To EV or not to EV

If you are looking for that, you shouldn't be focusing on cost per mile or efficiency, just focus on getting a good car you like (sports car, SUV, truck, whatever) instead of focusing on EV or hybrid or gas. Some people like torque and they may pick Tesla, some people loves handling and they might pick a Miata / Lotus / S2000, and some like big V8 and they just buy a big V8.
I wanted it all. Got it all, minus the sound, although 20k rpm motors have their own sound.
 
Very interesting discussion, one I've been mulling recently. The idea of getting an electric vehicle of sorts--maybe not a full EV but a hybrid. We just completed a family visit trip of 300 miles, without interstates and only 1 medium sized city in route. Mostly small depressed towns to drive through. No chargers in sight, not much traffic either on this road in Western Oklahoma and Texas. An EV would not work.
 
I saw and got to check out a Bolt in the grocery parking lot this morning. I like it. It is small. Those may cancel each other out.

Part of my spec'ing on this is to upgrade to a higher trim level with heated seats and wheel, navigation etc. My car should be worth ~$20-21k net in trade. I figured why not use the tax credit to supplement that. The small remainder will come from selling the rent house with the rest going in savings.

If nothing else it is providing an excellent conversation here that I enjoy and appreciate.
 
I saw and got to check out a Bolt in the grocery parking lot this morning. I like it. It is small. Those may cancel each other out.

Part of my spec'ing on this is to upgrade to a higher trim level with heated seats and wheel, navigation etc. My car should be worth ~$20-21k net in trade. I figured why not use the tax credit to supplement that. The small remainder will come from selling the rent house with the rest going in savings.

If nothing else it is providing an excellent conversation here that I enjoy and appreciate.
Remember this is the last year for the Bolt. The battery tech is not the best and is very expensive. Having said that, people seem to love them. There are several on my block. My next door neighbor is on her 3rd EV; a RAV4 and 2nd Bolt.
 
Yes, I knew this was the last year. I think it is too small to be a serious contender. If I was going to have a 3rd vehicle just for fun it would move higher on the list. I don't think it will make the final cut for an only vehicle (for me, we have her Acura also). The Escape PHEV keeps looking likely given the limited list of credit eligible choices. The ID.4 when they get the less expensive models out and the Tesla 3 and Mach-E possibly. And maybe either the Blazer or Equinox when information becomes available on them. Anything else is not in contention.

Or maybe I'll just get a nice upgraded content ICE vehicle. I do really like the idea of around ~28Kw per 100 miles at 13c Kwh though. That's the equivalent of ~1.2 gallons of regular at our local prices or ~82 mpg. I could see many drives into the country to a good BBQ or other restaurant in an EV at that cost/mile. :)
 
Yes, I knew this was the last year. I think it is too small to be a serious contender. If I was going to have a 3rd vehicle just for fun it would move higher on the list. I don't think it will make the final cut for an only vehicle (for me, we have her Acura also). The Escape PHEV keeps looking likely given the limited list of credit eligible choices. The ID.4 when they get the less expensive models out and the Tesla 3 and Mach-E possibly. And maybe either the Blazer or Equinox when information becomes available on them. Anything else is not in contention.

Or maybe I'll just get a nice upgraded content ICE vehicle. I do really like the idea of around ~28Kw per 100 miles at 13c Kwh though. That's the equivalent of ~1.2 gallons of regular at our local prices or ~82 mpg. I could see many drives into the country to a good BBQ or other restaurant in an EV at that cost/mile. :)

I’m saving about $14-$16/workday driving my Model Y vs my Raptor on my 52 mile commute. I figure it pays for a lunch out everyday or puts money in my pocket. It’s ridiculously cheap to drive at $0.09-$0.12/kWH.
 
Yes, I knew this was the last year. I think it is too small to be a serious contender. If I was going to have a 3rd vehicle just for fun it would move higher on the list. I don't think it will make the final cut for an only vehicle (for me, we have her Acura also). The Escape PHEV keeps looking likely given the limited list of credit eligible choices. The ID.4 when they get the less expensive models out and the Tesla 3 and Mach-E possibly. And maybe either the Blazer or Equinox when information becomes available on them. Anything else is not in contention.

Or maybe I'll just get a nice upgraded content ICE vehicle. I do really like the idea of around ~28Kw per 100 miles at 13c Kwh though. That's the equivalent of ~1.2 gallons of regular at our local prices or ~82 mpg. I could see many drives into the country to a good BBQ or other restaurant in an EV at that cost/mile. :)
You need to remember the battery pack depreciation is the, if not a, major cost of an EV, not just the charging cost.

Very interesting discussion, one I've been mulling recently. The idea of getting an electric vehicle of sorts--maybe not a full EV but a hybrid. We just completed a family visit trip of 300 miles, without interstates and only 1 medium sized city in route. Mostly small depressed towns to drive through. No chargers in sight, not much traffic either on this road in Western Oklahoma and Texas. An EV would not work.
It takes time for EV to go down market. Before Model 3, EV was considered either a carpool lane cheat code or an expensive toy. It is now a "cool" gadget instead of too expensive. One day in the future even homeless can afford a used EV and park it at the charging station at night to power his home.
 
My doctor owns a Volvo wagon as a DD, he was considering a EV to replace the Volvo, we talked about it for about 30 min and he came to the conclusion that after 8-10 years the car will probably need a 25K+ battery in a car worth less than 10K, no matter what he figured it didn't save a penny in the long run. He is keeping the Volvo and buying another ICE car.

If you dig a little deeper, you'll find plenty of research that suggests there are no real savings with EV's. Not in costs, not in carbon footprint.
 
I’m saving about $14-$16/workday driving my Model Y vs my Raptor on my 52 mile commute. I figure it pays for a lunch out everyday or puts money in my pocket. It’s ridiculously cheap to drive at $0.09-$0.12/kWH.

The off grid homes that use batteries always calculate the lifetime KWh cost of the batteries themselves. We should do that for cars. As the batteries do have a lifespan. The home guys are typically in the 11c per KWh range. Tesla has got the battery tech dialed in, and I'm quite convinced Tesla's battery cost is about 7c per KWh delivered. (not KWh purchased, there are losses)

That's good to know, as it can be added into the cost per mile metric.

As always these low KWh costs quoted are often in error. Remember you purchase more power than the battery delivers. And don't forget taxes/fees on the power. It is not a gas tank where 10 gallons purchased provides 10 gallons to the engine. The charger is 90% efficient, and some heat is lost charging the battery, along with during discharge. Losses are on the order of 13 to 30%, depending largely on temperature.
 
What's the cost per mile for a typical EV. Any concrete examples we can look at?

The best example is this:

Ford F150 lightning. 2 miles per KWh. 50c per KWh purchased at highway charging stations. That's a touch over 25c per mile when we include the losses. Remember, you purchase more power than the battery delivers.
 
The best example is this:

Ford F150 lightning. 2 miles per KWh. 50c per KWh purchased at highway charging stations. That's a touch over 25c per mile when we include the losses. Remember, you purchase more power than the battery delivers.
Is a F150 lightning considered a typical EV?
 
I think I'm leaning toward an Escape PHEV. My typical day is under 10 miles so it would run just on the EV side. I could easily recharge at home, likely even on 110v. But I'd be able to drive literally cross country with only stops for gasoline if desired. But anything under $50k is fair game. I'm partial to an SUV or something with a higher roofline, easier ingress/egress.

As a PHEV owner I think they’re great. Not Escape but same concept.

However after 3 months I already am selling my truck and wish my PHEV was a “real” EV. Gas is annoying.

The Bolt is a great little car. And EUV is surprisingly spacious.
 
What's the cost per mile for a typical EV. Any concrete examples we can look at?
It depends on battery life, and we don't know how long the battery will last, or the "threshold" of the owner. For example, if you drive 20 miles per day, tops, then maybe 50% battery degradation wouldn't really bother you, functionally. However, if you drive 120 miles tops, it would absolutely deadline the car for you.
 
The best example is this:

Ford F150 lightning. 2 miles per KWh. 50c per KWh purchased at highway charging stations. That's a touch over 25c per mile when we include the losses. Remember, you purchase more power than the battery delivers.
Weird. The least efficient one after the Hummer EV. Typical huh?
 
What's the cost per mile for a typical EV. Any concrete examples we can look at?

Fuel costs:
If you charge your EV at a Supercharger at peak times you are paying the max.
If you charge your EV at work for subsidized or even free it's less expensive.
If you charge your EV at home it is pretty cheap, especially if you charge off peak.
If you charge your EV at home with solar panels is can be really cheap or even pretty much free.

I will drive close to 200 miles today. I charged at home powered by solar panels. My guess is most owners charge at home most of the time at whatever rate they fall under. CA energy is pretty high across the board!
It depends on your use case. YRMV...
 
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What's the cost per mile for a typical EV. Any concrete examples we can look at?
For me my flat $0.13kwh power charge at home my smaller GTI costs 4 times as much per mile to drive than my Model 3 just looking at fuel cost, not even considering servicing costs. The more I consider my options with that information the less likely I am to buy another non EV, not to mention the Model 3 Performance is still cheaper than one of the cars I was considering buying.
 
The off grid homes that use batteries always calculate the lifetime KWh cost of the batteries themselves. We should do that for cars. As the batteries do have a lifespan. The home guys are typically in the 11c per KWh range. Tesla has got the battery tech dialed in, and I'm quite convinced Tesla's battery cost is about 7c per KWh delivered. (not KWh purchased, there are losses)

That's good to know, as it can be added into the cost per mile metric.

As always these low KWh costs quoted are often in error. Remember you purchase more power than the battery delivers. And don't forget taxes/fees on the power. It is not a gas tank where 10 gallons purchased provides 10 gallons to the engine. The charger is 90% efficient, and some heat is lost charging the battery, along with during discharge. Losses are on the order of 13 to 30%, depending largely on temperature.

If the app says 20KWh added during the last charge, that’s what I paid for, right? My $0.09 to $0.12 per KWh is after taxes, delivery etc, that’s my electric bill divided by the number of KWhs.

I’m not too concerned about the battery’s cost per mile driven. I’ve bought the car, maybe it needs a $15,000+ battery in year 13 at 300,000 miles or something. I likely won’t own it and the market will dictate what I’m able to sell or trade it in for. I don’t think it’s much different than possibly needing an engine or transmission in a traditional vehicle at some point in its lifespan. That doesn’t even account for oil changes and other maintenance that is mostly unnecessary in an EV.
 
If the app says 20KWh added during the last charge, that’s what I paid for, right? My $0.09 to $0.12 per KWh is after taxes, delivery etc, that’s my electric bill divided by the number of KWhs.

I’m not too concerned about the battery’s cost per mile driven. I’ve bought the car, maybe it needs a $15,000+ battery in year 13 at 300,000 miles or something. I likely won’t own it and the market will dictate what I’m able to sell or trade it in for. I don’t think it’s much different than possibly needing an engine or transmission in a traditional vehicle at some point in its lifespan. That doesn’t even account for oil changes and other maintenance that is mostly unnecessary in an EV.
For the most part, yes you can do the math out to see what it cost you for that charging session. There are some small losses when charging, especially if it's cold and the battery needs warmed for charging.
 
I’m not too concerned about the battery’s cost per mile driven. I’ve bought the car, maybe it needs a $15,000+ battery in year 13 at 300,000 miles or something. I likely won’t own it and the market will dictate what I’m able to sell or trade it in for.
I suspect that most people purchasing EVs at this time don't plan on keeping them longer than 3-5 years, or whenever the lease or loan is done. Plus, keep in mind that we are still in the early days of EVs. In 3-5 years there will be many more options and advances, including charging infrastructure. The people, like myself, that will get screwed down the road are those who purchase well used cars and then drive them for many more miles. Whereas I pretty much know what I am getting with an old ICE vehicle I have no idea what something like a Bolt will be like when it is ten or more years old, and it would be disappointing to only be able to purchase vehicles that are hobbled by range problems with a looming huge bill for a new battery, if they are even replaceable at that point. My current fleet of ICE vehicles are all 17 years old.
 
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