Tires will not stay in balance?

[4WD]

The Eagle GT’s on our 2017 Mustang don’t even vibrate at 90 MPH

 

[4WD]

2020 Ram 1500, currently at 10K miles. Tires are OE Goodyear Fortitude HT, 275/65-18. Wheels are OE.

For the first 4K miles there was no vibration at any speed, even up to 95 mph.

Starting at 5K, I noticed a light vibration when cruising at speeds above 80 mph.

At 6K, I performed Costco to perform a Rotate & Balance. The vibration was mostly resolved, but not perfect. The tech said each tire was out of balance by 1.00-1.50oz.

By 8K, the vibration returned and was very noticeable at speeds above 75 mph.

Earlier today, at 10K, I paid America’s Tire to road force balance the tires. Measurements were 9, 11, 14 and 18...which is within spec. However, again, every tire was 1.5-2oz out of balance. I have not driven the truck on the highway after the work was completed.

My question:

All tires appear to be wearing evenly and have 12/32” remaining. Why do these tires require constant rebalancing? I have not lost any weights.

Wonder if the worst tire does not cause this … ran into that on a GMC a few years back … it was a General

 

[mightymousetech]

Belts don't shift!!

But silicone will cause a tire to slip on the rim - and it's hard to get the rim clean after that.

Thank you! It bothers me when people say “shifted belts”, they are encased in rubber, they are not going anywhere.

The belts CAN get bent from a pothole impact. A steel belt is dozens of strands of metal wire. Think of a coat hanger. If you bend a coat hanger, try and make it straight again.

 

[CapriRacer]

A quick search on "Goodyear tires belts slip shift" turned up lots of results.

I don't know what the correct technical term is, but the majority of the Goodyear tires I used to buy caused front end shimmy, which was not corrected by rebalancing. Something had gone wrong with the tires themselves. I also had this problem with my one set of Michelin winter tires.

My several sets of Nokians, and my one set of Pirellis, have not given me any problems.

When I had my last set of Goodyear tires road-force balanced at Winnipeg Wheel, the tech said the one tire could be not be balanced because the "belts had shifted".

I'm sorry, but I spent a lot of time chasing down "Shifted belts" or "Slipped Belts". The only thing I ever found was silicone on the beads - BUT - I've tested many supposed examples of these tires and they tested fine. I couldn't tell you what the problem was but it wasn't that the tire somehow changed in the short term after it was manufactured.

In the long term, yes, but those were tires that had irregular wear and you could see the change in uniformity.

But the term is so widely misused by those who don't know better that it doesn't surprise me that a Google search turns up lots of hits.

In this particular case, I am puzzled by the balance weight situation. That doesn't fly with what I know about how tires work - except for the tire slipping on the rim.

 

[MParr]

@CapriRacer
I have an idea of what’s going on. I think it’s the people attempting to balance them. Like I said, my first trip would have been to the Ram dealership and have them look at it. I’ve had my fair share of dealing with jack-legged tire techs.
Just to let everyone know, that particular Goodyear Fortitude H/T carries a “T” speed rating.
UTQG = 680/A/B

 

[DuckRyder]

Also, on the road force numbers.

I've always been unsuccessful in getting "specs" out of tire manufacturers, though the machines have limits set, I'm not sure who sets them because they don't seem the same... Certain platforms might be more sensitive than others and 25 might be fine on one thing and horrible on another. I might take another look at the 18 if this is a sensitive platform. Normally I would say those numbers no concern on a truck.

The water thing could have merit too, I once worked on a Daihatsu that they couldn't stop from vibrating and the tires would never spin up the same numbers, they had about a pint or two of water in each one. No one outside of a factory had heard about a road force balancer back then AFAIK though.

 

[4WD]

I think tire balancing is like the veteran fighter pilot who takes out the fancy new plane …
Both my big town DT and our small town Goodyear have shiny new machines … but my 30 year veteran on his new Hunter(s) has done 3 sets behind DT over the last 5 years … Then he goes for a test drive … maybe it’s time to calculate cost of ownership …

 

[SubLGT]

Earlier today, at 10K, I paid America’s Tire to road force balance the tires. Measurements were 9, 11, 14 and 18...which is within spec

If you put the "9" and "11" tires at the front of the vehicle, does the vibration disappear ?

 

[SubLGT]

I’d consider marking the tire in reference to a fixed point on the wheel such as the valve stem to see if they are slipping on the wheel.

^ This.

 

[Slick3914]

They're Goodyears

 

[Greasymechtech]

Run outs on all rims and tires need to be checked

Time for some bead locks

 

[The Critic]

Where are the balance weights put? On the edge of the rim, or only on the inside edge and behind the spokes or even near the center line for the outside edge?

In my experience, on the outside edges or as close to them as possible has the highest chance of success to cure shimmy completely. If the ET is off, the shimmy effects get worse, the wheels factory fit but no spacers?

Also, are these clip weights or taped weights?

Stick-on weights nearest the back-side of the spoke, clip-on weights on the inside lip.

I’d consider marking the tire in reference to a fixed point on the wheel such as the valve stem to see if they are slipping on the wheel.

Not a bad idea.

Take it back to the dealership and have them check the balance. Many jack-leg tire shops are in the business to sell tires or up sell other services. Costco, Walmart and the likes don’t have the most dedicated employees in their TLE departments. Your dealership is qualified and can get your tire situation ironed out. The dealership would have been my first stop.

The dealer offered to diag the concern under warranty, but required me to test drive with their diag tech M-F and it is impossible to duplicate 80 mph speeds (on the section of highway that is nearest the dealership).

though I would tend to doubt it on factory assemblies, it’s not at all unheard of if too much mounting lubricant is used. Braking In particular can cause significant torque. I’m not saying it’s probable, but it’s worth checking on a problem vehicle.

Belts don't shift!!

But silicone will cause a tire to slip on the rim - and it's hard to get the rim clean after that.

The truck was built in 3/20. Wouldn't any bead lube be long-gone by now?

Sorry if I missed it but is this only at 75mph and up? I've got the 17's on my 2019 classic and may hit 75mph, with my driving, but rarely more.
That's an odd one if it keeps happening. I follow a busy Ram forum and people complain about the OEM goodyears all the time, but I'm not sure I've read of this balancing issue, or many issues at all on the 18" on the latest generation 1500s.

The 17" GY Wrangler SR-As were decent on my 2017 and 2019.

It is only noticeable at speeds about 80 mph. If it is a very smooth road, then 75+.

There does seem to be a number of complaints regarding high-speed vibration on the Gen 5 trucks:

Slight Vibration

Update on my case: After 5 trips to the dealer and getting FCA (Ram Cares) involved, I think it might finally be resolved. They replaced all four tires and two wheels (rims) through multiple visits. I feel very strongly that there is a quality control issue with wheels and tires at the factory...

5thgenrams.com

Thank you! It bothers me when people say “shifted belts”, they are encased in rubber, they are not going anywhere.

The belts CAN get bent from a pothole impact. A steel belt is dozens of strands of metal wire. Think of a coat hanger. If you bend a coat hanger, try and make it straight again.

Some of the tires have a slight "ripple look" on the sidewall. The Pirelli's on the Accord have the same appearance but do not have any vibration issues.

Is this a cause for concern?

If you put the "9" and "11" tires at the front of the vehicle, does the vibration disappear ?

I have not driven the truck since the tires were balanced last night, but I will soon. As it currently stands, the LF is 9 lbs and the RF is 18 lbs.

Run outs on all rims and tires need to be checked

Time for some bead locks

I don't think rim runout is an issue with the current road force values.

 

[SubLGT]

I have not driven the truck since the tires were balanced last night, but I will soon. As it currently stands, the LF is 9 lbs and the RF is 18 lbs.

That RF could be a problem, even on a heavy pickup.

 

[MParr]

That RF could be a problem, even on a heavy pickup.

Agree

 

[ammolab]

An out of round tire or wheel will be discovered during road force balancing and will give unsatisfactory numbers.

”If” the operator knows the machine & what he is doing.

 

[Traction]

I ran into this issue yesterday on my RF balancer, and had no idea what to do? It balanced fine, but seemed to have multiple high/low spots on the tires. The guy thought he had got a great deal on some Federal tires for his C6 Corvette, and I could only tell him they were not the roundest tires I've seen, and give them a try.

 

[krzyss]

54lb!!!

It will shake the Corvette to pieces!

Krzys

 

[The Critic]

Update:

I went for a long drive today and was able to drive for extended periods at speeds above 80 mph. Rebalancing the tires appears to have resolved the issue...for now.

I will update the thread if/when the issue returns.

 

[CapriRacer]

I ran into this issue yesterday on my RF balancer, and had no idea what to do? It balanced fine, but seemed to have multiple high/low spots on the tires. The guy thought he had got a great deal on some Federal tires for his C6 Corvette, and I could only tell him they were not the roundest tires I've seen, and give them a try.

Agreed! 54 pounds - Wow!!

You did what you could do. You informed the customer of the problem and that you couldn't fix it. The next step is up to him.

 

[CapriRacer]

Update:

I went for a long drive today and was able to drive for extended periods at speeds above 80 mph. Rebalancing the tires appears to have resolved the issue...for now.

I will update the thread if/when the issue returns.

I hope you marked the tire relative to the wheel. If I am right on this, it was the wheel moving relative to the tire. That would cause the assembly to initially be OK, then later go out of balance, but not appreciably affect the RoadForce.