"Let he who is without sin cast the first Prius." -Brian Griffin
(I was doubled over after he said that line when his unoccupied Toy came crashing through the window of the house.)
To Prius or to not....
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Originally Posted By: cutter
If you don't care about the joy of driving, it's the right sort of car for you.
^^^Why I could NEVER own one (besides the looks), even if I could EVER bring myself to actually buy a Toy (which is NOT going to happen anyway).
If you don't care about the joy of driving, it's the right sort of car for you.
^^^Why I could NEVER own one (besides the looks), even if I could EVER bring myself to actually buy a Toy (which is NOT going to happen anyway).
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
How much is the asking price if may ask?
Well, on the rebuilt titled Level 2 (pretty basic) 2008 Prius with 55,000 miles - $10,300
On the 2007 Level 5 with 53,000 miles that Im going to look at tonight - $13,500. Never been in an accident, extra set of winter wheels with new tires, new tires on car, almost fully loaded with NAV, etc...
How much is the asking price if may ask?
Well, on the rebuilt titled Level 2 (pretty basic) 2008 Prius with 55,000 miles - $10,300
On the 2007 Level 5 with 53,000 miles that Im going to look at tonight - $13,500. Never been in an accident, extra set of winter wheels with new tires, new tires on car, almost fully loaded with NAV, etc...
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: cutter
If you don't care about the joy of driving, it's the right sort of car for you.
^^^Why I could NEVER own one (besides the looks), even if I could EVER bring myself to actually buy a Toy (which is NOT going to happen anyway).
Sure, some people look at cars as appliances and some people look at cars as a source of excitement. I'm not judgmental and I'm not saying that one take is better than other. I used to be in the one extreme and now I migrated into another. Aging, I guess.
Originally Posted By: cutter
If you don't care about the joy of driving, it's the right sort of car for you.
^^^Why I could NEVER own one (besides the looks), even if I could EVER bring myself to actually buy a Toy (which is NOT going to happen anyway).
Sure, some people look at cars as appliances and some people look at cars as a source of excitement. I'm not judgmental and I'm not saying that one take is better than other. I used to be in the one extreme and now I migrated into another. Aging, I guess.
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The Prius at least is the highest MPG car sold in the US right now. Gas-only cars don't come anywhere near a Prius in terms of outright fuel economy. Even my Cruze, which is a darned efficient gas-only car, still won't hold a candle to a Prius for MPG. 33 combined vs 50 combined. The disparity in the mid-00's was even greater when 35 mpg highway was thought to be great fuel economy for a compact car.
I stand corrected. I honestly thought the Prius was a low 40 MPG car, not 50 and was on the same par with, say a TDI. I researched at fueleconomy.gov and found out I was wrong.
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And, today's high-efficiency cars have DI/turbo/VVT/HPFP's/DPF/dual-clutch transmissions/CVT's to worry about. They are equally if not more complex than a Prius, and have a poorer track record for reliability. VW TDI's are grenading their fuel pumps, direct injection is debatable on long-term reliability, there's plenty enough to go wrong with a turbo engine, and dual-clutch gearboxes are proving to be an awful choice for $20-25k cars.
Funny how turbos and direct injection is unreliable now but both have been used successfully in Diesel applications for decades. Variable Valve Timing has also been around since Honda did Vtec (yo
. Neither is inherently un reliable. I'll also bet that my direct injected, dual turbocharged Ford will make it to 150 or 200k without issues and following their oil and coolant change reccomendations. Sure some may have issues but you have that with every engine ever made,
I'm not sold on DSG yet but I think that may be the way of the future as fuel economy standards go up. Or we may be driving CVTs with a large ratio
The Prius at least is the highest MPG car sold in the US right now. Gas-only cars don't come anywhere near a Prius in terms of outright fuel economy. Even my Cruze, which is a darned efficient gas-only car, still won't hold a candle to a Prius for MPG. 33 combined vs 50 combined. The disparity in the mid-00's was even greater when 35 mpg highway was thought to be great fuel economy for a compact car.
I stand corrected. I honestly thought the Prius was a low 40 MPG car, not 50 and was on the same par with, say a TDI. I researched at fueleconomy.gov and found out I was wrong.
Quote:
And, today's high-efficiency cars have DI/turbo/VVT/HPFP's/DPF/dual-clutch transmissions/CVT's to worry about. They are equally if not more complex than a Prius, and have a poorer track record for reliability. VW TDI's are grenading their fuel pumps, direct injection is debatable on long-term reliability, there's plenty enough to go wrong with a turbo engine, and dual-clutch gearboxes are proving to be an awful choice for $20-25k cars.
Funny how turbos and direct injection is unreliable now but both have been used successfully in Diesel applications for decades. Variable Valve Timing has also been around since Honda did Vtec (yo
I'm not sold on DSG yet but I think that may be the way of the future as fuel economy standards go up. Or we may be driving CVTs with a large ratio
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Cause when they break the $20k VW owner gets a taste of Porsche ownership when they get the bill! LOl, my buddy's GF has a Jetta and they had to replace the DSG under warranty, it was over $4k. You can put a battery in a Prius for less than that.
Warranty replaces the whole thing as its cheaper and leads to better satisfaction than trying to rebuild it. If someone messes up the rebuild the customer is back and they are upset and the work has to be done twice. Easier to swap in a factory remanufactured unit.
I'd imagine in enough time they will figure out how to rebuild them "in the field".
That price doesn't seem too out of line. When I blew the trans in my 2000 Explorer I was quoted $3k for a Ford remanufactured 5R55E for that. Found a local guy who had excellent references who did it for $1900.
Cause when they break the $20k VW owner gets a taste of Porsche ownership when they get the bill! LOl, my buddy's GF has a Jetta and they had to replace the DSG under warranty, it was over $4k. You can put a battery in a Prius for less than that.
Warranty replaces the whole thing as its cheaper and leads to better satisfaction than trying to rebuild it. If someone messes up the rebuild the customer is back and they are upset and the work has to be done twice. Easier to swap in a factory remanufactured unit.
I'd imagine in enough time they will figure out how to rebuild them "in the field".
That price doesn't seem too out of line. When I blew the trans in my 2000 Explorer I was quoted $3k for a Ford remanufactured 5R55E for that. Found a local guy who had excellent references who did it for $1900.
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: cutter
If you don't care about the joy of driving, it's the right sort of car for you.
^^^Why I could NEVER own one (besides the looks), even if I could EVER bring myself to actually buy a Toy (which is NOT going to happen anyway).
Sure, some people look at cars as appliances and some people look at cars as a source of excitement. I'm not judgmental and I'm not saying that one take is better than other. I used to be in the one extreme and now I migrated into another. Aging, I guess.
Yes, to each their own.
I just know that if I were 'forced into' (by circumstance, government regs, trade economics, etc.) an 'appliance', I would rather use my bicycle (and get more pleasure/health benefits out of it) for everything I possibly can, rather than HATE every second behind the wheel of an anemic device I would DESPISE paying even a penny to use.
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: cutter
If you don't care about the joy of driving, it's the right sort of car for you.
^^^Why I could NEVER own one (besides the looks), even if I could EVER bring myself to actually buy a Toy (which is NOT going to happen anyway).
Sure, some people look at cars as appliances and some people look at cars as a source of excitement. I'm not judgmental and I'm not saying that one take is better than other. I used to be in the one extreme and now I migrated into another. Aging, I guess.
Yes, to each their own.
I just know that if I were 'forced into' (by circumstance, government regs, trade economics, etc.) an 'appliance', I would rather use my bicycle (and get more pleasure/health benefits out of it) for everything I possibly can, rather than HATE every second behind the wheel of an anemic device I would DESPISE paying even a penny to use.
Interesting discussion. We recently purchased a hybrid as I expect the price of gas to get to $5/gal within a few years but we also wanted comfort and a car that rides well for long trips. And, I also wanted around 40MPG on average. I have driven and been a passenger in daughter's Prius and I do not believe it would be comfortable on long trips, shes says fine and loves the 50 MPG.
So, we tested the Camry hybrid, Fusion and the Lincoln. Wife loved the Lincoln (only one, other than Prius that has no hybrid markup over gas version) and after 5 months I have to say it is a great car, averaging around 39/40 overall and rides great, no problems with it of any kind, built like a tank, 4 years free maint came with it and 4 year warranty bumper to bumper. At 191 total HP it has plenty of power 95% of the time.
Downside, right now service is limited to dealers, local shops may never be able to service it other than oil change.
So, we tested the Camry hybrid, Fusion and the Lincoln. Wife loved the Lincoln (only one, other than Prius that has no hybrid markup over gas version) and after 5 months I have to say it is a great car, averaging around 39/40 overall and rides great, no problems with it of any kind, built like a tank, 4 years free maint came with it and 4 year warranty bumper to bumper. At 191 total HP it has plenty of power 95% of the time.
Downside, right now service is limited to dealers, local shops may never be able to service it other than oil change.
Originally Posted By: Spector
Interesting discussion. We recently purchased a hybrid as I expect the price of gas to get to $5/gal within a few years
It will happen much sooner than you think, especially with the QE3 that just started.
Interesting discussion. We recently purchased a hybrid as I expect the price of gas to get to $5/gal within a few years
It will happen much sooner than you think, especially with the QE3 that just started.
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Variable Valve Timing has also been around since Honda did Vtec (yo.
Sorry, variable valve timing has been around since the steam engine. It was used in aircraft engines in the early '20s. Alfa Romeo was the first to use it in a production car starting in 1980. VTEC made its debut in 1989. Yo that.
Ed
I do find it interesting that a large number of hybrid owners (most?) don't purchase another hybrid, when replacement time comes.
This can only mean that they don't generally enjoy the driving experience, or that the cars are less than practical for their use. The savings are not worth it, according to previous hybrid owners.
This can only mean that they don't generally enjoy the driving experience, or that the cars are less than practical for their use. The savings are not worth it, according to previous hybrid owners.
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Cause when they break the $20k VW owner gets a taste of Porsche ownership when they get the bill! LOl, my buddy's GF has a Jetta and they had to replace the DSG under warranty, it was over $4k. You can put a battery in a Prius for less than that.
Warranty replaces the whole thing as its cheaper and leads to better satisfaction than trying to rebuild it. If someone messes up the rebuild the customer is back and they are upset and the work has to be done twice. Easier to swap in a factory remanufactured unit.
I'd imagine in enough time they will figure out how to rebuild them "in the field".
That price doesn't seem too out of line. When I blew the trans in my 2000 Explorer I was quoted $3k for a Ford remanufactured 5R55E for that. Found a local guy who had excellent references who did it for $1900.
Trans rebuilds are pricey. The only consolation is to know that, after the rebuild, you have a virtually new trans. Put some LGR in, double-dose it and enjoy the ride...
As to the Prius, I found the backseat VERY roomy. As to driving one, ive heard mixed reviews. 46MPG sounds good though.. WITHOUT a VW diesel...
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Cause when they break the $20k VW owner gets a taste of Porsche ownership when they get the bill! LOl, my buddy's GF has a Jetta and they had to replace the DSG under warranty, it was over $4k. You can put a battery in a Prius for less than that.
Warranty replaces the whole thing as its cheaper and leads to better satisfaction than trying to rebuild it. If someone messes up the rebuild the customer is back and they are upset and the work has to be done twice. Easier to swap in a factory remanufactured unit.
I'd imagine in enough time they will figure out how to rebuild them "in the field".
That price doesn't seem too out of line. When I blew the trans in my 2000 Explorer I was quoted $3k for a Ford remanufactured 5R55E for that. Found a local guy who had excellent references who did it for $1900.
Trans rebuilds are pricey. The only consolation is to know that, after the rebuild, you have a virtually new trans. Put some LGR in, double-dose it and enjoy the ride...
As to the Prius, I found the backseat VERY roomy. As to driving one, ive heard mixed reviews. 46MPG sounds good though.. WITHOUT a VW diesel...
Originally Posted By: GearheadTool
Trans rebuilds are pricey. The only consolation is to know that, after the rebuild, you have a virtually new trans...
I would change one word there, the only consolation is to hope that you have a virtually new transmission. I have seen too many unsatisfactory rebuilds, and they were not cheap. I imagine the success rate of 'factory' rebuilds is better.
Trans rebuilds are pricey. The only consolation is to know that, after the rebuild, you have a virtually new trans...
I would change one word there, the only consolation is to hope that you have a virtually new transmission. I have seen too many unsatisfactory rebuilds, and they were not cheap. I imagine the success rate of 'factory' rebuilds is better.
Sold my 2002 Envoy yesterday. Was a bummer to see it leave but really with maintenance (read: nonstop problems) and mpg's it was killing me.
Found a super nice 2007 Prius, Level 5 from a private seller, original owners, 53k miles. Loaded with 6 disc changer, NAV, smart key, fog lights, garage kept and super clean. Pulled the maintenance records from Toyota owners site, looks great.
Comes with new tires AND a brand new set of winter tires on separate rims - score! Very glad I waited and looked around. Ill update the thread soon.
Which, speaking of this thread, guess I should consider editing and renaming it "To Prius or to.... Yes, to Prius" LOL.
Found a super nice 2007 Prius, Level 5 from a private seller, original owners, 53k miles. Loaded with 6 disc changer, NAV, smart key, fog lights, garage kept and super clean. Pulled the maintenance records from Toyota owners site, looks great.
Comes with new tires AND a brand new set of winter tires on separate rims - score! Very glad I waited and looked around. Ill update the thread soon.
Which, speaking of this thread, guess I should consider editing and renaming it "To Prius or to.... Yes, to Prius" LOL.
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Originally Posted By: itguy08
Funny how turbos and direct injection is unreliable now but both have been used successfully in Diesel applications for decades. Variable Valve Timing has also been around since Honda did Vtec (yo
. Neither is inherently un reliable. I'll also bet that my direct injected, dual turbocharged Ford will make it to 150 or 200k without issues and following their oil and coolant change reccomendations. Sure some may have issues but you have that with every engine ever made,
I'm not sold on DSG yet but I think that may be the way of the future as fuel economy standards go up. Or we may be driving CVTs with a large ratio
It all depends on who makes them and to what price point. Those Ecoboost seems to be low boost pressure and mass produced, so they in theory should be much more reliable than the aftermarket turbos kits that many have problem with.
I'm not sure if I would trust an "in theory" reliable product if it is made by VW. Personal bias? Sure, but I've seen too many things that should "in theory" be reliable on my friends' VWs that broke.
Funny how turbos and direct injection is unreliable now but both have been used successfully in Diesel applications for decades. Variable Valve Timing has also been around since Honda did Vtec (yo
I'm not sold on DSG yet but I think that may be the way of the future as fuel economy standards go up. Or we may be driving CVTs with a large ratio
It all depends on who makes them and to what price point. Those Ecoboost seems to be low boost pressure and mass produced, so they in theory should be much more reliable than the aftermarket turbos kits that many have problem with.
I'm not sure if I would trust an "in theory" reliable product if it is made by VW. Personal bias? Sure, but I've seen too many things that should "in theory" be reliable on my friends' VWs that broke.
Originally Posted By: Cujet
I do find it interesting that a large number of hybrid owners (most?) don't purchase another hybrid, when replacement time comes.
This can only mean that they don't generally enjoy the driving experience, or that the cars are less than practical for their use. The savings are not worth it, according to previous hybrid owners.
It's funny how you make wrong assumptions that fit your believes while being totally ignorant about the hybrid ownership.
I have 2 cars in my garage. One is a hybrid for daily driving, another is V6 269HP SUV garage queen for boat towing. I do not need 2 hybrid cars for myself.
Also the study you mentioned clearly showed that hybrids owners purchase second hybrid at the rate that is much higher than the general population, even though it may be less than 100%.
It's funny how anti hybrid crowd will spin any objective information to bash hybrids.
I do find it interesting that a large number of hybrid owners (most?) don't purchase another hybrid, when replacement time comes.
This can only mean that they don't generally enjoy the driving experience, or that the cars are less than practical for their use. The savings are not worth it, according to previous hybrid owners.
It's funny how you make wrong assumptions that fit your believes while being totally ignorant about the hybrid ownership.
I have 2 cars in my garage. One is a hybrid for daily driving, another is V6 269HP SUV garage queen for boat towing. I do not need 2 hybrid cars for myself.
Also the study you mentioned clearly showed that hybrids owners purchase second hybrid at the rate that is much higher than the general population, even though it may be less than 100%.
It's funny how anti hybrid crowd will spin any objective information to bash hybrids.
Wild thought: maybe hybrid owners have a change in their vehicle needs? What would happen if we compared the percentage of repeat hybrid purchasers with say repeat SUV purchasers? Or better yet, what about minivan repeat purchasers? I bet none of them have 100% repeat buyers.
I could see a number of people buying a hybrid, then getting married and having kids; and then needing a larger vehicle. Hybrid or econobox. Similarly, as the nest thins out, perhaps they go back to econobox. Then they feel too old and buy something sporty.
As much as I love my car I've thought about doing something different next time. And changing would have more to do with other "needs" than deficencies in the diesel station wagon setup.
I could see a number of people buying a hybrid, then getting married and having kids; and then needing a larger vehicle. Hybrid or econobox. Similarly, as the nest thins out, perhaps they go back to econobox. Then they feel too old and buy something sporty.
As much as I love my car I've thought about doing something different next time. And changing would have more to do with other "needs" than deficencies in the diesel station wagon setup.
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