Toilet parts - preventative maintenance?

[y_p_w]

Well - more like preventative maintenance was delayed.

I'm housesitting for my folks who are on vacation and I flushed a toilet - a Kohler Rialto one-piece from the mid-90s. Various parts have been replaced, and I actually replaced the fill valve where I thought the best option was a genuine Kohler part, which was really a Fluidmaster 747 low-flow. Also the unique shark-fin flapper seems to be hardening as it's clearly yellowing although still sealing properly. But then I flushed it and it wouldn't stop. Tried adjusting the screw and pulled the float all the way to the top and it wouldn't work.

But I had a heck of a time removing it and tracking down the tools I needed at my parents' home. I pulled out the hose and that seemed to be overtightened. And the gasket is crumbling. I figure these things are cheap and should be replaced every 5 years, but this looks to be 15-20 years old. I think I have one at home that Amazon let me keep when I ordered it and it was the wrong size (too small).

I'm about ready to head to HD and get the replacement parts. Nothing in Fluidmaster's standard fill valve lineup will work as this thing is tiny. I think a Korky QuietFill (Platinum?) will work as I helped my dad install one in an identical toilet, although they eventually scrapped that in favor of a Kohler toilet with a tower style valve. And it needs a new flapper. Not sure what to get. I'm sure that Lavelle/Korky makes it for Kohler. They used to cobranded them and I remember getting them for less than $3 at HD. Now one can find a Korky one that just says "fits" as well as some specific models that don't use the same design but fit that unique width flush valve.

 

[Hall]

Wow, that's a lot..... All I can suggest is get the exact model # of the tank before you go to the store. Once there, see what aftermarket parts are available for that model.

 

[oldhp]

I buy nothing but FluidMaster. I keep 1 extra diaphragm for when the water flow slows or it sticks just one time. I replace and go buy another one and write the date on it. That way I know when I changed it. We have great water here so the diaphragm's last about 2yrs and the flapper's last about 4-5yrs.
If you take a quarter and slide it into the pointy part of the the tank flapper it's just enough weight to help keep it sealed against the tank outlet. The quarter has been in use since 1989 when we moved in the house. It helps out sealing it in the long run.

 

[97prizm]

Well - more like preventative maintenance was delayed.

I'm housesitting for my folks who are on vacation and I flushed a toilet - a Kohler Rialto one-piece from the mid-90s. Various parts have been replaced, and I actually replaced the fill valve where I thought the best option was a genuine Kohler part, which was really a Fluidmaster 747 low-flow. Also the unique shark-fin flapper seems to be hardening as it's clearly yellowing although still sealing properly. But then I flushed it and it wouldn't stop. Tried adjusting the screw and pulled the float all the way to the top and it wouldn't work.

But I had a heck of a time removing it and tracking down the tools I needed at my parents' home. I pulled out the hose and that seemed to be overtightened. And the gasket is crumbling. I figure these things are cheap and should be replaced every 5 years, but this looks to be 15-20 years old. I think I have one at home that Amazon let me keep when I ordered it and it was the wrong size (too small).

I'm about ready to head to HD and get the replacement parts. Nothing in Fluidmaster's standard fill valve lineup will work as this thing is tiny. I think a Korky QuietFill (Platinum?) will work as I helped my dad install one in an identical toilet, although they eventually scrapped that in favor of a Kohler toilet with a tower style valve. And it needs a new flapper. Not sure what to get. I'm sure that Lavelle/Korky makes it for Kohler. They used to cobranded them and I remember getting them for less than $3 at HD. Now one can find a Korky one that just says "fits" as well as some specific models that don't use the same design but fit that unique width flush valve.

There usually are two different sizes of flapper for the fill tank. Most have "ears" that go up an over the notches. Most brands seem to work

 

[PontiacHO]

City-municipal water (chlorine) and/or those toilet bowl cleaners that hang in the tank shortens the life of toilet parts. Well water not as bad.

 

[y_p_w]

There usually are two different sizes of flapper for the fill tank. Most have "ears" that go up an over the notches. Most brands seem to work

Not any more. I know the standard size was 2" for years, but there are all sorts of different sizes and some systems don't even use flappers, like tower valves. My house has a couple of 3" valves where the OEM was rigid plastic with a silicone seal. Some of the newer ones are 4".

But I knew exactly what to get. This one is unique and something that Lavelle originally made for Kohler. I'm not sure of the exact size of the valve, but it's definitely wider than 2" and narrower than 3". When it leaked, my dad went out and got a standard 2" flapper and it didn't fit on the mount since it was too narrow.

 

[Carmudgeon]

I rebuilt an older San Rapheal a couple years ago, using Kohler's kit. New fill valve with metal parts to address the original's weaknesses (notably, the bridge/pivot point of the float lever), and an updated flush valve with the current flapper design.

Best thing I ever did, after a series of one issue after another.

The short fill valves, with the oddball rim supply setup made it difficult to find an off-the-shelf solution that didn't involve some jury rigging, and I didn't have the patience for that.

 

[RaymondP]

Amazed at the complexity of some of the guts inside the tanks of older toilets. Replaced entire setup whenever they fail with simpler design.

 

[y_p_w]

Amazed at the complexity of some of the guts inside the tanks of older toilets. Replaced entire setup whenever they fail with simpler design.

Replacing the flapper is easy. Other than the shape, it’s pretty simple. The fill valve is another matter since the tank is so short. Makes for a lousy flush too. The original part was discontinued, but Kohler spec’ed a Fluidmaster PRO747 fill valve (with riser) when I bought an OEM Kohler kit to fix it.

They still make it, although I think the shark fin flapper is no longer used.

 

[y_p_w]

I took apart the fill valve. It uses one of these.

242 Toilet Replacement Seal

Quickly fix your 400A fill valve without purchasing a new valve. Replaces the seal on all 200, 400 and 747 model fill valves including the 703A fill valve.

www.fluidmaster.com

This is the same seal used on a Fluidmaster 400A or its many derivatives, although it’s in a way different position. The one I took out is slightly pitted, but also the rubber is degrading. I can see why it stopped working. I’ve heard that sometimes they just need to be cleaned if there are mineral deposits. I’m getting a Korky QuietFill Platinum anyways. This thing was always noisy and kind of slow.

I rather like the PerforMax version of the 400A, but Fluidmaster doesn’t make a short version of it.

 

[y_p_w]

I got the Korky QuietFill Platinum and installed it, although I’m still waiting on a new flapper and a new supply hose. The current ones don’t leak yet. I’ll probably just stash away the flapper as a spare since the current one still works even if it’s discolored. I also ordered a couple of the 242 seals. I’ll fix the old one and keep it for backup. I’ve got 400A toilets in my house, and maybe if my parents need it I can fix their other toilets that use variations on the 400A.

Kohler has this weird position for the fill valve opening really tight in the corner of a Rialto. They probably spec the Fluidmaster 747 with riser since the riser doesn’t take up much horizontal space. There are a couple versions of the riser - either plastic or copper. The copper version is maybe $40-50. The photo shows a riser that looks like it needs to be bent into shape.

The QuietFill is really tight against the corner where the head is touching the side of the tank. It might also not be perfectly vertical, but it’s not leaking. The adjustment is kind of a pain sometimes since it doesn’t remain firmly locked in place without the tamper resistant clip. But it can be height adjusted in situ, although there’s no fine adjustment screw for a shutoff control arm like with Fluidmaster valves. And it fills a lot faster than the 747. Also a bit quieter.

 

[Hall]

Speaking of "preventative maintenance", anyone that's familiar with Mansfield toilets that has hard water might like this one. With hard water, you're probably used to replacing the flush valve seal every year or maybe 2 but I have also replaced the flush valve in the past because it still "leaked" with the new seal. This time, when I removed it, I noticed that the seating ring (that contacts the seal) was coated in mineral build-up. I used some citric acid cleaner and a greenie pad to scrub it clean/smooth, replaced it, and it seems to work.