Today's Supercharging Session

[JeffKeryk]

How do you figure? Both have to be fueled/charged prior to the trip. Then I have to refuel when I get home (although I still have about 75 miles of range left). Even if the EV has the range to make the 330 mile trip, it has to be recharged when it gets home.

Scott

Scott, the difference is having to go somewhere to fuel up or in your garage. My ICE vehicles spend far more time, and cost, fueling. It's not even close.

Had I charged to 90+ percent at home overnight, there would be no stopping, at least for charging. I probably could have made it home, but I wanted a coffee. It's fun to explore new places.

 

[ripcord]

Dang. .48 per kW should be torches and pitchforks prices. Why do people stand for that?

 

[slo town]

Dang. .48 per kW should be torches and pitchforks prices. Why do people stand for that?

It's California. Gasoline get hit too. California has a 70 cent a gallon gasoline tax (and this is just Cali's cut).

Scott

 

[E365]

I drive 340 miles roundtrip to work weekly.

For a real-world example, my Blazer EV needs a 12 minute DCFC stop each way to get back home with ~10%

My LYRIQ needs a 9 minute DCFC stop each way to get back home with ~10%.

Add a few minutes if it’s below freezing.

It’s literally the time it takes me to walk inside the convenience store, use the bathroom, grab a snack/drink and get back to the car. I guess if you didn’t have a bladder, it would be a hassle.

 

[E365]

It's California. Gasoline get hit too. California has a 70 cent a gallon gasoline tax (and this is just Cali's cut).

Scott

You should see Nevada. Vegas has a 92¢/kWh Tesla Supercharger. 66¢ for owners and monthly members.

 

[UncleDave]

Fair enough, but I don't have the electrical service at our house to charge an EV, at least not quickly.

Sue and I like taking road trips. Often times long ones. The convenience and speed of a gasoline fill up is paramount to us.

Our oldest son got promoted to a position where he was provided a vehicle to do his work, a Ford Lightning of all things. But, given the distances he has to travel, usually urgently and never to the same places, he exchanged it for a gasoline powered Camry. He told me range anxiety was a real thing in his situation.

Scott

Fair. Lots of people get by just fine on a standard 15 amp connection but 50 amp makes a huge diff.

I like road trips as well and probably drive close to 20K a year. Today's EV's do a great job with overall trip time.

Traveling with my wife the trip time between ICE and EV is identical, a bio break is perfectly timed with an EV charge session.

 

[slo town]

Scott, the difference is having to go somewhere to fuel up or in your garage. My ICE vehicles spend far more time, and cost, fueling. It's not even close.

Had I charged to 90+ percent at home overnight, there would be no stopping, at least for charging. I probably could have made it home, but I wanted a coffee. It's fun to explore new places.

The infrastructure to charge your EV is not free. I suspect it would cost me $25K just to get fast charging capability installed at our house, and that's assuming the underground electrical service to our home and area is even capable of supplying that load. Putting solar in would cost another $50K. Being retired, that is real money for me.

Make no mistake, I'm not anti-EV. The issue I have is how they are being mandated with no consideration to the practicality and cost of the charging infrastructure (e.g. a large apartment complex). Personally, I think hybrids are the best solution.

Scott

 

[UncleDave]

The infrastructure to charge your EV is not free. I suspect it would cost me $25K just to get fast charging capability installed at our house, and that's assuming the electrical service to our home is even capable for supplying that load. Putting solar in would cost another $50K. Being retired, that is real money for me.

Make no mistake, I'm not anti-EV. The issue I have is how they are being mandated with no consideration to the practicality and cost of the charging infrastructure (e.g. a large apartment complex). Personally, I think hybrids are the best solution.

Scott

Pretty sure the mandate is gone (thankfully).

 

[slo town]

Pretty sure the mandate is gone (thankfully).

Let's hope.

I've always been a sedan guy. I think the new Prius has some great lines on it. That would be a very strong contender if I were in the new car market. It'd perfect for those 330 mile flip turns I mentioned. That'd probably be just 6 gallons or so per round trip.

Scott

 

[E365]

The infrastructure to charge your EV is not free. I suspect it would cost me $25K just to get fast charging capability installed at our house, and that's assuming the underground electrical service to our home and area is even capable of supplying that load. Putting solar in would cost another $50K. Being retired, that is real money for me.

Make no mistake, I'm not anti-EV. The issue I have is how they are being mandated with no consideration to the practicality and cost of the charging infrastructure (e.g. a large apartment complex). Personally, I think hybrids are the best solution.

Scott

You’re looking to install a DC Fast Charger at your house?

 

[JeffKeryk]

Dang. .48 per kW should be torches and pitchforks prices. Why do people stand for that?

Wait till you gas up your pickup...

 

[OVERKILL]

Are they eye-watering? Sure, compared with 0.14 kWh locally, but $14 to go 200 miles seems really cheap.

Cost/mile is reasonable even if cost/kWh is high.

I don't think that reflects the total cost, because he had charged it to 80% before leaving, and this 26.21 kWh was just a "top-up". According to Edmunds the 2024 Model 3 Performance averages 34.4 kWh/100 miles, so overall consumption for 200 miles would have been 68.8 kWh, which, at $0.48/kWh would have cost $33.00.

 

[JeffKeryk]

The infrastructure to charge your EV is not free. I suspect it would cost me $25K just to get fast charging capability installed at our house, and that's assuming the underground electrical service to our home and area is even capable of supplying that load. Putting solar in would cost another $50K. Being retired, that is real money for me.

Make no mistake, I'm not anti-EV. The issue I have is how they are being mandated with no consideration to the practicality and cost of the charging infrastructure (e.g. a large apartment complex). Personally, I think hybrids are the best solution.

Scott

You need room in your service panel for a 50A breaker. From there, it is running a big fat copper wire to a NEMA 14-50, or better yet a hard wired charger. Another option is a clothes dryer plug splitter, like the NeoCharge smart splitter.

I think I paid $600 all in for 60' of #6 copper wire under the house to the garage. There are Marine type recepticals like the Hubbel that are a good idea. After a year, I had the Tesla Wall Charger installed.
Then:

Now:

 

[Astro14]

I don't think that reflects the total cost, because he had charged it to 80% before leaving, and this 26.21 kWh was just a "top-up". According to Edmunds the 2024 Model 3 Performance averages 34.4 kWh/100 miles, so overall consumption for 200 miles would have been 68.8 kWh, which, at $0.48/kWh would have cost $33.00.

Still a lower cost/mile than my Mercedes, which would take 10 gallons of premium to cover 200 miles, or my Tundra, which would take 12 gallons of regular to cover 200 miles.

With the move to FL, we are looking at Solar to offset our electric, and we have a plug-in hybrid.

The cost to run the plug in hybrid on electricity is far lower than gasoline.

Some interesting numbers to be run and considered either way.

 

[slo town]

You’re looking to install a DC Fast Charger at your house?

In all candor, I am ignorant of what I'd need. All I know is that an EV is not what I want given our home infrastructure and needs.

If I had to buy something new it'd be a hybrid; a Prius or Camry XSE would fit our needs and style. Sue and I like road tripping in sedans and we often drive 400 to 600 miles per day to get to our destination. Not bad for a couple in their 70s!

Two years ago Sue and I flew from San Luis Obispo to Denver, and then drove from Denver to Indianapolis for the 108th running of the 500 in two 600 mile days. We had an overnight stay in Topeka, KS. I got a gorgeous prime rib dinner for $28 and my gin and tonics were six bucks each. Made me realize how expensive California is.

Scott

 

[slo town]

You need room in your service panel for a 50A breaker. From there, it is running a big fat copper wire to a NEMA 14-50, or better yet a hard wired charger. Another option is a clothes dryer plug splitter, like the NeoCharge smart splitter.

I think I paid $600 all in for 60' of #6 copper wire under the house to the garage. There are Marine type recepticals like the Hubbel that are a good idea. After a year, I had the Tesla Wall Charger installed.
Then:
View attachment 337203
Now:
View attachment 337204

We have an unused close dryer outlet, so there's hope!

Thanks for the info @JeffKeryk.

Scott

 

[slo town]

You need room in your service panel for a 50A breaker. From there, it is running a big fat copper wire to a NEMA 14-50, or better yet a hard wired charger. Another option is a clothes dryer plug splitter, like the NeoCharge smart splitter.

I think I paid $600 all in for 60' of #6 copper wire under the house to the garage. There are Marine type recepticals like the Hubbel that are a good idea. After a year, I had the Tesla Wall Charger installed.
Then:
View attachment 337203

Is that a Raiders cap?! I would have never imagined with you!

Scott

 

[JeffKeryk]

I don't think that reflects the total cost, because he had charged it to 80% before leaving, and this 26.21 kWh was just a "top-up". According to Edmunds the 2024 Model 3 Performance averages 34.4 kWh/100 miles, so overall consumption for 200 miles would have been 68.8 kWh, which, at $0.48/kWh would have cost $33.00.

That assumes the trip was all on a Supercharger. My problem was starting with 80% state of charge. Supercharger costs only become comparable on longer trips.
In this case, it was much too expensive. According to the planner, I only needed to charge for 1 minute. I was 35 miles from home and had 50 miles left, as I recall. Starbucks was the problem!
As you know, I optimized my expensive CA electricity cost long ago. Not everyone can do that, of course. Monthly electricity bill for house and car is far less than a tank of gas, especially nowadays.

I charge to 95% overnight when going distance which covers the 200+ miles at freeway speeds with plenty to spare. This is why I recommend 300 mile range to perspective buyers. Regardless, I generally stop for something on the way home anyways.

IMO, the EV ease of use has to be experienced to be appreciated. Give the use case, of course.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Is that a Raiders cap?! I would have never imagined with you!

Scott

I was a Raiders fan back in the day. Then they moved to LA. Of course Stanford legend Jim Plunkett, Lick HS, is a local hero. In '83 I got 49ers season tickets; they were pretty OK back then, right?. But when the ticket prices jumped, I was done. I do take my grand niece twins to 1 game a year as their father passed away.

That cap belonged to an old friend who tragically OD'ed years ago. His family gave me his cap.

By the way, hybrids are great.

 

[JeffKeryk]

We have an unused close dryer outlet, so there's hope!

Thanks for the info @JeffKeryk.

Scott

You would get about 30-35 MPH charging with the older dryer plug, depending on circuit. Charging at night and having 230 cheap miles per day ain't too shabby. Come to my house and plug in for an hour and get 40 miles. All good. I think the LG library has , or had, some free chargers. West Valley College has 12 cents per kWh charging!