Tires Mounted Backwards (Inside Out)

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I do see difference between inside and outside design in OP pictures. Tires are dirty and it is not helping.

Correctly mounted tire, front, shows large tread blocks, that are designed to help with cornering, on the outside.
Improperly mounted tire, rear, shows smaller tread blocks, that are designed to help with water evacuation, on the outside. By desgin they are supposed to be inside.

Will it kill operator? Not instantly.
May it cause problems during emergency, in wet/snow braking? Maybe.

Would you like to be defending the mechanic who did this and refused to fix it in the court?

KrzyÅ›
 
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by tony1679
The manufacturer designed the tread this way for a reason. Let's assume the reason is for cornering grip. The outer section of tread on the left side of that tire is far wider than the section of tread on the right side. If this tire is mounted on the LF of a vehicle and a hard right turn at high speed is made, I know I wouldn't want to have the right side of the tire on the outside face of the LF......

I understand the point you are trying to make. With that said, look at the photos of the OP's tire tread. They look identical across the entire tread pattern. If there is any difference in the tread from "INSIDE" to "OUTSIDE", it is hardly, if at all distinguishable. So in his case, how much difference can it possibly make? Especially from any kind of safety standpoint.

Per your link:

"Asymmetric Tread Patterns: An asymmetric tread pattern usually incorporates larger tread ribs/blocks on the outboard side to increase cornering stability on dry roads by offering greater contact area."

This hardly seems to be the case with the OP's tires, regardless of how they are marked. Also, when you posted the below quote, I thought you were referring to direction. Which is why I pressed the issue. And thank you for being polite. Unlike some here.
Originally Posted by tony1679
Oh I've thought about it. It won't be reversed. You are completely misunderstood here.


Here is an example where it better proves your point as opposed to the OP's tires.




I have to disagree here. We didn't get a good image of the entire tread pattern. Besides, even if a tire is symmetrical and has a non-directional tread design, how can you tell whether or not the manufacturer used a different tread compound on the inside or outside of the tire. Yes, I can partially agree with you on the safety aspect. It will not be life-threatening in most cases. But that one time it is, that sure would be a stupid reason. Just follow directions, uh, instructions...

... And those images will further confuse everyone. The left tire is directional and appears slightly asymmetric, the right tire asymmetric.
 
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I'm sure the manufacturer put the huge inside and outside lettering on the tires just because they thought it looked cool.
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The tires are asymmetric (and yes, they appear to be a CS5 Ultra Touring tire). The inside and outside tread is clearly different.

And its clear from at least one poster here how this kind of thing keeps happening at tire shops. Folks who confuse different types of issues/designs and insist they are right even when the evidence they aren't is simply written on the tire. How much simpler can the manufacturer make it?

While it may not be a deathtrap when mounted incorrectly, if I paid for the tires, I'd want them installed as intended to take full advantage of the design as intended.
 
The outside shoulder, intermediate, and center rows in the Cooper CS5 Ultra Touring have 56 tread blocks around the circumference and minimal siping. Additionally, the outside intermediate blocks are all tied together to further increase stiffness for handling. The inside shoulder and intermediate rows have 72 tread blocks and more siping for all season performance.

This type of pattern is a 'true' asymmetric, where there is more rubber on the outside half of the tire than on the inside half and the tread blocks have different stiffness from one side to the other. The tread compound is the same across both sides. The tires should be mounted with the outside facing out as indicated.

It sounds like the first shop's level of knowledge is below average or they didn't want to take responsibility for their mistake, or both. Glad you got it sorted out and I hope you enjoy your new tires! Let us know how they perform.

The second shop was being a bit dramatic if they told you "how dangerous it could be." There aren't any tire manufacturers who would produce a product that would be dangerous if it was accidentally mounted in the wrong direction or even inside out, or both in the case of very uncommon asymmetric directional tires. They may not provide the optimum intended performance, but they aren't going to be dangerous.
 
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One of the first truly asymmetric high performance tires, Yokohama A008. That solid rib on the outside of the tire has no space for water evacuation, and absolutely belongs on the outside ... where it provides more grip and equally importantly, stability to the tread block.


To the poster who seems to keep saying it doesn't matter ... it does.


[Linked Image]
 
I bet if you had bought the tires from him he wouldn't have given you a hassle.... As for the 'inside' or 'outside' markings, you probably will get better traction when mounted the way the tire maker specs but having them flipped isn't going to be an accident waiting to happen.

Originally Posted by 92saturnsl2
My only option at this point would be to escalate things to an uncomfortable level, perhaps threaten legal action...
Legal action ? Haha !! Who do report this to ?
 
Originally Posted by jjjxlr8
The second shop was being a bit dramatic if they told you "how dangerous it could be." There aren't any tire manufacturers who would produce a product that would be dangerous if it was accidentally mounted in the wrong direction or even inside out, or both in the case of very uncommon asymmetric directional tires. They may not provide the optimum intended performance, but they aren't going to be dangerous.

Agree 100%.
 
[Linked Image]


I once told my mom and pop tire shop to install my worn out asym tire inside out, they want me to pay cash with no paperwork, and explain to me verbally that it is against the rule. I said that's exactly the point (my car has some alignment issue from factory that will wear out the inner shoulder), so I can use the tires up instead of throwing them away early.

That's the right way to do business, not "inside out is bull crap", not "you have to pay more because we didn't make a mistake".

That mechanic should have his license revoked for running a shop like this.
 
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Wow this thread got entertaining in a hurry! Yes, the tires are Cooper Ultra Touring CS5 -- tread is very clearly asymmetrical, pretty significant difference between left and right side of the tread.

By no means do I believe this is an accident waiting to happen, but I can definitely see how it might contribute to one in certain conditions.. The bigger issue is $400 worth of tires mounted in a way that unquestionably hampers performance, possibly longevity and ride comfort, who knows what other variables. I would have bought the cheapest no-name Chinese tires I could find if I didn't care about how the tire performed.

Shop put it on wrong plain and simple. I don't think they were refusing to admit a mistake, I really believe the mechanic guy is not familiar with the mounting requirements of an asymmetric thread. Same type of misunderstanding of directional vs asymmetric that has shown up in this thread combined with a little too much ego and "I'm always right" attitude.
 
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
I bet if you had bought the tires from him he wouldn't have given you a hassle.... As for the 'inside' or 'outside' markings, you probably will get better traction when mounted the way the tire maker specs but having them flipped isn't going to be an accident waiting to happen.

Originally Posted by 92saturnsl2
My only option at this point would be to escalate things to an uncomfortable level, perhaps threaten legal action...
Legal action ? Haha !! Who do report this to ?


Depends on the state. It's pretty easy in this state. We have a consumer protection law against unfair and deceptive trade practices. You basically send them a 30 day demand letter asking for damages, in this case the amount paid when they were improperly installed. If they don't pay up in 30 days, you can take it to small claims court where they would be subject to up to triple damages plus attorney fees.

I know several attorneys who would dash off a letter for me for free, but you could probably find a template online.
 
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by 92saturnsl2
When I got home, I look the tires over just for grins and my eyes caught the word INSIDE facing the OUTSIDE of the vehicle. These tires are non-directional asymmetric tread, so while there is no certain direction of rotation (you can swap tires side to side) the tires are marked INSIDE and OUTSIDE and should be mounted as such because the inside and outside of the tread are different.............,

so I take the car to a different tire shop nearby for help. They tell me that they see this ALL THE TIME on cars that come in, even pointed out how dangerous it can be, especially in the case of directional tires............. SUPER glad I checked the tires over, because this is something that could easily be missed and driven for a long time in a potentially unsafe condition. Anyone else ever experience a tire mounted incorrectly?

Tires are either directional, or non directional. If they are directional they will by marked with a rotation arrow, showing which way they are supposed to rotate. Not, "INSIDE" / "OUTSIDE". Your tires are non directional. They can be safely mounted either way. This is done all the time with red striped and white lettered tires today. A lot of people do not want the white letters or the stripe showing. So the tire center will ask which way you want them mounted, facing in or out. They are also non directional, and it is NOT "dangerous" to do this. And many times the tread pattern is slightly different on these tires as well.

The tires you purchased can also be rotated in a criss cross pattern, with the left front rotated to the right rear. Again SAFELY. If the tires are directional, again with an arrow showing the direction they should rotate, they can only be rotated front to back, while remaining on the same side, so they rotate in the same direction.

Think about it. Tires like yours could be all mounted "correctly", with "OUTSIDE" showing on every tire. But if they were directional you would have an unsafe condition if you criss crossed them on rotation. That is why the ARROW is used to signify rotational direction, and not "INSIDE / OUTSIDE". The second tire center you went to, that said you had a, "dangerous condition", is giving you false information in regard to your tires. Because again, they are non directional. So no such, "dangerous condition" can be achieved by how they are mounted.

The original tire center that put them on for you was giving you the correct information. With that said, they treated you poorly about it, and have now lost your business because of it. This falls under the classic saying, "The customer is always right........ Even if he isn't". Had they been more polite, and offered to switch them around, they would still have you as a customer. Apparently they felt you weren't worth that effort. But it doesn't change the fact the second place who changed them for you, handed you incorrect information. They were just nicer about it.


You are wrong. No matter where on the car you put these tires the tread pattern for water distribution or curb grip will always be the same. If you put them on wrong the pattern of tred would be wrong and could be dangerous especially if it is designed to push water out. Put the tire on backwards and then water gets pushed in so hydroplaning is a real concern.
 
Quote
...Shop put it on wrong plain and simple. I don't think they were refusing to admit a mistake, I really believe the mechanic guy is not familiar with the mounting requirements of an asymmetric thread. Same type of misunderstanding of directional vs asymmetric that has shown up in this thread combined with a little too much ego and "I'm always right" attitude.....
"Mechanic guy". Using the term "mechanic" for this guy, gives the term a bad name and him wayyyy too much credit. While perhaps a nitpick, I think the more applicable term here is installer. And one that that has difficulty understanding the meaning of the words inside and outside, and why they are on the tire. Also imo, guy shouldn't be mounting and installing tires if he's not willing to "listen and learn" why those words are on the tire. So really "installer guy" was refusing to admit a mistake when it was pointed out and could be easily confirmed. Whether the installer could discern enough difference in tread pattern as reason for those words is irrelevant. And the owner/administrator passing the buck to installer guy is bogus and cowardly too. And has now cost them a customer. If a friend as mentioned, I'd say with friends like that don't need any enemies. My.02

As for the rotation, without getting into the "danger factor", once mounted properly (as designed) asymmetric tires can be rotated same as non directional tires. Otoh, directional tires can only be rotated same side front to back and vice versa.
 
Maybe this will help you understand, tiger862. On the right side of the vehicle, the asymmetric non-directional pattern is rolling in the opposite direction of the left side. This is one of the primary benefits of a non-directional tread pattern. When you cross-rotate your tires on the vehicle, the heal toe wear that naturally develops in any rolling tire with individual tread blocks can be reduced, resulting in less noise and more even wear for the life of the tire.

[Linked Image]
 
Originally Posted by billt460
look at the photos of the OP's tire tread. They look identical across the entire tread pattern. If there is any difference in the tread from "INSIDE" to "OUTSIDE", it is hardly, if at all distinguishable.

The extent to which it is "distinguishable" is subjective, but the difference is certainly there:

[Linked Image]



It doesn't cost any more to mount a tire like this correctly (with the word "OUTSIDE" on the outside), so why not do it? If it didn't matter, the word "OUTSIDE" wouldn't have been placed there.
 
Tires say inside and outside for a reason. Shop sounds sloppy, if they cant do a tire swap correctly that is pretty sad.

I think the main issue OP you have is that you called, they can easily blow you off on the phone. Much harder to do that in person.
Looks like the bridges are likely burned at the tire shop and Id likely never go back. Find another shop to install the tires correctly.


Some food for thought, since the inside and outside tire blocks are different and your car has a smidge of negative camber, the tires are not going to be loaded as the tire manufacture intended.

Quote
"FRONT WHEEL ALIGNMENT"

CAMBER
[PREFERRED:] -0.20°
[ACCEPTABLE:] -0.60° to +0.20°

https://www.chryslerforum.com/forum/chrysler-pacifica-15/alignment-specs-18252/
 
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I have enjoyed this thread very much. Not only does it illustrate how,people can confuse asymmetrical tires with directional tires, it also shows the depth of that misunderstanding and how folks can misidentify the affects.
 
Originally Posted by 92saturnsl2
Wow this thread got entertaining in a hurry! Yes, the tires are Cooper Ultra Touring CS5 -- tread is very clearly asymmetrical, pretty significant difference between left and right side of the tread.

By no means do I believe this is an accident waiting to happen, but I can definitely see how it might contribute to one in certain conditions.. The bigger issue is $400 worth of tires mounted in a way that unquestionably hampers performance, possibly longevity and ride comfort, who knows what other variables. I would have bought the cheapest no-name Chinese tires I could find if I didn't care about how the tire performed.

Shop put it on wrong plain and simple. I don't think they were refusing to admit a mistake, I really believe the mechanic guy is not familiar with the mounting requirements of an asymmetric thread. Same type of misunderstanding of directional vs asymmetric that has shown up in this thread combined with a little too much ego and "I'm always right" attitude.





When the driver of the car you hit (not related to your tire causing an accident) called a lawyer, I bet he will make a big deal out of it and the juries will agree (they are likely not tire expert except they see the words inside and outside).

The truth is, the truth doesn't matter, only the interpretation of it does.
 
Originally Posted by Sayjac
"Mechanic guy". Using the term "mechanic" for this guy, gives the term a bad name and him wayyyy too much credit. While perhaps a nitpick, I think the more applicable term here is installer. And one that that has difficulty understanding the meaning of the words inside and outside, and why they are on the tire. Also imo, guy shouldn't be mounting and installing tires if he's not willing to "listen and learn" why those words are on the tire. So really "installer guy" was refusing to admit a mistake when it was pointed out and could be easily confirmed. Whether the installer could discern enough difference in tread pattern as reason for those words is irrelevant. And the owner/administrator passing the buck to installer guy is bogus and cowardly too.


This happens in a lot of industries for a lot of people. Things like "I've been doing this for 25 years, I know what I'm doing", "Trust me, I am a doctor", "I went to Ivy League so I'm smart enough to know what I'm doing", "I'm 20 years older than you", "I taught your dad how to do this" are always there to cover up sloppiness, in every culture, every nation, every generation.

This is why I always take a grain of salt when people say "they don't build them like they used to" in the "good ole days".
 
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