Towing and MPG loss

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Originally Posted By: ls1mike
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
I get about 14 to 16 empty and when I am towing our 11 foot tall 35 foot long trailer I get aobut 7 to 9.
02 2500HD 6.0 gasser.

Yep mine lugs the 7500lbs around easy peasy. I have been real happy with it.


35' x 11' and weighs 7,500? Are you transporting sailboat fuel?
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
I get about 14 to 16 empty and when I am towing our 11 foot tall 35 foot long trailer I get aobut 7 to 9.
02 2500HD 6.0 gasser.

Yep mine lugs the 7500lbs around easy peasy. I have been real happy with it.


35' x 11' and weighs 7,500? Are you transporting sailboat fuel?
wink.gif



LOL! No. It is an all Aluminum Ultra light. Scaled for 5 days of camping it was 7420. The two axles combined were carrying 6750.
 
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
I get about 14 to 16 empty and when I am towing our 11 foot tall 35 foot long trailer I get aobut 7 to 9.
02 2500HD 6.0 gasser.


That's exactly what I get with my 2006 Denali 6.0L. But they pull hard
smile.gif



My 01 C3 has a 6.0 and awd. I get 20mpg on the highway. A bit less with a headwind. Towing our 6 sleeper trailer which weighs about 3500 pounds empty drops my mileage to 14 at 55mph in 3rd.
I don't tow in D. It just seems to drive better and stays cooler in 3rd.
Funny thing. Whether the trailer is empty or full of gear it doesn't affect mileage much.
 
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: Clevy
I get 20mpg on the highway.


US or Imperial. Need to clarify.



3.8 litre gallons. So I think that's U.S. Isn't it.

Imperial is a 4.0 litre gallon I thought.

I have been using mos2 in this truck since I got it a coupe years ago. I'm not a hard driver either and in all my vehicles I routinely beat EPA rated mileages
This truck now has 225000kms which I think is near 170000 miles or so.
I've noticed in my friends hd 2500 series truck with a 6.0 he can't break 16mpg. His front end is higher than mine though.
My truck has the Cadillac version of the 6.0 with 325/375. The Chevy version has 300hp and 350tq. I don't know if that affects mileage or not. I assume you need more pedal for the same load as compared to mine.
I've gotten 24 mpg in this truck before with a 30mph tailwind. It continues to surprise me.
My charger RT is rated for 25mpg highway however if I set cruise at 60 I have gotten 30+mpg before. Routinely it's closer to 28 though.
 
Either you're using imperial, or made a mistake in conversion.

Few things first:

2001 GMC Sierra C3 was equipped with the LQ4 (325hp/370TQ), which albeit rated differently, is the same engine that's under the hood of your friends 2500. This is not the "Cadillac version" of the 6.0L, which is the LQ9 that appeared in later models. For the sake of reference, 1999/2000 LQ4 had iron heads, and later models were rated higher (such as my '04).

225,000km is equivalent to 140,000 miles.

Back to the topic...

Conversion is as follows:

mpg (imperial) = 282.48 ÷ L/100 km
mpg (U.S.) = 235.21 ÷ L/100 km

I have no doubts about your ability to exceed EPA numbers to some degree, but at the reported 20 MPG, we're talking a 43% increase over those figures (11 city/14 highway). Additionally, you've stated that you're able to match EPA highway numbers while towing a trailer that weighs 3,500 pounds empty.
 
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Either you're using imperial, or made a mistake in conversion.

Few things first:

2001 GMC Sierra C3 was equipped with the LQ4 (325hp/370TQ), which albeit rated differently, is the same engine that's under the hood of your friends 2500. This is not the "Cadillac version" of the 6.0L, which is the LQ9 that appeared in later models. For the sake of reference, 1999/2000 LQ4 had iron heads, and later models were rated higher (such as my '04).

225,000km is equivalent to 140,000 miles.

Back to the topic...

Conversion is as follows:

mpg (imperial) = 282.48 ÷ L/100 km
mpg (U.S.) = 235.21 ÷ L/100 km

I have no doubts about your ability to exceed EPA numbers to some degree, but at the reported 20 MPG, we're talking a 43% increase over those figures (11 city/14 highway). Additionally, you've stated that you're able to match EPA highway numbers while towing a trailer that weighs 3,500 pounds empty.




My conversion was based on a fuel conversion app I got from the App Store. I compared it to the trucks digital fuel consumption display and it was always within 1mpg based on fuel burned.
When I filled the truck I filled it to the brim and shook it so all air bubbles were bounced out and the fuel level was almost dripping out.
After 4 months of comparing the digital readout vs the amount dispensed at the pump I quit bothering with the app.

I used 3 different fuel consumption apps just to make sure they were accurate and all 3 gave me identical numbers.

Iirc the cam in my truck is different than a stock 6.0. I got the truck with an intake spacer and cold air intake,not that I put any stock in those mods helping in any appreciable way and it's got a magnaflow exhaust vs the stock piece.
All combined it's possible they help power and or fuel economy however like I said I don't put much stock in that idea.
My driving habits are likely the contributing factor. No jack rabbit starts,easy passing. To be honest I might have floored it 10 times in 2 years.

So if the calculations are off then 3 different apps are also incorrect and the display on the console is also incorrect.
In the city the display averages 12 at best. Highway it's great considering.
My 04 ram quad cab hemi 4x4 in the winter got 20mpg consistently on the highway with 4x4 engaged,if that tells you anything about my driving habits.
Both the C3 and my charger are tuned with a diablosport handheld tuner,running maps from diablosport. The maps a have been tweaked by diablosport. I data logged from the ecu on both vehicles on 3 separate occasions to which they adjusted the fuel and ignition timing maps.
So if there's any errors it's beyond me how. Both the charger and the truck have fuel consumption displays that when compared vs consumption based on full to the brim tanks were within 1 mpg.
So I'm not saying there isn't a chance for error,just that I'm not seeing where.
 
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Either you're using imperial, or made a mistake in conversion.

Few things first:

2001 GMC Sierra C3 was equipped with the LQ4 (325hp/370TQ), which albeit rated differently, is the same engine that's under the hood of your friends 2500. This is not the "Cadillac version" of the 6.0L, which is the LQ9 that appeared in later models. For the sake of reference, 1999/2000 LQ4 had iron heads, and later models were rated higher (such as my '04).

225,000km is equivalent to 140,000 miles.

Back to the topic...

Conversion is as follows:

mpg (imperial) = 282.48 ÷ L/100 km
mpg (U.S.) = 235.21 ÷ L/100 km

I have no doubts about your ability to exceed EPA numbers to some degree, but at the reported 20 MPG, we're talking a 43% increase over those figures (11 city/14 highway). Additionally, you've stated that you're able to match EPA highway numbers while towing a trailer that weighs 3,500 pounds empty.




Correct. I've got that lovely LQ9 High output 6.0L in my 2006 Sierra Denali AWD. They put this engine only in Denali and Escalade of the era. It is rated 345hp vs the base 300hp of a regular 6.0. It also has 4.10 axles and runs hard and tows well.
 
Originally Posted By: Clevy
So I'm not saying there isn't a chance for error,just that I'm not seeing where.


No error. You're just using Miles/Imperial Gallon.

When the numbers provided are converted to US MPG, they make sense.
 
What is truly sad is that while a Dmax equipped 2500 pickup running around with, say, a 12K lb 5th wheel trailer gets 10-11 mpg, my commercial semi grossing 73K lb, as it did yesterday, can get 7.5 mpg, again, like it did yesterday. the folks at the pickup OEM's need to go have a conversation with the HD engine makers and find out what works, because what they are doing is pretty lame. I would expect, at a minimum, that a diesel pickup and trailer, grossing maybe 20K lb would get at least double the fuel economy of a 70' long tractor trailer setup grossing 73K riding on 5 axles and a significant higher number of tires that are larger. It is criminal that a modern diesel pickup isn't breaking 15-16 mpg when pulling.
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
What is truly sad is that while a Dmax equipped 2500 pickup running around with, say, a 12K lb 5th wheel trailer gets 10-11 mpg, my commercial semi grossing 73K lb, as it did yesterday, can get 7.5 mpg, again, like it did yesterday. the folks at the pickup OEM's need to go have a conversation with the HD engine makers and find out what works, because what they are doing is pretty lame. I would expect, at a minimum, that a diesel pickup and trailer, grossing maybe 20K lb would get at least double the fuel economy of a 70' long tractor trailer setup grossing 73K riding on 5 axles and a significant higher number of tires that are larger. It is criminal that a modern diesel pickup isn't breaking 15-16 mpg when pulling.


haha...I agree with TiredTrucker.

Consumer products and expectations versus actual industry expectations probably a driver.

Consumers just suck up the consumption when carrying more than a box of tissues, while the industrial users, like TT and his peers, have to cost every mile of a job.
 
The issue is that those driving the 2500 and up trucks expect them to drive like an unloaded gasser, even when towing. When you do that, fuel economy isn't the concern - the power delivery is. Thus the focus by manufacturers on that end of it and not the fuel economy aspect. With a fully loaded semi truck, both become a concern - power delivery and fuel economy, but the truck is expected to row through the gears to give the required mechanical advantage.

My '04 F150 delivers an average of 15 MPG, all conditions. Towing a 3500 lb trailer puts me around 13 MPG. Not a big difference.
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
70' long tractor trailer setup grossing 73K riding on 5 axles


Why are you only @ 73K GVW with that setup?
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
What is truly sad is that while a Dmax equipped 2500 pickup running around with, say, a 12K lb 5th wheel trailer gets 10-11 mpg, my commercial semi grossing 73K lb, as it did yesterday, can get 7.5 mpg, again, like it did yesterday. the folks at the pickup OEM's need to go have a conversation with the HD engine makers and find out what works, because what they are doing is pretty lame. I would expect, at a minimum, that a diesel pickup and trailer, grossing maybe 20K lb would get at least double the fuel economy of a 70' long tractor trailer setup grossing 73K riding on 5 axles and a significant higher number of tires that are larger. It is criminal that a modern diesel pickup isn't breaking 15-16 mpg when pulling.


Your Tractor doesn't have an "Emissions" engine....Correct? If you make a apples to apples comparison between a new emissions ladened Duramax against a new emissions ladened Detroit or Cummins that get 5.5 MPG, So the new light duty diesels do get twice the mileage.

My (pre-emissions) Duramax gets around 13-15 grossing 23K though I drive it easy when loaded.
 
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