To (All) the Colleges That Rejected Me

[Mr Nice]

Astro14,

Didn't you also know a person with very high academic achievements and applied to be an Officer in the Navy reserve and wasn't selected ?

Sometimes you don't always get what you want...
and that applies to many things in life.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
I disagree PandaBear. It does not take fraudulent applications, obscure extracurricular activities, slickness or tricks to get into a good school.

It requires exceptional performance.

Unfortunately, every kid gets a trophy now, no matter how well they do, so they all think they're exceptional...when, by definition, only 1 kid in 100 is exceptional...

I'll give you an example of an exceptional high school student:
- National Merit finalist (by definition, 99.5 percentile)
- Great SAT and ACT scores (99th percentile in all)
- All AP classes, including Physics, Bio and Chemistry.
- Straight A average
- Valedictorian
- 1st chair flute in the Youth Orchestra
- Saxophone player in the H.S. Jazz band, Flute player in the H.S. band
- Varsity Field Hockey player
- Volunteer firefighter.

To do all that, to finish a full day of classes (no study periods because of band practice and science labs), go to Field Hockey practice, jazz band practice (or whatever was on for that day) grab dinner, go to firefighting practice (or call), and then do her homework, she would start on homework at 10:00 PM and work until it was done, often at 02:00 AM and then get up for the school bus the next morning and start the grind over again. Sleep was made up on Saturday morning, then homework on Saturday afternoon, homework on Sunday morning, Orchestra Practice on Sunday, Homework on Sunday night. She worked harder than anyone else in her class. She has talent, sure, and is very smart, but don't discount the work, the real thing that made her exceptional.

She is currently a sophomore at Yale.

No tricks, no fraud, no slickness (the interviewers see right through that) and no weird extracurricular activities. Just genuine drive to achieve excellence, rewarded with admission to schools like MIT and Yale.



And as extremely impressive as that all is, it sounds like a pretty un-fun life. I'll be honest, I'd rather get good, not great, grades, play in the school band, hang out with my mates or play video games, and enjoy my life. I want to enjoy my life, and if I was doing that, I don't think I would enjoy very much at all.

Maybe that's me though. I worked hard in high school, but 24/7 hard. I graduated with an 86 GPA because I slacked off a bit more than I should have with homework sometimes. I played in the HS Band, and took electives, and kept a study hall. I was in the technology club, which basically spent our days playing video games and messing around with C++, making "clappers", and other stuff like that.

I'm taking online classes now to finish my associates degree, and try to find a better job. But to be honest, I'd rather have a job I like that pays less, and have free time to enjoy life. I don't want to one day wake up when I'm 75 years old and my life is almost over and realize I didn't enjoy it, and that I regret that I didn't hang out with my friends more, and do more irrelevant stuff like 4 wheeling or skiing, or playing video games.

I only have one life to live, and I want to enjoy it.

 

[UncleS2]

Female? College/University in the USA?

Title IX.

 

[Mr Nice]

Nick,

What career field do you want to get into ?

 

[LeakySeals]

My 19yo son is working 35 hrs a week and attending community college. All he does is sleep, eat, work, study. His job stinks but it pays for the car, gas, and some party money. Working hard at a low paying lousy job creates character and makes him appreciate college. Want a better job with more money? Study or get used to being poor. I will pay for a state school transfer and help get him get in as an intern somewhere but first I want to see how he handles current job and community college. The goal is to have a degree and a work history by 23. Then he's free to do what he wants. Hopefully the pain he's suffering now will make a full time job seem like a vacation. Its tough love but the world is tough.

 

[hattaresguy]

That's a hilarious article, so true as well!


I did "extracurricular" clubs in HS.

Sailing club
Fishing club
Ski club
FFA(got me out of class)

That's about it, not much of a people person, and I don't do sports. Running around a field? Not unless someone is chasing me and I'm out of bullets!

The best thing I ever did was not go to my first choice school that would have cost me $40k a year and instead went to a state school that cost under $10k.

I invested the difference in RE, and it paid off better than any job I could have gotten from that school.

Honestly I never gave a [censored] about school, never had time for it.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Astro14,

Didn't you also know a person with very high academic achievements and applied to be an Officer in the Navy reserve and wasn't selected ?

Sometimes you don't always get what you want...
and that applies to many things in life.



That's very true, you have an impressive memory - she had all the tickets and wasn't selected for the Navy Reserve as a direct commission intelligence officer.

She is now in grad school at Stanford.

So, while what you say is true...you don't always get what you want...she's doing OK...her work has paid off, though not in the way that she might have chosen...Stanford isn't a bad "Plan B"...

 

[Astro14]

Well Nick - I left out some details...she skied as her winter sport from 5th grade through senior year, twice a week....

I went skiing with her two weeks ago...and I think that she would tell you that her life is fun...and she does do fun stuff, like skiing, and other recreational activities...

I believe that the satisfaction of her achievements to date, of making progress towards her goal of being a doctor, as well as volunteering her time, playing in an orchestra, are more deeply satisfying than the short term fix that "fun" implies...

There's a place in the balance of life for "fun"...for goofing off...but just having "fun" doesn't lead to long term satisfaction or happiness...striving for something great, being part of something larger than yourself, serving others, these pursuits are, IMHO, more deeply gratifying than fun...

 

[doitmyself]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
There's a place in the balance of life for "fun"...for goofing off...but just having "fun" doesn't lead to long term satisfaction or happiness...[/b]


Both Nick and you bring an important point into the discussion. Balance. I work at a university and I have seen people similar to who Atro14 describes crash and burn because of the wrong motives (i.e.-parental pressure).


Quote:
striving for something great, being part of something larger than yourself, serving others, these pursuits are, IMHO, more deeply gratifying than fun...


There are gifted people at all levels of society. This definition of success is applicable to a plumber, a loving mother/wife/home maker, as well as a Rhodes Scholar.

And, I imagine that some people are completely happy throughout their lives without seeking deep gratification. Who are we to judge or impose our values on others?

 

[csx7006]

I earned my degree in the school of hard knocks in Helmand and Farah Province, Afghanistan in 2008-2009 with 3/8. Does that count?

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: bepperb
That's how out of touch today's youth are. Their parents have brainwashed them so thoroughly they think people actually care about their karate and swim team. Now they think if they don't get enough of those participant ribbons people even care about that.

To be honest I don't ever recall a hobbies section in any of my applications. I do remember a section for GPA, and my ACT, then GMAT score though.


Out of touch????!? Im getting further and further away from my 10th HS reunion everyday, but it was no different when I was going to school. "Well rounded" was the mantra, but even then, there were elements that were being looked at closer than others. The diversity bit was being swooned over, to the point that bigger scholarships were given to people with poorer grades and scores in its interest.

While I agree that lots of kids expect a lot and think they are a lot better and with it than they are, but the issues discussed are actually due to their parents' generation, who have slammed this garbage down their throats to make their profit. Who is spending hundreds of millions of dollars building excessively fancy college campuses, blowing college costs sky high, and giving the "advice" on how to get in, in order to sell classes, courses, books, and get cheap/free labor in an overblown "position"?

And let's not forget the practical aspect that not everybody will be a valedictorian or go to Africa on every spring break. Some kids arent lazy, but may not want to give every waking hour to a retail wage slave job, heck, my parents forbid it - so I went and figured out how to do my own business that paid me $20/hr on average (in the late 1990s no less), which they allowed... And left me with plenty of time to do varsity sports, excel in school, and enjoy friend and family time to a high level.

In college, my parents didnt want me to have a job, they paid my bills, but all I got was a meal plan in the dining hall (no lattes, no take out, no waste) and an expectation to excel in my studies as a result. I was in a top 10 program and made it through. I was also a college athlete... Because I wasnt involved in some two-bit wage slave job and had support.

I was very fortunate, but I also was entrepreneurial and kept the budget low - no expectation to do anything "special" that the world says I deserve.

I feel for this girl because she is fed a pile of trash, and even moreso because some call it whining when really it is the reality of the garbage piled upon the kids today.

And as I currently fund a LOT of university research, Ill say one thing for sure - most of the successful, dynamic work is done by SMART people, not the overly organized, overly paper achievement-focused people that meet more brainless metrics that check more boxes in the University selection process. Its amazing how poorly some of the folks with the best "stats" perform, or even if they do perform, how out of tough they are with anything practical.

Yet the propagating metric is all this junk that might add some roundedness, but really doesnt do a whole lot of anything for anyone besides give them a superiority complex (BTDT, just stupid) with a bunch of high brow imbeciles who in the end are just as juvenile, and practically speaking as stupid as the rest.

Not everyone is a Harvard man (other than for rowing, I wouldnt have wanted to be one anyway, their program was inferior), but the aspects being discussed are propagating everywhere. To the harm of well-meaning students in the interest even of foreigners and others with poorer stats. The "selectivity" is out of hand to some extent in terms of the hoops and the silly metrics that are being looked for...

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Originally Posted By: Astro14
There's a place in the balance of life for "fun"...for goofing off...but just having "fun" doesn't lead to long term satisfaction or happiness...[/b]


Both Nick and you bring an important point into the discussion. Balance. I work at a university and I have seen people similar to who Atro14 describes crash and burn because of the wrong motives (i.e.-parental pressure).


Quote:
striving for something great, being part of something larger than yourself, serving others, these pursuits are, IMHO, more deeply gratifying than fun...


There are gifted people at all levels of society. This definition of success is applicable to a plumber, a loving mother/wife/home maker, as well as a Rhodes Scholar.

And, I imagine that some people are completely happy throughout their lives without seeking deep gratification. Who are we to judge or impose our values on others?




Well said.

 

[MBS500]

Originally Posted By: Gabe
FASFA is what annoyed me. Just because my parents make a lot of money doesn't mean they are giving it to me. It wasn't until graduate school that I was able to afford a full meal plan.
that made me mad too. Anyway, for past 2 years my work reimbursing me if As or [censored].

 

[tom slick]

Go to community college and get decent grades. Transfer as a junior and you've skipped all of the freshman admission requirements, saved a ton of money, and grown up a little. When you graduate with decent grades NOBODY cares where you spent your freshman and sophomore years.
That's how you get into a school that rejects 90% of applicants and doesn't even look at freshman applicants with less than a 3.7 GPA in High School.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
My 19yo son is working 35 hrs a week and attending community college. All he does is sleep, eat, work, study. His job stinks but it pays for the car, gas, and some party money. Working hard at a low paying lousy job creates character and makes him appreciate college. Want a better job with more money? Study or get used to being poor. I will pay for a state school transfer and help get him get in as an intern somewhere but first I want to see how he handles current job and community college. The goal is to have a degree and a work history by 23. Then he's free to do what he wants. Hopefully the pain he's suffering now will make a full time job seem like a vacation. Its tough love but the world is tough.


Right on LeakySeals! You sound like an awesome parent :^) Keep up the good work. Too bad more parents aren`t like you.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: MBS500
Originally Posted By: Gabe
FASFA is what annoyed me. Just because my parents make a lot of money doesn't mean they are giving it to me. It wasn't until graduate school that I was able to afford a full meal plan.
that made me mad too. Anyway, for past 2 years my work reimbursing me if As or [censored].


Yeah went through that too. My parents made enough, not a spectacular income, but enough that it was my scholarships (for real scholarly activity, not stupid athletic scholarships) that offset cost. Fortunately they always lived far below their means and footed the bill. Im eternally grateful, my wife had to incur loans.

And note that I get belittled for my anti-debt and living below means standing, despite being one of those horrid people who had things paid for and didnt have a job in college. What gives?

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
LOL, it all boils down to the ACT/SAT scores. I noticed that when my kid went through the process. I'm still learning how the US education works.


Nope, these tests are so watered down for "fairness" that everyone that isn't near perfect is not considered.

As someone who lives in the "tiger mom capital" of USA, I can say that what she mentioned is real. You have to prep since kindergarten if you want to get in. There are "prep" institute out there that lead you the way with retired Ivy league recruiters on board ($$$), and of course having a dad in the old boy club connection and lots of "charity donation" helps you get pass all the [censored] that us mortal has to go through.

I'm sure she's half joking about the extracurricular activities. I remember reading an article (as homework assignment in college writing class) 10+ years ago about all the obsolete thinking about musical instrument is no longer useful because everyone is doing it. Now it is about consistency of charity work and community services. Just 1 or 2 trips to Africa with photos doesn't help anymore. I once carpool with a guy who spend 1 to 2 years teaching in the Amazon Jungle, and he go in with just very average grade. If I remember right they reserve certain percentage of admission budget for different groups of students, from "Genius" to "Charity Queens" to "Old Money". Jack of all trade master of none needs not apply.


I'm not sure if we are comparing apples to oranges, but my daughter just recently went through an early admission process and applied to 6-8 state universities nearby. She was accepted and got scholarship in every each of them. They only asked for GPA and ACT. Her numbers were fairly high but not max.

Now, if you are talking ivy league, it could be different, but I believe ivy league schools are for snobs.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: tom slick
Go to community college and get decent grades. Transfer as a junior and you've skipped all of the freshman admission requirements, saved a ton of money, and grown up a little. When you graduate with decent grades NOBODY cares where you spent your freshman and sophomore years.
That's how you get into a school that rejects 90% of applicants and doesn't even look at freshman applicants with less than a 3.7 GPA in High School.



Depends upon the major. If youre going in for history, business, psychology or some such thing, sure. Others that have a more distinct and building curriculum, for example every engineering program Ive dealt with (literally a hundred from all over the country) are set up so that if youre not in the right classes from day one, youre guaranteed a five year tenure. Nothing saved.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: PandaBear


Nope, these tests are so watered down for "fairness" that everyone that isn't near perfect is not considered.

As someone who lives in the "tiger mom capital" of USA, I can say that what she mentioned is real. You have to prep since kindergarten if you want to get in. There are "prep" institute out there that lead you the way with retired Ivy league recruiters on board ($$$), and of course having a dad in the old boy club connection and lots of "charity donation" helps you get pass all the [censored] that us mortal has to go through.



I'm not sure if we are comparing apples to oranges, but my daughter just recently went through an early admission process and applied to 6-8 state universities nearby. She was accepted and got scholarship in every each of them. They only asked for GPA and ACT. Her numbers were fairly high but not max.

Now, if you are talking ivy league, it could be different, but I believe ivy league schools are for snobs.


State schools tend to be more lenient to nearby kids than out of staters, who actually pay a lot of the university's budget. Not stating that as an implication of your daughter's abilities in any way, just a fact - by charter and design, they should be pushing to admit the locals with good grades and status. Early admission to a state school in the same state is the optimal way to work the admissions process IMO. Good for her.

I suspect it is also a billeted thing, with assignments to the desired demographics of the incoming students.

 

[daves87rs]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Originally Posted By: Astro14
There's a place in the balance of life for "fun"...for goofing off...but just having "fun" doesn't lead to long term satisfaction or happiness...[/b]


Both Nick and you bring an important point into the discussion. Balance. I work at a university and I have seen people similar to who Atro14 describes crash and burn because of the wrong motives (i.e.-parental pressure).


Quote:
striving for something great, being part of something larger than yourself, serving others, these pursuits are, IMHO, more deeply gratifying than fun...


There are gifted people at all levels of society. This definition of success is applicable to a plumber, a loving mother/wife/home maker, as well as a Rhodes Scholar.

And, I imagine that some people are completely happy throughout their lives without seeking deep gratification. Who are we to judge or impose our values on others?





So very true...