Today's Supercharging Session

[IndyIan]

I don't think that reflects the total cost, because he had charged it to 80% before leaving, and this 26.21 kWh was just a "top-up". According to Edmunds the 2024 Model 3 Performance averages 34.4 kWh/100 miles, so overall consumption for 200 miles would have been 68.8 kWh, which, at $0.48/kWh would have cost $33.00.

I figure $0.48/kwh into the Model 3, is about the same cost per mile as $4/gal gas into a 30mpg vehicle. So not terrible math for the odd trip, if you can charge at home most of the time for a lot less.
Lots of time of use power gets down to 4-5-6 cents per kwh, so then EV "fuel" gets well below even the cheapest gas in recent times.
I am thinking more about moving one car to an EV or PHEV and switch to a TOU power pricing plan.

 

[OVERKILL]

That assumes the trip was all on a Supercharger.

Yes, because Astro and I were discussing the Supercharger rate.

 

[OVERKILL]

I figure $0.48/kwh into the Model 3, is about the same cost per mile as $4/gal gas into a 30mpg vehicle. So not terrible math for the odd trip, if you can charge at home most of the time for a lot less.
Lots of time of use power gets down to 4-5-6 cents per kwh, so then EV "fuel" gets well below even the cheapest gas in recent times.
I am thinking more about moving one car to an EV or PHEV and switch to a TOU power pricing plan.

Yes, exactly. Charging here in Ontario, if you signed up for the ultra-low overnight rate, the cost for those 68.8 kWh would be like $2.61.

 

[Brons2]

Dang. .48 per kW should be torches and pitchforks prices. Why do people stand for that?

It's .53 at the closest Electrify America to my house, in a place where the meter electricity is around .10 per KWH. The equipment to set up these charging stations is expensive, I'm sure, but 5x times the input rate is questionable.

OTOH, I've paid as little as .24 on Tesla with a membership, which is the price you would get if you had a Tesla, and never higher than .35 with the membership. Without the membership, I've paid as much as .42 at the airport in Austin.

Ionna and Walmart seem be pursing more of an "everyday low prices" approach with prices in the mid-30s with no memberships. There are not many of these in Central Texas though so they're of limited utility at the moment, but expanding quickly. For now Tesla is my go-to for charging on the road.

My opinion is that stations should be required to publicly display their per KWH charging rates, same as gas stations must display price per gallon.

 

[Brons2]

I can't imagine having to refuel for a 200 mile round trip, especially when I'd have to leave my car and occupy myself somewhere else while it recharges. I make frequent trips up your way, a 330 mile round trip, on the same day, a "flip turn" as I call it. Having to refuel for my 330 mile drive would be unacceptable for me.

Scott

What did you do back in the day when gas vehicles didn't have this kind of range?

I remember the 70s and 80s with a 10mpg station wagon. Speed limit was 55 to boot. A 600 mile drive took 12 hours with 3-4 gas stops. And vehicles with carburetors and points ignitions were not as reliable unless you stayed on top of the maintenance. And even then, things like vapor lock happened, and once you vapor locked, you were stuck until the engine cooled off.

I can understand the millennials and younger not ever knowing these experiences, but old guys making comments about the range performance of electric cars strikes me as odd sometimes. I guess they forgot what travel was like when they were young.

 

[UncleDave]

Fair enough, but I don't have the electrical service at our house to charge an EV, at least not quickly.

Sue and I like taking road trips. Often times long ones. The convenience and speed of a gasoline fill up is paramount to us.

Our oldest son got promoted to a position where he was provided a vehicle to do his work, a Ford Lightning of all things. But, given the distances he has to travel, usually urgently and never to the same places, he exchanged it for a gasoline powered Camry. He told me range anxiety was a real thing in his situation.

Scott

Also fair answer.

I like road trips as well and probably drive close to 20K a year. and prefer to drive vs fly on my regular 1K round trip from Northern to Southern Ca.

Today's EV's do a great job with overall trip time, often equaling ICE the way most people travel. Most poeple dont travel the way they claim, but thats a diff thread. When you add in the pre and post trip fuel up it's often a draw.
When comparing local driving the EV just crushes ICE.

Traveling with my wife the trip time between ICE and EV is identical on the 450 mile each way trip.
For me the EV adds 1 stop each way but it recovers this at the origination and destination.

Range anxiety is a thing. I sure had it at first but I started driving ev's 15 years ago.
Now the anxiety is getting in a car thats empty when I need to go somewhere- surprise! "Sorry I "forgot" to fill the car"
Certain household members are really bad at this. If I had an Ev or even two they'd bascially be full every day off a single 50 amp connector.

Interestingly, my contractor wouldnt trade his Lighting for any vehicle, and after watching him work I understand why.
It has way more secure space than a half ton, it has way more power available to charge batteries all but one other half ton
He leaves the AC on all day long so when he needs to take call, grab lunch or a cool drink he just jumps in.
It can tow his John Deer 2025 whoever he needs it locally and it starts every day full.

 

[slo town]

What did you do back in the day when gas vehicles didn't have this kind of range?

I remember the 70s and 80s with a 10mpg station wagon. Speed limit was 55 to boot. A 600 mile drive took 12 hours with 3-4 gas stops. And vehicles with carburetors and points ignitions were not as reliable unless you stayed on top of the maintenance. And even then, things like vapor lock happened, and once you vapor locked, you were stuck until the engine cooled off.

I can understand the millennials and younger not ever knowing these experiences, but old guys making comments about the range performance of electric cars strikes me as odd sometimes. I guess they forgot what travel was like when they were young.

Last time I had a 200 mile range in a car was probably one of my Austin Healey 3000s. I'd expect with all the world's progress over the last 60 years, the greatest new automotive invention would have a range greater than a 60 year old English vehicle. Pictured is my triple-carbed 1962 BT7. I also had a 1963 BJ7.

Scott

 

[slo town]

I like road trips as well and probably drive close to 20K a year. and prefer to drive vs fly on my regular 1K round trip from Northern to Southern Ca.

Most poeple dont travel the way they claim, but thats a diff thread.

Sue and still prefer driving to SoCal even though we can get easy flights out of SBP. In fact, we're going to make a one or two night visit to LA and see the Peterson Automotive Museum. Great wife, eh?

As an aside, Sue and I watched the classic movie "Duel" the other night. We're going to explore the back roads where that was filmed. We plan on having dinner at the place (Chuck's Cafe) where Dennis Weaver was checking out all the cowboy boots on guys sitting at the bar. It's now a French restaurant! https://lechene.com

You mention most people not driving like they say, long trips I assume. It's funny, Sue and I make 330 mile flip turns up the to SF Bay Area all the time. We'll go up there for the day, usually heading back at 9PM or so for our drive back in total darkness. It's no big deal for Sue and me. Our 40 year old son and his wife doing a flip turn to visit us? That would be the equivalent of the Bataan death march!

Scott

 

[UncleDave]

What did you do back in the day when gas vehicles didn't have this kind of range?

I remember the 70s and 80s with a 10mpg station wagon. Speed limit was 55 to boot. A 600 mile drive took 12 hours with 3-4 gas stops. And vehicles with carburetors and points ignitions were not as reliable unless you stayed on top of the maintenance. And even then, things like vapor lock happened, and once you vapor locked, you were stuck until the engine cooled off.

I can understand the millennials and younger not ever knowing these experiences, but old guys making comments about the range performance of electric cars strikes me as odd sometimes. I guess they forgot what travel was like when they were young.

Totally. If you are a GenX-er or older you should remember all that.

Old guys should also know about what a real performance car was like (if they actually had one - few did) then and what level of performance you got for what it cost to own and drive.

What kind of mileage would a 12 or 13 second 4 door car get, and how reliable and livable was that car ?

That said a bunch of guys get kicks from going the other way on that deal and driving 50MPG small diesels which were sow but totally livable the Small benzes were really cool from a luxury with efficiency - an area which the EV also delivers well against.

 

[The Critic]

I can't imagine having to refuel for a 200 mile round trip, especially when I'd have to leave my car and occupy myself somewhere else while it recharges. I make frequent trips up your way, a 330 mile round trip, on the same day, a "flip turn" as I call it. Having to refuel for my 330 mile drive would be unacceptable for me.

Scott

I like to stop and stretch my legs about every 150 miles. Even before having kids, it was a common practice for me.

The EV range on the highway at I5 speeds is going to be pretty lackluster - you're probably going to be in the low 2mi/kwh range at 85-95 mph.

So for me, as long as I can get 125-150 miles between charging stops, that's fine. Heck, my wife's TX500h only gets 250 miles before the DTE shows 0.

 

[Brons2]

You mention most people not driving like they say, long trips I assume. It's funny, Sue and I make 330 mile flip turns up the to SF Bay Area all the time. We'll go up there for the day, usually heading back at 9PM or so for our drive back in total darkness. It's no big deal for Sue and me. Our 40 year old son and his wife doing a flip turn to visit us? That would be the equivalent of the Bataan death march!

Scott

I enjoyed driving the entire length of Spain about 18 months ago.

In the USA, don't enjoy road trips so much, usually fly places these days just to minimize my exposure to driving. Driving here is like driving in a 3rd world country now, horrible manners and etiquette. Maybe it's different in rural coastal California, but I doubt it. The one saving grace is driving places that don't have a lot of traffic, at least then the bad behavior is limited.

 

[Brons2]

I like to stop and stretch my legs about every 150 miles. Even before having kids, it was a common practice for me.

The EV range on the highway at I5 speeds is going to be pretty lackluster - you're probably going to be in the low 2mi/kwh range at 85-95 mph.

So for me, as long as I can get 125-150 miles between charging stops, that's fine. Heck, my wife's TX500h only gets 250 miles before the DTE shows 0.

Where on I-5 can you go 85-95? Every time I've driven it in recent years I'm struggling to get much over 65 because of the bumper to bumper traffic.

 

[dogememe]

Where on I-5 can you go 85-95? Every time I've driven it in recent years I'm struggling to get much over 65 because of the bumper to bumper traffic.

Depends on the time. Both times I’ve done the drive to LA I was going quite fast most of the time.

Fwiw doing it in the Tesla was a very pleasant experience. The limit to how fast we got there was human, not EV related.

 

[Trav]

I don't think that reflects the total cost, because he had charged it to 80% before leaving, and this 26.21 kWh was just a "top-up". According to Edmunds the 2024 Model 3 Performance averages 34.4 kWh/100 miles, so overall consumption for 200 miles would have been 68.8 kWh, which, at $0.48/kWh would have cost $33.00.

The little TDI needs 4 gallons of diesel, even at today's price here is is $10/100. I go to Boston a couple of times a week, it is $10 a trip back and forth and it will do just as fast and comfortable as any ev.

 

[The Critic]

Where on I-5 can you go 85-95? Every time I've driven it in recent years I'm struggling to get much over 65 because of the bumper to bumper traffic.

The section between Tracy and the Grapevine is pretty much no-man's land. That's around 250 miles of fast driving.

 

[UncleDave]

Sue and still prefer driving to SoCal even though we can get easy flights out of SBP. In fact, we're going to make a one or two night visit to LA and see the Peterson Automotive Museum. Great wife, eh?

As an aside, Sue and I watched the classic movie "Duel" the other night. We're going to explore the back roads where that was filmed. We plan on having dinner at the place (Chuck's Cafe) where Dennis Weaver was checking out all the cowboy boots on guys sitting at the bar. It's now a French restaurant! https://lechene.com

You mention most people not driving like they say, long trips I assume. It's funny, Sue and I make 330 mile flip turns up the to SF Bay Area all the time. We'll go up there for the day, usually heading back at 9PM or so for our drive back in total darkness. It's no big deal for Sue and me. Our 40 year old son and his wife doing a flip turn to visit us? That would be the equivalent of the Bataan death march!

Scott

She got a sister?

 

[UncleDave]

The section between Tracy and the Grapevine is pretty much no-man's land. That's around 250 miles of fast driving.

Yup -and man is that stretch hot in the summer.

High speed charge and cabin cool compromises in architecture really show up to play in an EV right here.

I typically try to hit the floor of the valley by 5 or 6AM avoiding most of the traffic and heat.

 

[UncleDave]

The little TDI needs 4 gallons of diesel, even at today's price here is is $10/100. I go to Boston a couple of times a week, it is $10 a trip back and forth and it will do just as fast and comfortable as any ev.

The pre DPF, DEF diesels were the absolute bomb.
Once the emission stuff started the diesels turned into a pain. That said I still loved my sprinters.
It's probably different for you because you can basically do anything where I'm limited to basic stuff.

 

[slo town]

The section between Tracy and the Grapevine is pretty much no-man's land. That's around 250 miles of fast driving.

Where on I-5 can you go 85-95? Every time I've driven it in recent years I'm struggling to get much over 65 because of the bumper to bumper traffic.

Heading south, the drop down from Gorman to Santa Clarita is always super fast. You better be on your A-game there. No mercy is shown for left lane speed limit monitors.

Back in the old days soon after I-5 opened, it was a highway out in the middle of freaking nowhere. There was virtually no traffic on it late at night. I used to drive from Los Gatos to I-5 via Hwy 152 past San Luis Reservoir (which I don't think had been built yet). I'd hop on 5 and head south to make back and forth 4 or 5 mile long top speed runs in the middle of the night in my Healey 3000s. I'd hit 115-120 IIRC, which seemed fast back then, especially at that early stage of my life.

Scott

 

[slo town]

She got a sister?

Actually, she does, and she's single. She loves cars and racing too. Her husband of 45-ish years passed away much too soon 2 or 3 years ago, but you'll be competing for her love with her German Shepard.

Scott