ford Focus 1.0 Ecoboost MHEV in Europe right now and it will come with a 1,500kg towing capacity. And it would tow 1,500kgs perfectly well.
 
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I think it’s more complex than that. It’s the ability to remove heat, rather than the ability to absorb heat, that matters. The iron block will absorb more, but will get hotter and hotter unless the cooling system can reject that heat to the environment.

Simple V-8 without oil cooling, and an archaic radiator, is going to overheat running at 75% power. Like a long hill.

That turbo 4, with an integrated oil cooler, and better cooling system design, will be running at 60% power, same HP output on the same long hill, and is better able to manage the heat load because of the design of the system.

I’ve towed with a turbo 4*, and the water temperature was constant, but the oil temp (it was a basic turbo, no water cooling like the truck in question) ran about 15-20C higher than normal. In the car’s favor was the thermostatically controlled, and relatively large, oil cooler mounted adjacent to the radiator.

It handled sustained high power output for hours without overheating, even with a system that was primitive in comparison to the design of the truck in question.


* 1985 Volvo turbo wagon. Turbocharged, intercooler, 4 cylinder with a manual. Total HP was 165. A lot for the time, but a paltry amount by today’s standards. Towing a double axle U-Haul with a piano and furniture. The trailer weighed about what the car weighed. It was a lot of weight for the car. Full throttle, full RPM, full boost, to get it up to speed, and a good amount of boost/throttle to sustain the speed. The car had both a boost gauge (factory installed) and an oil temperature gauge (genuine Volvo accessory that I installed). I owned the car when I lived in Virginia, and in Colorado, where it was frequently driven in the mountains. It was an education in coolant vs. oil temperature and the effect of heavy turbo loads on oil temperature. It was also an education in how well a turbocharged engine handled rarified air in the mountains.
Apples to oranges. Assume all other factors such as cooling were congruent, of course.
 
You mentioned 18 wheelers. Those are all diesels (at least here in north america). Diesels are all built much stronger as they have to withstand enormous amounts of heat and compression vs gassers and of course the intended duty cycle. However they also have enormous repair bills associated with them (like the 30k CAD I mentioned).



I cannot take your argument seriously when you write complete nonsense like this.
I see you are well versed about how much these vehicles haul, which regularly make 500-800k km before trading in. Everything that needs to be delivered to your average business there is hauled or towed by commercial vehicles, biggest being something like MB Sprinter. European cities don’t have roads to support inner city 18 wheeler delivery. You need to deliver 5,000lbs freezer? It goes onto those vehicles.
Also, nonsense? That same F350 has diesel that has longevity of average water pump on VW turbo engine.
 
Interestingly, the vehicles that are specifically designed for towing (18 wheelers) all have turbo.
In Europe all commercial vehicles are turbo, and they haul far more than most people will ever tow, and they tow too.
Now, what I would do, regardless of turbo or not, especially if high altitude is anticipated, is installing radiator style oil and transmission coolers.
and big rigs have massive engines
 
The OP asked about towing a small RV with a mid sized SUV - but we have now covered everything with wheels …
Again, if your market is the issue - get it shipped over - and have what she wants - and what you feel is safe …
 
There is a reason the ford super duty's don't use eco boosts but instead use large big block n/a 7.3 with an iron block. Longevity and mpg being the primary ones.
And what is the reason that the Ford Super Duty, with the highest towing capacity, and greatest torque, has a turbo?

Nobody is saying the the Ford F-250 with the 6.7L turbodiesel is weak, right? Not “eco-boost” but the turbodiesel crushes the gas engine where it matters - torque. My buddy replaced his gasoline Tahoe with a Super Duty diesel for better towing. A V-8 gasoline engine is good, but a turbo diesel is better. The HO has more than double the torque of the V-8 gasoline engine. More than double.

The original point of this thread is can you tow a lightweight trailer with a 4 cylinder turbo.

The answer, despite all the detours down rabbit holes like this one, remains: Yes.

Easily.
 
There's individuals here insisting the OP needs a huge truck to tow a 1,300kg caravan. Something people in Europe wouldn't think twice about hooking up to their small fully laden turbocharged petrol car and driving for hundreds of miles across country or even across Europe!

Example, go buy a Ford Focus 1.0 Ecoboost MHEV in Europe right now and it will come with a 1,500kg towing capacity. And it would tow 1,500kgs perfectly well.

Well I wasn't insisting on anything. Just that there is a reason Ford doesn't put their ecoboosts in their super duty lineup.

There are guys here who will do the same thing. In fact I've seen things here that will make you pull out your eyeballs (check out any RV forum for some entertaining pics). Doesn't mean he won't be better off served with a heavier vehicle and a stronger engine.

Also I doubt your cars are using the J2807 towing standard that all pickup trucks in North America use; so your towing ratings are basically the manufacturer throwing a dart at the wall and saying "yeah it will tow that much". You can't directly compare one car's rating over there vs a car/truck over here. Well I don't think our cars use J2807 either but that's beside the point, the point being you can't compare ratings if they're not using the same standard.
 
Tell me what i slow for you?
Speed is relative. I do not think that I should be able to make world records while pulling a trailer, nor do I roll down the road at 80 with a 15k trailer. Should I be able to get to relative safe speed while merging on a highway whilst accelerating on the on ramp, yes. W

What I meant, was torque does not equal power. Yes torque is what moves the weight, you are correct, in the age old discussion. But can the POWER is not congruent to torque. And overall POWER output is what you need, in towing.
 
And what is the reason that the Ford Super Duty, with the highest towing capacity, and greatest torque, has a turbo?

Nobody is saying the the Ford F-250 with the 6.7L turbodiesel is weak, right? Not “eco-boost” but the turbodiesel crushes the gas engine where it matters - torque. My buddy replaced his gasoline Tahoe with a Super Duty diesel for better towing. A V-8 gasoline engine is good, but a turbo diesel is better. The HO has more than double the torque of the V-8 gasoline engine. More than double.
As I said, turbos are required once you want to meet a certain hp/torque rating and you're constrained by physical space (engine compartment). They absolutely do put out more power, but they absolutely do get very hot and fail more often than gassers and have more expensive repairs, some of them requiring the cab to come off.

Check out any towing threads and you'll see the amount of guys dropping diesels in favour of the new HD gassers just keeps going up. If the gasser is strong enough, many prefer it despite being down on power vs the HD diesels.

The original point of this thread is can you tow a lightweight trailer with a 4 cylinder turbo.
"Can" and "better off not" are different things. I'm not saying OP's case won't work, just that he may be better off with a stronger engine without turbos.

The answer, despite all the detours down rabbit holes like this one, remains: Yes.

Easily.
All subjective. The point is that a bigger NA engine might be the better option.
 
Speed is relative. I do not think that I should be able to make world records while pulling a trailer, nor do I roll down the road at 80 with a 15k trailer. Should I be able to get to relative safe speed while merging on a highway whilst accelerating on the on ramp, yes. W

What I meant, was torque does not equal power. Yes torque is what moves the weight, you are correct, in the age old discussion. But can the POWER is not congruent to torque. And overall POWER output is what you need, in towing.
The average European hwy is always faster than the average US hwy. I say HWY, as inetrstate is not on par with European style hwy which are denser and far better built. It allows much higher speeds, regardless of speed limit, and 95% of HWY's speed limit is 80mp/h, with very generous margin.
The problem in this discussion is that US market, bcs. of extremely cheap fuel, is behind rest of the world when it comes do downsizing some 30yrs, if not more. This is a discussion that Europeans had in the mid-80s.
 
Well I wasn't insisting on anything. Just that there is a reason Ford doesn't put their ecoboosts in their super duty lineup.

There are guys here who will do the same thing. In fact I've seen things here that will make you pull out your eyeballs (check out any RV forum for some entertaining pics). Doesn't mean he won't be better off served with a heavier vehicle and a stronger engine.

Also I doubt your cars are using the J2807 towing standard that all pickup trucks in North America use; so your towing ratings are basically the manufacturer throwing a dart at the wall and saying "yeah it will tow that much". You can't directly compare one car's rating over there vs a car/truck over here. Well I don't think our cars use J2807 either but that's beside the point, the point being you can't compare ratings if they're not using the same standard.
Bcs. price of gas and diesel.
Pay $9-11 for gallon, and you would have different story.
 
The original point of this thread is can you tow a lightweight trailer with a 4 cylinder turbo.

The answer, despite all the detours down rabbit holes like this one, remains: Yes.

Easily.
Yes, 100% agreed, and....... it is getting off the rails a bit.

OP should and would be able to move that trailer safely with no issues. I think some on this thread, are making a point that you cant just throw a turbo on smaller engine, increase power output and expect to tow like a HD truck. Some have this notion. And while the math adds up in output, the said vehicle would be able to do it, it would not last, day in and day out for 200000 miles.
 
I see you are well versed about how much these vehicles haul, which regularly make 500-800k km before trading in. Everything that needs to be delivered to your average business there is hauled or towed by commercial vehicles, biggest being something like MB Sprinter. European cities don’t have roads to support inner city 18 wheeler delivery. You need to deliver 5,000lbs freezer? It goes onto those vehicles.
Irrelevant.

Also, nonsense? That same F350 has diesel that has longevity of average water pump on VW turbo engine.
So one turbo diesel has longevity less than a part on another turbo. ok?
 
At what speed and are you going uphill with the gas turbos? Europeans tend to drive slower unless they're on the Autobahn or something
1. Turbo is ALWAYS better at altitude. For every 1,000ft, NA engine loses around 3% of power. Here in the Rockies I can easily, with no sweat climb Eisenhower tunnel of Vail pass at 3,000rpms fully loaded with yakima etc, while in any NA V8 you will have to keep rpm's up. Turbo was a game changer for 18wheelers in 50's and navigating the Rockies, Sierra's etc.
2. Average speed is higher in Europe. All HWY's in Europe are autobahn style, and far denser than here bcs. Europe is more urban than the US. All those roads are in 95% of cases 80%mph speed limit, with som every generous margins (Italy) or not so generous (Austria).
3. Altitude? Alps? Southern Alps? Spain?
 
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