Toilet Wax Rings ?
- Thread starter Merkava_4
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I wouldn't use anything other than Sani-seal.
Some newer toilets outperform old ones by flushing much faster. If the trapway has a sharp bend where it meets the sewer flange, it will blow out wax seals.
I experienced this whan installing a Mansfield Cascade at my mom's house.
Some newer toilets outperform old ones by flushing much faster. If the trapway has a sharp bend where it meets the sewer flange, it will blow out wax seals.
I experienced this whan installing a Mansfield Cascade at my mom's house.
I didn't have too much of a problem (new toilet install, plus repair of the floor in the bathroom where there was an actual hole in the floor about a foot from the commode).
Cast Iron sewer pipe, and I was changing the installed height of the toilet, so I rented the chain tool from Home Depot, cut it cleanly and used the rubber ring sold for this purpose and retrofitted plastic pipe and flange, used the wax seal (the easiest part of the job) after fixing the floor and installing new tile over the whole floor, which wasn't much since it is a bathroom, after all.
It was easy; took less than one day overall, and this was a first time operation for me; I had installed new construction toilets but never any repair or retrofit work, like on this ancient (house built in 1922) sewer pipe.
if you are at all handy it won't be something to worry about. Go ahead and do it yourself.
Cast Iron sewer pipe, and I was changing the installed height of the toilet, so I rented the chain tool from Home Depot, cut it cleanly and used the rubber ring sold for this purpose and retrofitted plastic pipe and flange, used the wax seal (the easiest part of the job) after fixing the floor and installing new tile over the whole floor, which wasn't much since it is a bathroom, after all.
It was easy; took less than one day overall, and this was a first time operation for me; I had installed new construction toilets but never any repair or retrofit work, like on this ancient (house built in 1922) sewer pipe.
if you are at all handy it won't be something to worry about. Go ahead and do it yourself.
DO not seal around the base of the toilet with any caulk of anything else. If the wax ring leaks you want to know about it. If the base is sealed to the floor the leaking water will remain under the toilet and rot out the floor.
Originally Posted By: ram_man
Biggest thing is use a 1/4 ratchet if you can and tighten the bolts up equally and carefully don't crank it down.
+1 ... the hold down bolts can't take much stress and can easily be snapped off. Just snug is all they need to be.
Biggest thing is use a 1/4 ratchet if you can and tighten the bolts up equally and carefully don't crank it down.
+1 ... the hold down bolts can't take much stress and can easily be snapped off. Just snug is all they need to be.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
To tell you the truth, I'm scared to death of it.
For what possible reason would you be scared of replacing a wax ring on a toilet? It's about as simple a job as possible. Even if there is damage to the floor, simply cut it out and replace the damaged flooring.
Buck up, quit wringing your hands over something so simple, and dig in and do it. You claim that you have loads of high quality tools-now you have a chance to actually use them rather than just talking about them.
To tell you the truth, I'm scared to death of it.
For what possible reason would you be scared of replacing a wax ring on a toilet? It's about as simple a job as possible. Even if there is damage to the floor, simply cut it out and replace the damaged flooring.
Buck up, quit wringing your hands over something so simple, and dig in and do it. You claim that you have loads of high quality tools-now you have a chance to actually use them rather than just talking about them.
Originally Posted By: Reggaemon
DO not seal around the base of the toilet with any caulk of anything else. If the wax ring leaks you want to know about it. If the base is sealed to the floor the leaking water will remain under the toilet and rot out the floor.
Code says the base should be sealed.
Now if the OP wants to do it in his house, that's up to him.
DO not seal around the base of the toilet with any caulk of anything else. If the wax ring leaks you want to know about it. If the base is sealed to the floor the leaking water will remain under the toilet and rot out the floor.
Code says the base should be sealed.
Now if the OP wants to do it in his house, that's up to him.
Another vote for Sani Seal. I don't ever plan on using a wax ring again. The Sani Seal is reusable and there's no wax to clean up.
You can get them at HD and other places.
As others have mentioned, the real issue is the sewer backing up. No toilet ring will fix that.
You can get them at HD and other places.
As others have mentioned, the real issue is the sewer backing up. No toilet ring will fix that.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
OK, tell me whatever you can about them. I need to replace the wax ring in the toilet located in the master bedroom. I've never done one before. To tell you the truth, I'm scared to death of it. I don't know what I'm gonna find when I lift that toilet up off the floor. Every time the main sewer line clogs up, the water backs up and comes out around the base of the toilet. If the sewer line is clear, the toilet will flush without leaking. I know I got a bad sewer line, but I want to get that one toilet squared away before I replace the sewer line.
I cant imagine living on a slab or a design where a line backup would cause dirty water to come back out the toilet interface versus someplace more benign. I agree that it is scary if you have had lots of sewer line backups (question then is why? That shouldn't happen but once in a very long while).
But while the concept of handling the wax ring might be gross, its probably not that dirty/fouled, and anything on it is probably yours anyway. Just wear some gloves, remove the toilet, fix it, and assess the floor situation. Fix as needed.
What is more dubious to me is that the toilet fill line will shut off properly. Depending upon the mineral content in the water and the utilization, it may not shut off fully, and that's a bigger pain to fix. A wax ring is nothing really...
OK, tell me whatever you can about them. I need to replace the wax ring in the toilet located in the master bedroom. I've never done one before. To tell you the truth, I'm scared to death of it. I don't know what I'm gonna find when I lift that toilet up off the floor. Every time the main sewer line clogs up, the water backs up and comes out around the base of the toilet. If the sewer line is clear, the toilet will flush without leaking. I know I got a bad sewer line, but I want to get that one toilet squared away before I replace the sewer line.
I cant imagine living on a slab or a design where a line backup would cause dirty water to come back out the toilet interface versus someplace more benign. I agree that it is scary if you have had lots of sewer line backups (question then is why? That shouldn't happen but once in a very long while).
But while the concept of handling the wax ring might be gross, its probably not that dirty/fouled, and anything on it is probably yours anyway. Just wear some gloves, remove the toilet, fix it, and assess the floor situation. Fix as needed.
What is more dubious to me is that the toilet fill line will shut off properly. Depending upon the mineral content in the water and the utilization, it may not shut off fully, and that's a bigger pain to fix. A wax ring is nothing really...
Buy real BRASS bolts, not the usual cheap brass plated steel. The brass ones will last forever and come apart later if you ever need to remove or replace the toilet.
You guys are fantastic! Thank you all for your help. There's a lot of useful tips that I can use.
Just to answer a few questions:
1. The toilet is stationary and not rocking.
2. There's a possibility that the closet flange is cast iron. A potential disaster there.
3. The sewer line is the original clay sewer line that came with the house when it was built in 1961. A clean-out T has since been added and spliced in, but the rest of the line is original. There is a very large ash tree in the front yard that has penetrated the line for a source of water. The plumbers are very skilled at removing the roots from the line, but they say the line needs to be replaced because it is broken in several sections. There's also the possibility that the clean-out T has been compromised from the tree changing the elevation of the underground area. A tape measure ran down the clean-out T reveals that the depth of the sewer line is 5 feet down. I'm not sure which path the line takes between the street and the house either. All I know is where the line intersects with the clean-out T next to the tree. If I was to dig a trench from the street to the house, it would be labor intensive for sure.
Just to answer a few questions:
1. The toilet is stationary and not rocking.
2. There's a possibility that the closet flange is cast iron. A potential disaster there.
3. The sewer line is the original clay sewer line that came with the house when it was built in 1961. A clean-out T has since been added and spliced in, but the rest of the line is original. There is a very large ash tree in the front yard that has penetrated the line for a source of water. The plumbers are very skilled at removing the roots from the line, but they say the line needs to be replaced because it is broken in several sections. There's also the possibility that the clean-out T has been compromised from the tree changing the elevation of the underground area. A tape measure ran down the clean-out T reveals that the depth of the sewer line is 5 feet down. I'm not sure which path the line takes between the street and the house either. All I know is where the line intersects with the clean-out T next to the tree. If I was to dig a trench from the street to the house, it would be labor intensive for sure.
Replacing a broken cast iron closet flange in smoky and messy but not very hard with the right tools. My cast iron flange was destroyed by years of leaks and corrosion, wood floor was rotted out. I used a Harbor Freight angle grinder and metal cutting wheels to cutoff the old flange. Use full wraparound plastic safety GOGGLES to protect your eyes from showers of sparks, glasses will not work. Repair the wood floor, Youtube will show you how. Replace the original flange with a drop in PVC flange. The new flange drops in and secures with a few drywall screws into the wood floor. Use solid brass toilet bolts and your choice of wax or rubber toilet seal ( rubber is cleaner but more expensive ) Clean up all the dust from the cutoff wheel and pop a cold one 
Originally Posted By: Reggaemon
DO not seal around the base of the toilet with any caulk of anything else. If the wax ring leaks you want to know about it. If the base is sealed to the floor the leaking water will remain under the toilet and rot out the floor.
+5
I have seen this many times, people seal the toilet to "hide" a leaking flange.
Personally, when I fit a new wax seal, I like to fit the seal to the floor flange first, then lower the toilet over the seal using the flange bolts as a guide to get it centered.
DO not seal around the base of the toilet with any caulk of anything else. If the wax ring leaks you want to know about it. If the base is sealed to the floor the leaking water will remain under the toilet and rot out the floor.
+5
I have seen this many times, people seal the toilet to "hide" a leaking flange.
Personally, when I fit a new wax seal, I like to fit the seal to the floor flange first, then lower the toilet over the seal using the flange bolts as a guide to get it centered.
Originally Posted By: expat
Originally Posted By: Reggaemon
DO not seal around the base of the toilet with any caulk of anything else. If the wax ring leaks you want to know about it. If the base is sealed to the floor the leaking water will remain under the toilet and rot out the floor.
+5
I have seen this many times, people seal the toilet to "hide" a leaking flange.
Personally, when I fit a new wax seal, I like to fit the seal to the floor flange first, then lower the toilet over the seal using the flange bolts as a guide to get it centered.
+6 Also I like to "butter" around any gap/crack
Originally Posted By: Reggaemon
DO not seal around the base of the toilet with any caulk of anything else. If the wax ring leaks you want to know about it. If the base is sealed to the floor the leaking water will remain under the toilet and rot out the floor.
+5
I have seen this many times, people seal the toilet to "hide" a leaking flange.
Personally, when I fit a new wax seal, I like to fit the seal to the floor flange first, then lower the toilet over the seal using the flange bolts as a guide to get it centered.
+6 Also I like to "butter" around any gap/crack
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Quote:
I wouldn't use anything other than Sani-seal.
Even *I* was able to replace mine with Sani-seal (the green one, right?)
If I could do it, you will be able to do it! Trust me on this one.
Yes, the Sani-Seal is the green one.
Quote:
I wouldn't use anything other than Sani-seal.
Even *I* was able to replace mine with Sani-seal (the green one, right?)
If I could do it, you will be able to do it! Trust me on this one.
Yes, the Sani-Seal is the green one.
OK Here's a real service tip. Build a square box of 2x4's on edge to set the toilet on when you pull it. Otherwise you'll have to lay it on its side.
Sort of along the same line as the Sani-Seal, I like Danco Perfect Seal rings. The Danco has the option of changing the gasket height depending if the closet flange was installed level with the finished floor or above it.
Just did the second toilet with Sani-seal; this time I had help from my wife. This one was little more difficult because I had to re-use the incoming hard water line as the plumbings stores were closed for the day. That meant having to match the two studs and the water pipe before putting the toilet down. I did this with the tank intact as I did not want to risk another leak at the based of the tank by splitting them apart.
The third toilet was done in the past by a plumber with standard wax ring replacement. So for another decade it should be good but if it goes, another Sani-seal will go in there.
As far as Sani-seal is concerned, I am assuming it should have indefinite life. Am I wrong?
The third toilet was done in the past by a plumber with standard wax ring replacement. So for another decade it should be good but if it goes, another Sani-seal will go in there.
As far as Sani-seal is concerned, I am assuming it should have indefinite life. Am I wrong?
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