Tech data on their website appears to not have been updated in years. Some of the tech sheets say "Revised: June 2012".
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Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: finmile
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
The mfg does not claim approval/certification on their Evolution formula so not sure why you are implying they do? They claim to meet the requirements of. That is very different than claiming official approval/certification.
Because English is not my native language and I find it very confusing that the manufacturer plays with words like that.
It was quite clear for me that "Recommended for this and that" => It’s only a recommendation.
But obviously I got into the trap of "meets" vs. "approved". Sorry about that
Well that is no different than me being confused if the language used was your native one. The way things are said/written between languages really varies. We do not say things exactly the same. I took Spanish in High School for 3 years. I did great at 1st when it was just learning the words and the simple phrases. I struggled when we got more serious with it and I had to adjust how I thought and said things to conform to the way they do in Spanish.
The website in question is the one for the US market. It should not be confusing to people in this country which is their target viewer( they have global sites for those in other countries ). I don't see them playing with the wording at all. Very clear to me what they are saying.
I don't mean any offense by this either as I understand your issue. I am just pointing out that you are reading something written in English for those here in the US. Your confusion is understandable. It isn't for me when those who live here and speak English say it is though. I don't get that. THAT confuses me.
Have a good day( or as you would probably say Hyvää päivänjatkoa - hope I got that rght ).
Well, we had at least one English speaking American confused on that first page too
I think it depends on what somebody is looking for in the verbiage. Having it more direct, as we've already discussed, would make it more clear. Heck, we still have people showing up seemingly daily that are confused by "recommended for", which is pretty bloody self explanatory, LOL!
The stupidity of the average consumer is not the fault of the oil mfg nor does it mean they are playing tricky with the wording. All I am saying.
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: finmile
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
The mfg does not claim approval/certification on their Evolution formula so not sure why you are implying they do? They claim to meet the requirements of. That is very different than claiming official approval/certification.
Because English is not my native language and I find it very confusing that the manufacturer plays with words like that.
It was quite clear for me that "Recommended for this and that" => It’s only a recommendation.
But obviously I got into the trap of "meets" vs. "approved". Sorry about that
Well that is no different than me being confused if the language used was your native one. The way things are said/written between languages really varies. We do not say things exactly the same. I took Spanish in High School for 3 years. I did great at 1st when it was just learning the words and the simple phrases. I struggled when we got more serious with it and I had to adjust how I thought and said things to conform to the way they do in Spanish.
The website in question is the one for the US market. It should not be confusing to people in this country which is their target viewer( they have global sites for those in other countries ). I don't see them playing with the wording at all. Very clear to me what they are saying.
I don't mean any offense by this either as I understand your issue. I am just pointing out that you are reading something written in English for those here in the US. Your confusion is understandable. It isn't for me when those who live here and speak English say it is though. I don't get that. THAT confuses me.
Have a good day( or as you would probably say Hyvää päivänjatkoa - hope I got that rght ).
Well, we had at least one English speaking American confused on that first page too
I think it depends on what somebody is looking for in the verbiage. Having it more direct, as we've already discussed, would make it more clear. Heck, we still have people showing up seemingly daily that are confused by "recommended for", which is pretty bloody self explanatory, LOL!
The stupidity of the average consumer is not the fault of the oil mfg nor does it mean they are playing tricky with the wording. All I am saying.
Originally Posted By: finmile
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Have a good day( or as you would probably say Hyvää päivänjatkoa - hope I got that rght ).
Perfect! You used the Scandinavian letters also, åäö.
Kiitos samoin
Internet search is your friend!
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Have a good day( or as you would probably say Hyvää päivänjatkoa - hope I got that rght ).
Perfect! You used the Scandinavian letters also, åäö.
Kiitos samoin
Internet search is your friend!
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
The stupidity of the average consumer is not the fault of the oil mfg nor does it mean they are playing tricky with the wording. All I am saying.
True. My point is more that manufacturers should try to be as clear as possible with their language and I found the language in their information not as clear as it could have been
The stupidity of the average consumer needs to be factored in
The stupidity of the average consumer is not the fault of the oil mfg nor does it mean they are playing tricky with the wording. All I am saying.
True. My point is more that manufacturers should try to be as clear as possible with their language and I found the language in their information not as clear as it could have been
The stupidity of the average consumer needs to be factored in
Originally Posted By: finmile
So to conclude:
Only the Evolution OEM Series I and IV are APPROVED by MB 229.5x and BMW LL-xx (and also Porsche A40 for the 40 weight) => So any reasons why these would not be great oils if the price is right?
And what about the API and ACEA specifications: The advertisement says these specs are "exceeded". So, are they "approved/certified" or only "met"? Probably the latter one?
One additional point from me: Why do they say MB p229.3/p229.5. What's the p in there?
Actually, we only have the mfg claiming MB approval for one of the oils( Evolution OEM Series I as I recall ). It does not actually appear on the current list of approved oils on the MB website provided. Only one of them does that( IV I believe ). That doesn't mean it isn't approved though. It might not have been added yet. Best bet is to contact the mfg or MB and inquire if approval matters to you.
If the price is right and the oil meets your needs it is worth using. That goes for any oil however(IMO).
As far as API certification. Top 1 oils have many API certs. You can look here to see which ones...
API Certifications Top 1 Oils
So to conclude:
Only the Evolution OEM Series I and IV are APPROVED by MB 229.5x and BMW LL-xx (and also Porsche A40 for the 40 weight) => So any reasons why these would not be great oils if the price is right?
And what about the API and ACEA specifications: The advertisement says these specs are "exceeded". So, are they "approved/certified" or only "met"? Probably the latter one?
One additional point from me: Why do they say MB p229.3/p229.5. What's the p in there?
Actually, we only have the mfg claiming MB approval for one of the oils( Evolution OEM Series I as I recall ). It does not actually appear on the current list of approved oils on the MB website provided. Only one of them does that( IV I believe ). That doesn't mean it isn't approved though. It might not have been added yet. Best bet is to contact the mfg or MB and inquire if approval matters to you.
If the price is right and the oil meets your needs it is worth using. That goes for any oil however(IMO).
As far as API certification. Top 1 oils have many API certs. You can look here to see which ones...
API Certifications Top 1 Oils
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
The stupidity of the average consumer is not the fault of the oil mfg nor does it mean they are playing tricky with the wording. All I am saying.
True. My point is more that manufacturers should try to be as clear as possible with their language and I found the language in their information not as clear as it could have been
The stupidity of the average consumer needs to be factored in
I guess the person who wrote it felt it was clear. I agree. Not everyone thinks the same though. What can you do.
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
The stupidity of the average consumer is not the fault of the oil mfg nor does it mean they are playing tricky with the wording. All I am saying.
True. My point is more that manufacturers should try to be as clear as possible with their language and I found the language in their information not as clear as it could have been
The stupidity of the average consumer needs to be factored in
I guess the person who wrote it felt it was clear. I agree. Not everyone thinks the same though. What can you do.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Note that we've found another example of an oil claiming outdated ACEA specifications and listing the year of the specification in question.
It doesn't build confidence in their oil. The consumer asks why they don't bother getting up to date? For me, I tend to go with the big oil companies. I know its not heroic to avoid the little guy here, but I think of the army of scientists employed by SOPUS, XOM, & Castrol, and thats who I want formulating and quality controlling the oil I buy.
Not very nice of me, I know. I just want up to date specs and big labs, with racing experience , etc.
Note that we've found another example of an oil claiming outdated ACEA specifications and listing the year of the specification in question.
It doesn't build confidence in their oil. The consumer asks why they don't bother getting up to date? For me, I tend to go with the big oil companies. I know its not heroic to avoid the little guy here, but I think of the army of scientists employed by SOPUS, XOM, & Castrol, and thats who I want formulating and quality controlling the oil I buy.
Not very nice of me, I know. I just want up to date specs and big labs, with racing experience , etc.
I could care less about MB approval to be honest. It isn't anything I have to worry about now or ever as I wouldn't own a Benz on a bet.
However, rather than listen to some on here speculate and spout off without any real knowledge of the truth I have e-mailed the oil mfg to ask about the approval claim that is in question. I will post any answer I get.
Gee, what a novel idea. Actually asking someone from a mfg and giving them a chance to answer/explain when something is questionable vs. making up your own truth and posting it as fact.
I have no real dog in this fight so to speak. I just figure someone ought to try and get the question of this approval discrepancy answered. Can be any number of valid reasons why they claim it and the MB approval list doesn't show it. I am not going to just decide what the reason is on my own. I figure the company deserves a chance to explain.
However, rather than listen to some on here speculate and spout off without any real knowledge of the truth I have e-mailed the oil mfg to ask about the approval claim that is in question. I will post any answer I get.
Gee, what a novel idea. Actually asking someone from a mfg and giving them a chance to answer/explain when something is questionable vs. making up your own truth and posting it as fact.
I have no real dog in this fight so to speak. I just figure someone ought to try and get the question of this approval discrepancy answered. Can be any number of valid reasons why they claim it and the MB approval list doesn't show it. I am not going to just decide what the reason is on my own. I figure the company deserves a chance to explain.
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This is an interesting thread, indeed.
My mechanic has used a no name oil in my engine. MPM Premium Synthetic 5W-40, a company from the Netherlands:
http://www.mpmoil.nl/products/index.php?id=23&product=05000
And I've been happy with the oil as it lists many good specifications, including MB 229.3 and Porsche A40.
But now I did figure out that the oil cannot be found on the approval lists:
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.3_en.html
www.wrightune.co.uk/downloads/approved_oils.pdf
Is this a common thing for some smaller oil companies to only say that their oil meets requirements, but don't actually state that the oil is approved/certified?
In this case, have they tested the oils by themselves and found out that "yeah, it clearly meets/exceeds the requirements"? So basically you just need to rely on their statements?
I got an inspiration from NHHEMI and sent my own questions to MPM International Oil Company about the manufacturer approvals/certifications. Let's see if they answer to my email.
My mechanic has used a no name oil in my engine. MPM Premium Synthetic 5W-40, a company from the Netherlands:
http://www.mpmoil.nl/products/index.php?id=23&product=05000
And I've been happy with the oil as it lists many good specifications, including MB 229.3 and Porsche A40.
But now I did figure out that the oil cannot be found on the approval lists:
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.3_en.html
www.wrightune.co.uk/downloads/approved_oils.pdf
Is this a common thing for some smaller oil companies to only say that their oil meets requirements, but don't actually state that the oil is approved/certified?
In this case, have they tested the oils by themselves and found out that "yeah, it clearly meets/exceeds the requirements"? So basically you just need to rely on their statements?
I got an inspiration from NHHEMI and sent my own questions to MPM International Oil Company about the manufacturer approvals/certifications. Let's see if they answer to my email.
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Originally Posted By: ExMachina
It doesn't build confidence in their oil. The consumer asks why they don't bother getting up to date? For me, I tend to go with the big oil companies.
I know that it's actually a no-no, but I don't mind them listing the year if they're using an older set of sequences. At least it indicates some honesty.
It doesn't build confidence in their oil. The consumer asks why they don't bother getting up to date? For me, I tend to go with the big oil companies.
I know that it's actually a no-no, but I don't mind them listing the year if they're using an older set of sequences. At least it indicates some honesty.
Originally Posted By: finmile
Is this a common thing for some smaller oil companies to only say that their oil meets requirements, but don't actually state that the oil is approved/certified?
In this case, have they tested the oils by themselves and found out that "yeah, it clearly meets/exceeds the requirements"? So basically you just need to rely on their statements
Answering to myself...
It seems than even M1 0W-40 doesn't have approvals for all specifications. For example they state that "According to ExxonMobil, Mobil 1 0W40 is of the following quality: VW 503 01"
So, it seems that the consumer just have to trust the oil company, when the company states that an oil meets/exceeds xx specifications.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3006887
Is this a common thing for some smaller oil companies to only say that their oil meets requirements, but don't actually state that the oil is approved/certified?
In this case, have they tested the oils by themselves and found out that "yeah, it clearly meets/exceeds the requirements"? So basically you just need to rely on their statements
Answering to myself...
It seems than even M1 0W-40 doesn't have approvals for all specifications. For example they state that "According to ExxonMobil, Mobil 1 0W40 is of the following quality: VW 503 01"
So, it seems that the consumer just have to trust the oil company, when the company states that an oil meets/exceeds xx specifications.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3006887
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: finmile
Originally Posted By: finmile
Is this a common thing for some smaller oil companies to only say that their oil meets requirements, but don't actually state that the oil is approved/certified?
In this case, have they tested the oils by themselves and found out that "yeah, it clearly meets/exceeds the requirements"? So basically you just need to rely on their statements
Answering to myself...
It seems than even M1 0W-40 doesn't have approvals for all specifications. For example they state that "According to ExxonMobil, Mobil 1 0W40 is of the following quality: VW 503 01"
So, it seems that the consumer just have to trust the oil company, when the company states that an oil meets/exceeds xx specifications.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3006887
VW 503.01 is an old spec and is superseded, you can no longer get officially approved by VW for it anymore as it was replaced with 504.00.
Originally Posted By: VW
VW 503.01
This specification is specifically for Audi RS4, Audi TT, S3 and Audi A8 6.0 V12 models with outputs of more than 180bhp, running with variable service intervals (30,000km or 2 years). Now superseded by the VW 504.00 specification.
The language that defines that part of the PDS is very clear and the specs contained within are usually either superseded or obsolete (but still potentially relevant for somebody looking).
Originally Posted By: finmile
Is this a common thing for some smaller oil companies to only say that their oil meets requirements, but don't actually state that the oil is approved/certified?
In this case, have they tested the oils by themselves and found out that "yeah, it clearly meets/exceeds the requirements"? So basically you just need to rely on their statements
Answering to myself...
It seems than even M1 0W-40 doesn't have approvals for all specifications. For example they state that "According to ExxonMobil, Mobil 1 0W40 is of the following quality: VW 503 01"
So, it seems that the consumer just have to trust the oil company, when the company states that an oil meets/exceeds xx specifications.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3006887
VW 503.01 is an old spec and is superseded, you can no longer get officially approved by VW for it anymore as it was replaced with 504.00.
Originally Posted By: VW
VW 503.01
This specification is specifically for Audi RS4, Audi TT, S3 and Audi A8 6.0 V12 models with outputs of more than 180bhp, running with variable service intervals (30,000km or 2 years). Now superseded by the VW 504.00 specification.
The language that defines that part of the PDS is very clear and the specs contained within are usually either superseded or obsolete (but still potentially relevant for somebody looking).
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: finmile
It seems than even M1 0W-40 doesn't have approvals for all specifications. For example they state that "According to ExxonMobil, Mobil 1 0W40 is of the following quality: VW 503 01"
VW 503.01 is an old spec and is superseded, you can no longer get officially approved by VW for it anymore as it was replaced with 504.00.
Originally Posted By: VW
VW 503.01
This specification is specifically for Audi RS4, Audi TT, S3 and Audi A8 6.0 V12 models with outputs of more than 180bhp, running with variable service intervals (30,000km or 2 years). Now superseded by the VW 504.00 specification.
The language that defines that part of the PDS is very clear and the specs contained within are usually either superseded or obsolete (but still potentially relevant for somebody looking).
Ok, that figures.
I just don't have all the pieces of the puzzle gathered yet, so please bear with me. But I'm learning...
So, the Mobil 1 product line is what I had thought it is. An oil with the best/toughest manufacturer specification approvals, and it also meets the best specifications which are obsolete but relevant. You want the best oil? Pick Mobil 1. Check!
And if you want just a great oil? Then you can pick Top 1 Evolution OEM Series IV (except that it is a mid SAPS oil as MB 229.51 and BMW LL-04 indicates, so might not be the best choice in the USA, outside of California).
Any objections?
Originally Posted By: finmile
It seems than even M1 0W-40 doesn't have approvals for all specifications. For example they state that "According to ExxonMobil, Mobil 1 0W40 is of the following quality: VW 503 01"
VW 503.01 is an old spec and is superseded, you can no longer get officially approved by VW for it anymore as it was replaced with 504.00.
Originally Posted By: VW
VW 503.01
This specification is specifically for Audi RS4, Audi TT, S3 and Audi A8 6.0 V12 models with outputs of more than 180bhp, running with variable service intervals (30,000km or 2 years). Now superseded by the VW 504.00 specification.
The language that defines that part of the PDS is very clear and the specs contained within are usually either superseded or obsolete (but still potentially relevant for somebody looking).
Ok, that figures.
I just don't have all the pieces of the puzzle gathered yet, so please bear with me. But I'm learning...
So, the Mobil 1 product line is what I had thought it is. An oil with the best/toughest manufacturer specification approvals, and it also meets the best specifications which are obsolete but relevant. You want the best oil? Pick Mobil 1. Check!
And if you want just a great oil? Then you can pick Top 1 Evolution OEM Series IV (except that it is a mid SAPS oil as MB 229.51 and BMW LL-04 indicates, so might not be the best choice in the USA, outside of California).
Any objections?
Originally Posted By: finmile
And if you want just a great oil? Then you can pick Top 1 Evolution OEM Series IV (except that it is a mid SAPS oil as MB 229.51 and BMW LL-04 indicates, so might not be the best choice in the USA, outside of California).
Any objections?
How much does this Top 1 oil cost where you live? Just curious.
Over here in the US, this oil wouldn't even be a consideration for most people because M1 0w-40 is so inexpensive and so readily available. Unless of course you feel adventurous and/or want to be different.
And if you want just a great oil? Then you can pick Top 1 Evolution OEM Series IV (except that it is a mid SAPS oil as MB 229.51 and BMW LL-04 indicates, so might not be the best choice in the USA, outside of California).
Any objections?
How much does this Top 1 oil cost where you live? Just curious.
Over here in the US, this oil wouldn't even be a consideration for most people because M1 0w-40 is so inexpensive and so readily available. Unless of course you feel adventurous and/or want to be different.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: finmile
And if you want just a great oil? Then you can pick Top 1 Evolution OEM Series IV (except that it is a mid SAPS oil as MB 229.51 and BMW LL-04 indicates, so might not be the best choice in the USA, outside of California).
Any objections?
How much does this Top 1 oil cost where you live? Just curious.
Over here in the US, this oil wouldn't even be a consideration for most people because M1 0w-40 is so inexpensive and so readily available. Unless of course you feel adventurous and/or want to be different.
Well,
Actually I have never heard about this oil before, and I am quite sure it is not sold in Finland either
Just having a conversation that would this oil be good oil or not. And according to all the discussion above (the OEM Series IV is verified to be on the MB and Porsche approved lists) it should be a decent oil.
For you reference, the M1 0W-40 costs 39,90 eur in a 4 liter jug. And if get really lucky and can find it on sale (very rarely) it can be "as low" as 34,95 eur for 4 liters. Quite pricey I think. What's the normal price for you?
Originally Posted By: finmile
And if you want just a great oil? Then you can pick Top 1 Evolution OEM Series IV (except that it is a mid SAPS oil as MB 229.51 and BMW LL-04 indicates, so might not be the best choice in the USA, outside of California).
Any objections?
How much does this Top 1 oil cost where you live? Just curious.
Over here in the US, this oil wouldn't even be a consideration for most people because M1 0w-40 is so inexpensive and so readily available. Unless of course you feel adventurous and/or want to be different.
Well,
Actually I have never heard about this oil before, and I am quite sure it is not sold in Finland either
Just having a conversation that would this oil be good oil or not. And according to all the discussion above (the OEM Series IV is verified to be on the MB and Porsche approved lists) it should be a decent oil.
For you reference, the M1 0W-40 costs 39,90 eur in a 4 liter jug. And if get really lucky and can find it on sale (very rarely) it can be "as low" as 34,95 eur for 4 liters. Quite pricey I think. What's the normal price for you?
Originally Posted By: finmile
For you reference, the M1 0W-40 costs 39,90 eur in a 4 liter jug. And if get really lucky and can find it on sale (very rarely) it can be "as low" as 34,95 eur for 4 liters. Quite pricey I think. What's the normal price for you?
Right now regular price is about $24 for 5 quarts (4.73 liters). Sometimes it goes on sale and often times there are additional coupons/rebates available, so it can be had for even less. Yes, we are spoiled.
The point I was trying to make is that there are oils out there that look pretty decent on paper, but most people will still not buy them because of pricing or availability issues.
For you reference, the M1 0W-40 costs 39,90 eur in a 4 liter jug. And if get really lucky and can find it on sale (very rarely) it can be "as low" as 34,95 eur for 4 liters. Quite pricey I think. What's the normal price for you?
Right now regular price is about $24 for 5 quarts (4.73 liters). Sometimes it goes on sale and often times there are additional coupons/rebates available, so it can be had for even less. Yes, we are spoiled.
The point I was trying to make is that there are oils out there that look pretty decent on paper, but most people will still not buy them because of pricing or availability issues.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Right now regular price is about $24 for 5 quarts (4.73 liters). Sometimes it goes on sale and often times there are additional coupons/rebates available, so it can be had for even less. Yes, we are spoiled.
The point I was trying to make is that there are oils out there that look pretty decent on paper, but most people will still not buy them because of pricing or availability issues.
Here's what we get for that price. The Teboil brand is well known here and trusted. This oil is ok for up to 15,000 km OCI. Not a bad oil, but nothing special either.
http://www.motonet.fi/fi/tuote/592004/Teboil-Gold-S-5W-40-4l
As oil is more pricey here on the old continent, one must look for other choices also. And stretch the OCI.
But I'm not complaining. We have other things that are great. Good health care and free education by the government, no poisonous animals except one snake species (and it can be lethal only for kids). The land of Santa Claus (yes yes, you were wrong. He's not from the North Pole. He's from Finland, didn't you know?)
Search for "Finnish Santa Claus":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus
But, yes. I would consider to use Top 1 OEM IV oil if it was sold here and for low price.
Right now regular price is about $24 for 5 quarts (4.73 liters). Sometimes it goes on sale and often times there are additional coupons/rebates available, so it can be had for even less. Yes, we are spoiled.
The point I was trying to make is that there are oils out there that look pretty decent on paper, but most people will still not buy them because of pricing or availability issues.
Here's what we get for that price. The Teboil brand is well known here and trusted. This oil is ok for up to 15,000 km OCI. Not a bad oil, but nothing special either.
http://www.motonet.fi/fi/tuote/592004/Teboil-Gold-S-5W-40-4l
As oil is more pricey here on the old continent, one must look for other choices also. And stretch the OCI.
But I'm not complaining. We have other things that are great. Good health care and free education by the government, no poisonous animals except one snake species (and it can be lethal only for kids). The land of Santa Claus (yes yes, you were wrong. He's not from the North Pole. He's from Finland, didn't you know?)
Search for "Finnish Santa Claus":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus
But, yes. I would consider to use Top 1 OEM IV oil if it was sold here and for low price.
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