To EV or not to EV

[UncleDave]

I charged at home powered by solar panels.

Curious if you mean that literally, did you tell the car to only charge during solar productive hours only?

Or is it more accurate to say its - "paid for" by solar panels?

For those not here in California electricity and peak cost lead many to game their consumption.
Things like shutting off garage fridges, freezers and pool pumps, not running appliances from 4 to 9 to avoid jacking up the bill.

 

[dogememe]

I suspect that most people purchasing EVs at this time don't plan on keeping them longer than 3-5 years, or whenever the lease or loan is done. Plus, keep in mind that we are still in the early days of EVs. In 3-5 years there will be many more options and advances, including charging infrastructure. The people, like myself, that will get screwed down the road are those who purchase well used cars and then drive them for many more miles. Whereas I pretty much know what I am getting with an old ICE vehicle I have no idea what something like a Bolt will be like when it is ten or more years old, and it would be disappointing to only be able to purchase vehicles that are hobbled by range problems with a looming huge bill for a new battery, if they are even replaceable at that point. My current fleet of ICE vehicles are all 17 years old.

If we look at used EVs… Nissan Leafs due to lack of liquid cooling/proper thermal management, deep cycling, are a bad proposition after 5+ years. Vs in my Volt I’m at 8 years with no degradation due to good battery management and thermal management. Lots of Teslas out there getting up in years and high miles and their batteries haven’t degraded much. We can expect this to continue to get better as companies learn more about what works and what doesn’t. For example, Nissans new EV, the Ariya, has battery liquid cooling and comparable thermal management to the competition. So I! 5 years a used Ariya is probably a much safer bet than a used Leaf.

Also, more and more companies and people are working hard on rebuilding/repairing/replacing EV batteries. So let’s say you buy a new Bolt today. In 10 years, you’ll probably be able to have the battery restored to similar to new condition by a number of shops around the country, if it’s having issues.

As more and more manufacturers switch to platforms where the battery components are shared across different models it’s going to get even easier. For example while a Volt and a Bolt use different batteries from the cell up, all the new GM Ultium stuff will use the same cells. So cells out of a wrecked Hummer EV can be used for parts to fix multiple Equinox EVs, Blazer EVs, Lyriqs. Etc.

 

[dogememe]

Also I want to mention that while EVs have a few large/expensive components there is much less stuff than an ICE car to fix or break. Sure, cooling systems can leak, CV axles could break, etc. but you don’t need to do maintenance or repairs like valve cover gaskets, cams/lifters, VVT phasers, etc. all stuff that gets real pricey on modern ICE cars, so for someone buying a used EV out of warranty, it’s less likely to nickel and dime them to death.

 

[AuthorEditor]

In 10 years, you’ll probably be able to have the battery restored to similar to new condition by a number of shops around the country, if it’s having issues.

Maybe. Maybe not. What if Toyota's solid-state battery technology has taken over by then? Your car with old tech batteries requiring different charging systems, regimens, apps, and software might become a very large paper weight at that point.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Curious if you mean that literally, did you tell the car to only charge during solar productive hours only?

Or is it more accurate to say its - "paid for" by solar panels?

For those not here in California electricity and peak cost lead many to game their consumption.
Things like shutting off garage fridges, freezers and pool pumps, not running appliances from 4 to 9 to avoid jacking up the bill.

Paid for is probably correct. I pay monthly for grid use, but generation is greater than comsumption on an annual basis; I have not had a true up in 5 years of use. The way I look at it is, I generally want to get maxium benefit from the asset. Charging the EV is pure added value since no additional cost is incurred.

I generally charge off peak; the car is scheduled to be ready by 5:00AM. My cost is not affected, but I figure I might as well minimize use during peak to avoid brown outs or whatever.

Drove to Petaluma today and back home; there's another $45+ benefit as compared to driving the GS or Tundra. I could get used to this EV thing...

 

[Torrid]

Maybe. Maybe not. What if Toyota's solid-state battery technology has taken over by then? Your car with old tech batteries requiring different charging systems, regimens, apps, and software might become a very large paper weight at that point.

It’s easier to make something backwards compatible that has less capability in most cases which would be considered. Either that or you could decide to never jump in because everything constantly evolves. Just a thought.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Maybe. Maybe not. What if Toyota's solid-state battery technology has taken over by then? Your car with old tech batteries requiring different charging systems, regimens, apps, and software might become a very large paper weight at that point.

Early adopters often pay a price, no doubt. It depends on where you are in life and what you want.

 

[UncleDave]

Paid for is probably correct. I pay monthly for grid use, but generation is greater than comsumption on an annual basis; I have not had a true up in 5 years of use. The way I look at it is, I generally want to get maxium benefit from the asset. Charging the EV is pure added value since no additional cost is incurred.

I generally charge off peak; the car is scheduled to be ready by 5:00AM. My cost is not affected, but I figure I might as well minimize use during peak to avoid brown outs or whatever.

Drove to Petaluma today and back home; there's another $45+ benefit as compared to driving the GS or Tundra. I could get used to this EV thing...

I figured. You've got the OG contract and great production.

Im sitting at about 2.3 MW of overproduction myself and pondering what will be the best use of my production going forward.
I spent about 2200 in nat gas for heating this year most of which could be absorbed by a heat pump replacement vs gas furnace thats about 12K so basically a 6 year payback

I suspect I'll be around 4-5MW of overproduction based on the white roof and whole house fan significantly altering my baseloads.

Should I add an electric to the fleet - that same 2.3 buys me about 7K miles in a Model 3, or about 4500 in a half ton electric pickup.

I'll be irrigating late summer so the pumping will take some production and the deck and pool project are coming so Im pretty well positioned for future load - one thing is for certain if PGE writes me a check for my production it will be worth far less than my own use of it.

 

[y_p_w]

It’s easier to make something backwards compatible that has less capability in most cases which would be considered. Either that or you could decide to never jump in because everything constantly evolves. Just a thought.

Electricity itself hasn't really changed that much. My parents are getting a Tesla and their primary source is going to be a 240v dryer outlet. As long as portable charging systems are still sold, the ability to charge isn’t going to vanish just because there’s newer technology out there.

I can’t imagine in 15-20 years that somehow nobody makes lithium-ion batteries any more just because there’s a newer technology. There’s too much of an installed base of electronics out there.

 

[LDB]

For me the answer became not to EV. I bought a 2023 Ford Escape ST Line. The 2023 is a major upgrade from the 2022. I pleased with all the extras I now have and at ~300 miles a month the driving cost difference isn't that great.

 

[OVERKILL]

Maybe. Maybe not. What if Toyota's solid-state battery technology has taken over by then? Your car with old tech batteries requiring different charging systems, regimens, apps, and software might become a very large paper weight at that point.

The charging is handled by the car, so that's not going to be an issue. The purported advantage of solid state is it is less likely to catch fire and will be able to, in theory, take a charge faster.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I figured. You've got the OG contract and great production.

Im sitting at about 2.3 MW of overproduction myself and pondering what will be the best use of my production going forward.
I spent about 2200 in nat gas for heating this year most of which could be absorbed by a heat pump replacement vs gas furnace thats about 12K so basically a 6 year payback

I suspect I'll be around 4-5MW of overproduction based on the white roof and whole house fan significantly altering my baseloads.

Should I add an electric to the fleet - that same 2.3 buys me about 7K miles in a Model 3, or about 4500 in a half ton electric pickup.

I'll be irrigating late summer so the pumping will take some production and the deck and pool project are coming so Im pretty well positioned for future load - one thing is for certain if PGE writes me a check for my production it will be worth far less than my own use of it.

UD, the answer, IMO, is simple. You can't be logical and calculating about everything; that cannot be the only criterion. I say, "What do you want?" As you know, you can buy a Model 3 Performance for the lowest price now, but I would wait for the Highland. Have you factored in the gas savings? In my experience, the car never gets old, and our car is a Mid Range RWD.

Regardless, take PG&E for all they're worth. That's my 2 cents.

 

[Ws6]

Maybe. Maybe not. What if Toyota's solid-state battery technology has taken over by then? Your car with old tech batteries requiring different charging systems, regimens, apps, and software might become a very large paper weight at that point.

Then I guess I'll just have to live with the shame of having a mid 11 second SUV that saves me thousands per year in fuel but has poor trade in value?

 

[AuthorEditor]

Then I guess I'll just have to live with the shame of having a mid 11 second SUV that saves me thousands per year in fuel but has poor trade in value?

Will it have any trade-in value after say 10-15 years if the battery is shot? Here in the great Northeast ICE daily driver cars last about 20 years before rust ends their useful life. If BEVs can make 20 years with decent range still left there will be a reasonable used market.

 

[97prizm]

Are you sure about that? On many hybrid cars, if the hybrid components fail, the car won't move.

I second that. From what I've read on phev's the battery and engine systems are designed to work in conjunction with each other.

 

[Ws6]

Will it have any trade-in value after say 10-15 years if the battery is shot? Here in the great Northeast ICE daily driver cars last about 20 years before rust ends their useful life. If BEVs can make 20 years with decent range still left there will be a reasonable used market.

In 10 years I'll have 300K+ miles on it. The only thing with any trade value then is a diesel pickup or a Lexus RX350, lol! In the mean time, for each of those years, it saves me $5k in fuel, so that's $50k over 10 years in savings, so it kindof paid for itself compared to an RX350 anyway...

 

[Trav]

Then I guess I'll just have to live with the shame of having a mid 11 second SUV that saves me thousands per year in fuel but has poor trade in value?

Does it really matter if it is 11 sec or 20 sec, if you don't live on a drag strip it is useless. Depending on where you the roads are more like those of a war torn country where an old deuce and a half would be the best vehicle. I drove in Worcester, MA the other day it was more like downtown Kiev than a modern city.

 

[Ws6]

Does it really matter if it is 11 sec or 20 sec, if you don't live on a drag strip it is useless. Depending on where you the roads are more like those of a war torn country where an old deuce and a half would be the best vehicle. I drove in Worcester, MA the other day it was more like downtown Kiev than a modern city.

No, owning a quick and fast vehicle is always a bonus. It's why vehicles GAIN power each year instead of LOSE it. Noone wants that.

 

[John105]

@LDB why not take the money and put it in a 401K or IRA to avoid the take penalty. Maybe discuss with your financial planner...? FWI, if I won the Mega Millions I don't think I would buy an EV at this point.

Just my $0.02

I was taught not to use tax consequences as a buy sell decision, but more along the lines of securities. That is not to say don’t consider them nor don’t be aware.

Would a person take a $7500 incentive to get something they don’t want anyway?

When we put in the hvac in July 2020 there was a tiny $1050 total rebate and credit. It didn’t factor in to the decision, it was simply available. My understanding was that under Obama the credit was double and people rushed out and replaced working systems. That made no sense at least to me. But it was a great time to be in the hvac business (2009-10 I believe). My .02

 

[Snagglefoot]

Fuel costs:

If you charge your EV at home with solar panels is can be really cheap or even pretty much free.

......once you pay off your $12,000 capital cost for the solar system.