Top electric vehicle registrations in Europe by company, April 2025

[alarmguy]

Spot on; Tesla stock is highly volatile; it's a freakin' roller coaster. But what its market cap strength offers is the ability to execute on strategies. VW has nearly 6x assets but its market cap is miniscule in comparison. VW is focusing on cost and other issues to improve their financial troubles. Their low market cap makes it challenging to execute on initiatives. And VW's operating margins are weak at best.

I think you place too much emphasis on market cap. It means nothing other than the faith of speculators that one day they will make enough money to lower the insane high P/E that is currently now at 187 vs the industry average of what? 8 maybe
Some notable names, Kia, Hyundai, GM, Volvo around a PE of 5, Toyota 7

When you have nothing to support a stock price, you can end up in big trouble, unless you are speculating.
A stock with a PE of 187 that only made money for a couple years and 100s% higher than the industry average is nothing more than speculation. I think you incorrectly present this market cap as giving the company unlimited financial resources available to them. I think this is not correct thinking. Big institutions will not feel the same as speculators.

https://companiesmarketcap.com/automakers/automakers-ranked-by-pe-ratio/#google_vignette

EIGHTY SEVEN PERCENT OF TESLA STOCK HOLDERS ARE RETAIL INVESTORS (not institutions)
Indication of the speculation not performance of a company. Only time will tell who is right.


----

Source
https://www.tickergate.com/stocks/tsla/ownership

 

[OVERKILL]

Not at all. The cost to convert "free" sunshine into something useful is less than the cost of energy from other sources. I have previously stated my position that "cost" in dollars is the most accurate metric of resource consumption.

It's not though, that's why PV panels are predominantly manufactured using mine-to-mouth coal in China, not PV. Offshore wind is more expensive than most other sources of energy except perhaps single cycle gas peakers. We build a lot of this capacity due to mandates, not because it is less expensive. In fact, Ontario had an entire plan predicated on this philosophy, which resulted in those sources being maligned in the province due to them driving up rates.

Once again you are misguided in saying we should go out of our way to use cow hides no matter the processing results in a product which costs more than the alternatives.

No, I'm saying we should use that resource. There's clearly a market for it, just as their is for alternatives, evidenced by people such as yourself and Torrid. Options are good.

If you like the product and are willing to pay more, then so be it.

Which I thought I made clear in my original post here? I appreciate that you clearly like to argue, as do I, so we can carry this on as long as you would like.

But you are as wrong as The EV Mandate to push your preferences on others just because something might "end up in landfills as waste."

I'm not pushing my preference, I'm vocalizing it and giving a reason as to why I feel that way. You are free to consume whatever it is you prefer, which I've stated several times now. You seem inclined to argue about this, which is fine, I'm game.

Is my understanding unwanted cow hides go to rendering plants. You know what a rendering plant is?

Yes, while I've seen first hand when I lived in New Brunswick, them being "disposed of" in other ways due to their low value and it being a matter of convenience. Obviously rendering is also preferable to "direct disposal".

 

[Torrid]

Tesla USA takes sales hit again for the month of May.
Austrailia had a good report, as well as Norway and some other countries.

I believe the Model Y was released in April. Im actually surprised how bad it is here.
I found a CNBC media report on Apple stock news using this source but I have never seen such a source and wonder how legitimate it is.
Then again if it wasnt you would think "X" would ban it, since it is on their platform.

Posted on "X"

View attachment 283115
Meanwhile it is not like the USA market isnt good as I posted previously.
"
GM sales were up 4% in 2024
GM fourth quarter was up 20% in 2024
GM first quarter was up 17% in 2025

Out in the news today, BYD for the first time outsold Tesla in Europe.

Reuters today = Tesla China made EVs sales fall 15% Y/Y in May

I wonder if self driving is going to bail them out of this mess or will it kick the can down the road enough to get some more desirable models on the market.

I don’t think FSD will be the thing to save Tesla. What I’ve found in online conversations, particularly Facebook is that the biggest proponents of FSD saving Tesla have never owned a Tesla, have no intention of owning a Tesla, and have only ridden in an FSD driven Tesla a couple of times.

While I think FSD can help push additional revenue from buyers, they’ve got to find a way to put more butts in seats to start with. I still don’t think the cars themselves are the problem. I think a lot of this is CEO inflicted. Beyond that Tesla can get more owners like me to pay for FSD, but I don’t think FSD is consistent enough for me to trust it. Not only that, but it just doesn’t work at all in fog, heavy rain, or snow that would obscures lane lines. Kind of hard to call it full automation when it works only 90% of the time. Now I know it still requires supervision for now, but we’re supposed to be only a month away from unsupervised in Austin. I don’t think that means they somehow figured out the rain and the fog issue. Not to mention the system relies so heavily on lane lines to drive.

 

[alarmguy]

I don’t think FSD will be the thing to save Tesla. What I’ve found in online conversations, particularly Facebook is that the biggest proponents of FSD saving Tesla have never owned a Tesla, have no intention of owning a Tesla, and have only ridden in an FSD driven Tesla a couple of times.

While I think FSD can help push additional revenue from buyers, they’ve got to find a way to put more butts in seats to start with. I still don’t think the cars themselves are the problem. I think a lot of this is CEO inflicted. Beyond that Tesla can get more owners like me to pay for FSD, but I don’t think FSD is consistent enough for me to trust it. Not only that, but it just doesn’t work at all in fog, heavy rain, or snow that would obscures lane lines. Kind of hard to call it full automation when it works only 90% of the time. Now I know it still requires supervision for now, but we’re supposed to be only a month away from unsupervised in Austin. I don’t think that means they somehow figured out the rain and the fog issue. Not to mention the system relies so heavily on lane lines to drive.

Good post, I dont really follow this much. I would be interested in simple FSD like interstates and highway which it seems everyone has now. (GM, Ford) I know they work and work well but I dont have it and if I thought about it before the last purchase I may have based on the experiences of nephews of mine. I can let go the steering wheel of my wife's new Equinox and the car wont let me run off the road or crash into the car in front or back up over someone but its not the optional true self driving (or lane keeping whatever you call it)

Since I dont follow much, what am I missing here with everyone touting Tesla FSD when Waymo has been doing it for a while now regarding driverless taxis? Is it Tesla FSD for the masses kind of thing?
(over and out for now, gotta cut the lawn before the rains come*L*)

 

[Torrid]

Good post, I dont really follow this much. I would be interested in simple FSD like interstates and highway which it seems everyone has now. (GM, Ford) I know they work and work well but I dont have it and if I thought about it before the last purchase I may have based on the experiences of nephews of mine. I can let go the steering wheel of my wife's new Equinox and the car wont let me run off the road or crash into the car in front or back up over someone but its not the optional true self driving (or lane keeping whatever you call it)

Since I dont follow much, what am I missing here with everyone touting Tesla FSD when Waymo has been doing it for a while now regarding driverless taxis? Is it Tesla FSD for the masses kind of thing?
(over and out for now, gotta cut the lawn before the rains come*L*)

Waymo has a lot more sensors and they also have a control center that monitors the cars. If something goes wrong, then they can take remote control of the vehicle. FSD’s goal is to be completely standalone.

What you’re describing with your Equinox is basically what standard Autopilot does that comes standard on all Teslas. It’ll steer to keep it in the lane, but it won’t switch lanes on its own or make turns with navigation.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I think you place too much emphasis on market cap. It means nothing other than the faith of speculators that one day they will make enough money to lower the insane high P/E that is currently now at 187 vs the industry average of what? 8 maybe
Some notable names, Kia, Hyundai, GM, Volvo around a PE of 5, Toyota 7

When you have nothing to support a stock price, you can end up in big trouble, unless you are speculating.
A stock with a PE of 187 that only made money for a couple years and 100s% higher than the industry average is nothing more than speculation. I think you incorrectly present this market cap as giving the company unlimited financial resources available to them. I think this is not correct thinking. Big institutions will not feel the same as speculators.

https://companiesmarketcap.com/automakers/automakers-ranked-by-pe-ratio/#google_vignette

EIGHTY SEVEN PERCENT OF TESLA STOCK HOLDERS ARE RETAIL INVESTORS (not institutions)
Indication of the speculation not performance of a company. Only time will tell who is right.

Source
https://www.tickergate.com/stocks/tsla/ownership

A strong market cap vs. your competition is leverage. Serious leverage.

 

[97prizm]

I think anyone that doesn’t see how polarizing it is to get involved with politics no matter which side is chosen is learning right now.

You don't have to look too far back when a female country music group criticized George Bush in his own state. They immediately had their records burned, concerts cancelled etc. It took years to undo the damage. Some say they still never got past the stigma.

 

[Torrid]

You don't have to look too far back when a female country music group criticized George Bush in his own state. They immediately had their records burned, concerts cancelled etc. It took years to undo the damage. Some say they still never got past the stigma.

I’m just surprised for how mad some get with me for just pointing it out. I’m not even making a statement about the person. It’s just known that it will get a reaction.

 

[Dave Hess]

Will Tesla even be relevant in 5 years ?

Lots of people fed up with the jerk and his childish behavior.

What would happen to Tesla if Elon had a massive heart attack and no longer around ?

 

[OVERKILL]

I’m just surprised for how mad some get with me for just pointing it out. I’m not even making a statement about the person. It’s just known that it will get a reaction.

Yeah, some people wear their politics like a badge of honor, so when Uncle Elon was perceived as an environmental virtuoso, even caving to PETA to drop leather in their cars, they were extremely supportive. When that changed, they felt duped and rage ensued, which we've seen manifest in the form of vandalism and the like.

Personally, I couldn't care less what Elon does. When my wife and I were looking at the Model Y Performance, Elon's actions played absolutely no role in the decision making, it was the lack of a HUD or any form of information in line-of-sight that bothered me, as well as the materials. If they had some Model Y Performance+ trim that had a HUD and nice leather, like Laguna or the Merino leather BMW uses, I'd have been much more into the vehicle. This was part of the reason I ended up greatly preferring the BMW i4 M50, it just felt like a more upscale car, though it has an admittedly more "cozy" interior.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Yeah, some people wear their politics like a badge of honor, so when Uncle Elon was perceived as an environmental virtuoso, even caving to PETA to drop leather in their cars, they were extremely supportive. When that changed, they felt duped and rage ensued, which we've seen manifest in the form of vandalism and the like.

Personally, I couldn't care less what Elon does. When my wife and I were looking at the Model Y Performance, Elon's actions played absolutely no role in the decision making, it was the lack of a HUD or any form of information in line-of-sight that bothered me, as well as the materials. If they had some Model Y Performance+ trim that had a HUD and nice leather, like Laguna or the Merino leather BMW uses, I'd have been much more into the vehicle. This was part of the reason I ended up greatly preferring the BMW i4 M50, it just felt like a more upscale car, though it has an admittedly more "cozy" interior.

Elon had zero to do with the actual purchases I made, with the exception of the jobs he helped create in the shuttered NUMMI location.
While I agree/disagree with Elon stuff, I find it somewhat silly people take it out on the Tesla products. And that's putting it nicely.

 

[alarmguy]

Elon had zero to do with the actual purchases I made, with the exception of the jobs he helped create in the shuttered NUMMI location.
While I agree/disagree with Elon stuff, I find it somewhat silly people take it out on the Tesla products. And that's putting it nicely.

Much of the public are simply and truly drones of the media. It's really scary. The majority have lost the ability or desire to critically think. Even in the voting both. I do fear for ourselves. The media runs the show and how people act and react.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Much of the public are simply and truly drones of the media. It's really scary. The majority have lost the ability or desire to critically think. Even in the voting both. I do fear for ourselves. The media runs the show and how people act and react.

It's up to each of us to determine the basis of our decisions.
Heck, Elon/Tesla get clicks, headlines, etc. People can't seem to get enough...

 

[OVERKILL]

It's up to each of us to determine the basis of our decisions.
Heck, Elon/Tesla get clicks, headlines, etc. People can't seem to get enough...

So did the Kardashians. What does that say about the population?

 

[JeffKeryk]

So did the Kardashians. What does that say about the population?

I've heard of them, but that's about it. Ditto the country guys with the beards. Are they the Kard-whatevers? Ditto the biggest loser. Or was it an apprentice? Dunno for sure...
Heard of them but never had the pleasure...

Judge Judy makes me qualified to be a lawyer, so there's that. Divorce court?

Kudos for your spelling expertise. Extra credit is in order; above my pay grade.

 

[alarmguy]

1 quarter does not make a trend. Just like the 1 month snapshot this thread is based on. It's a point in time.
If GM was up 17% QoQ, what was wrong with 2024Q4?

My career was in Predictive Analytics Modeling, which is a fancy term for forecasting.

Trends - I see in the news June 5th 2025 that "Tesla's largest EV plant in the world suffers eight straight month of declining demand as May sales sink 15%"
"

• Outbound volumes from Tesla’s GigaShangai factory, which includes exports, sank 15% in May. The drop follows similarly bleak figures out of most of Europe. Although Tesla is increasingly viewed as an AI company, roughly three-fourths of its revenue and gross profit come from selling cars.

With two-thirds of the second quarter now in the books, the chance Tesla’s EV sales could rebound from its terrible start to the year is swiftly waning."
Source -
https://fortune.com/2025/06/05/tesla-china-shanghai-car-sales-exports-monthly-decline/

Im wondering how they are going to turn this around. I suspect they will find a way. Not sure how, hopefully they know.

 

[97prizm]

Will Tesla even be relevant in 5 years ?

Lots of people fed up with the jerk and his childish behavior.

What would happen to Tesla if Elon had a massive heart attack and no longer around ?

Analysts recently predicted (Again who knows) if Musk left Tesla the stock would immediately tank 25%. Within 6 months they think it could be well higher than todays price. My big complaint is that Musk went after Reuters last year when Reuters had Tesla employees confirm with emails that indeed the model 2 was cancelled. Musk lashed out at Reuters saying that they were terrible and have no integrity. Roughly three months later musk publicly announced that "There's no reason to build a cheaper model as Tesla is super close to full autonomous driving. " Last year Musk claimed he "hated" subsidies and that they should go away. Now that they are, and California isn't allowed to regulate their own emissions hence a reduction in Carbon offset credits guess who's making a fuss?

 

[alarmguy]

Analysts recently predicted (Again who knows) if Musk left Tesla the stock would immediately tank 25%. Within 6 months they think it could be well higher than todays price. My big complaint is that Musk went after Reuters last year when Reuters had Tesla employees confirm with emails that indeed the model 2 was cancelled. Musk lashed out at Reuters saying that they were terrible and have no integrity. Roughly three months later musk publicly announced that "There's no reason to build a cheaper model as Tesla is super close to full autonomous driving. " Last year Musk claimed he "hated" subsidies and that they should go away. Now that they are, and California isn't allowed to regulate their own emissions hence a reduction in Carbon offset credits guess who's making a fuss?

My feeling is a stock trading at 175 times its earnings has no floor under it to support the price. It's only speculation from retail investors driving the price. The stock price is lower now than Nov 2021 and now selling at a higher multiple with declining market share, declining profit margins, declining sales, declining production.

Nothing wrong with it if one wants to speculate long term if they think they will get the P/E ratio down to 50 from 175 I guess.
It doesnt matter what analysts say because all analysts have differing opinions. Bottom line is institutional investors are staying clear of this stock by the boatload.
Unless you are a speculator, I have no clue why anyone would buy this stock. Bitcoin (or even XRP) has been FAR more dependable and profitable from Tesla's Nov 2021 high.
Of course the safest route was the S&P and Nasdaq indexes.

 

[97prizm]

I don’t think FSD will be the thing to save Tesla. What I’ve found in online conversations, particularly Facebook is that the biggest proponents of FSD saving Tesla have never owned a Tesla, have no intention of owning a Tesla, and have only ridden in an FSD driven Tesla a couple of times.

While I think FSD can help push additional revenue from buyers, they’ve got to find a way to put more butts in seats to start with. I still don’t think the cars themselves are the problem. I think a lot of this is CEO inflicted. Beyond that Tesla can get more owners like me to pay for FSD, but I don’t think FSD is consistent enough for me to trust it. Not only that, but it just doesn’t work at all in fog, heavy rain, or snow that would obscures lane lines. Kind of hard to call it full automation when it works only 90% of the time. Now I know it still requires supervision for now, but we’re supposed to be only a month away from unsupervised in Austin. I don’t think that means they somehow figured out the rain and the fog issue. Not to mention the system relies so heavily on lane lines to drive.

Look at the percent of new Tesla purchases that have fsd/Autopilot. Six years ago or so.1 in 3 opted to pay for it. In 2022 it was 1 in 7 or 14% opted to pay for it. Last year 2% opted to pay for it after trying it. Alot of teslas stock revolves around autonomous driving. The Washington Post is suing Tesla for not releasing automated driving (ADAS) accident rates as Tesla has been hiding the data which I think is Fraudulent.

 

[edyvw]

Much of the public are simply and truly drones of the media. It's really scary. The majority have lost the ability or desire to critically think. Even in the voting both. I do fear for ourselves. The media runs the show and how people act and react.

Elon is different. He directly injected himself in politics and became face of it. Then, he became face of cuts etc. History won’t be kind to him especially bcs. of slashing programs like PEPFAR which was huge (and that is understatement) achievement of Bush Jr administration.
Celebrities get involved in politics, do fundraising or say stuff on concerts and move on. He became face of it. So he pissed off mostly group that was supporting him (that supposed to stop when he went after those divers in Thailand, who didn’t want to stroke his ego) Now, he is pissing off people that he tried to make some inroads with.
It is impossible to explain here how politics works among people in Europe. They are far more engaged than people in the US, and generally far more educated not only about generally politics, but US politics than Americans. So, when he made that dumb decision to support AfD, he did it because he didn’t understand how hot of an issue AfD is in Germany. He looked at that from American, not German perspective. And Tesla paid the price.
He should just leave Tesla for Tesla’s sake. Space X does good job, so far, in keeping leash on him but who knows.
He should just quit media all together.